once saved always saved saved is a doctrine of the devil

[brmicke]

Hi Tan - As with many unscriptural doctrines, this one (once saved always saved) is an unscriptural statement or concept. This misunderstanding is cleared up when the term "salvation" is scripturally defined. We as Christians are commanded to treat each other as we would treat Jesus himself. What we do to the least of His brethren we do to Jesus Himself, Matt 25:40. We don't injure or insult our brethren simply because they do not understand something.

God has shut up all of us under sin so that He can have mercy on all of us, Romans 11:32 and Gal 3:22. So we can see that all of us need to be saved.

We are all sinners who are being saved (from wrath) by God's grace, Eph 2:8.

Being saved means being saved from God's wrath, which is visited against ungodliness or sin, Romans 1:18.

This then infers that we have the option of being saved from the wrath visited against sin every time we are are presented with the choice of wether to sin or not.

Salvation from sin is only truly acheived when a person abstains from ungodliness (no longer sins, titus 2:11-12), and is conformed into the image of Christ.

We however, all come to Christ as sinners and none of us stops sinning immediately thereafter. The grace of God teaches us to abstain from ungodliness or sin, (titus 2:11-12). Thus the statement "by Grace are you saved".

So if we cooperate with the teaching or instruction of Gods grace we are being saved from wrath in that instance, but if we resist the grace of God in any particular instance and we continue to willfully sin we can expect to be judged and receive a just recompense from God, Heb 10:27.

Respectfully - Brian

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi Tan - As with many unscriptural doctrines, this one (once saved always saved) is an unscriptural statement or concept. This misunderstanding is cleared up when the term "salvation" is scripturally defined. We as Christians are commanded to treat each other as we would treat Jesus himself. What we do to the least of His brethren we do to Jesus Himself, Matt 25:40. We don't injure or insult our brethren simply because they do not understand something.

what has this to do with what salvation means? People who are not saved and do not even know God can do this. This makes no sense. As for OSAS being a false doctrine, your right, it would be settled if we knew what saved means. salvation means saved out of something, or saved from something. God tells us we are ALl condemned because of sin, It tells us we are ALL under sin, thus we are ALL under condemnation. If one would realise we are saved from gods wrath, saved from judgment, and saved from an eternity separated from god based SOLELY on the death of Christ, we would not be having this conversation.

God has shut up all of us under sin so that He can have mercy on all of us, Romans 11:32 and Gal 3:22. So we can see that all of us need to be saved.

We are all sinners who are being saved (from wrath) by God's grace, Eph 2:8.

Being saved means being saved from God's wrath, which is visited against ungodliness or sin, Romans 1:18.

This then infers that we have the option of being saved from the wrath visited against sin every time we are are presented with the choice of wether to sin or not.

Salvation from sin is only truly acheived when a person abstains from ungodliness (no longer sins, titus 2:11-12), and is conformed into the image of Christ.

We however, all come to Christ as sinners and none of us stops sinning immediately thereafter. The grace of God teaches us to abstain from ungodliness or sin, (titus 2:11-12). Thus the statement "by Grace are you saved".

So if we cooperate with the teaching or instruction of Gods grace we are being saved from wrath in that instance, but if we resist the grace of God in any particular instance and we continue to willfully sin we can expect to be judged and receive a just recompense from God, Heb 10:27.

Respectfully - Brian

he who says he has no sin is a liar and has been decieved. If you think you can be sinless on this world you do not Know God or what sin is. If you saw God today you would be appauled at the amount of sin you have in your life on a daily basis. We all break the 1st command endlessly every time we chose self over anything, which we do on a continual basis.

The problem with those who think we must earn salvation by being good. is they do not understand how truily sinfull they are. As paul said, What a wretched man I AM. Until we realise how truely wretched sinners we are, we will never understand saved by the grace of God, and understand eternal security is based on the promise of the spirit based on the blood of Christ (eph 1) and no based on how good or bad we are. because ONLY THEN can we realise on our best day we are totaly undeserving of eternal life.

 

[brmicke]

Brother - we are not sinfull simply because we exist. We are sinful because of what we choose to do, and the grace of God teaches sinners to abstain from sin. Sin is lawlessness or breaking the Law (Jesus summarized the law - as Love, or being patient and kind).

Earning salvation is the wrong concept. We can all agree that there is no law given which can impart life to a person, Gal 3:11. If there was we probably could not do it anyway.

The concept is not one of merit, but one of "a commandment with promise".

God offers us something (eternal life) and if we want it we do what he says we get what He promised. This is His ball game and we co-operate or not.

Also remember what He has asked of us is not to hard for us - Deuteronomy 30:11. Jesus telling us not to sin (Jn 5:14) is not too hard for us either. In our covenant with God there is a provision for being forgiven - simply confess the sin and Jesus forgives you and in that way you are fulfilling the law.

At that moment you are sinless and can try again not to sin.

Also please know that I am only on the internet ocassionally so I may not respond to posts all the time.

Respectfully - Brian

 

[Grandpa]

The concept is not one of merit, but one of "a commandment with promise".

God offers us something (eternal life) and if we want it we do what he says we get what He promised. This is His ball game and we co-operate or not.


Respectfully - Brian

You say the concept is not one of merit but then in your next breath you say if we do good then we get good. This is one of the reasons it is difficult to show someone that once they are saved by God it is eternal. The merit system is so ingrained that you can't comprehend a system outside of that one.

We are saved by Grace. We are not saved by obedience. We are given obedience. We are given sanctification. We are given justification. All of these gifts come from the one, Grace.

 

[Red33]

Brother - we are not sinfull simply because we exist. We are sinful because of what we choose to do, and the grace of God teaches sinners to abstain from sin. Sin is lawlessness or breaking the Law (Jesus summarized the law - as Love, or being patient and kind).

Earning salvation is the wrong concept. We can all agree that there is no law given which can impart life to a person, Gal 3:11. If there was we probably could not do it anyway.

The concept is not one of merit, but one of "a commandment with promise".

God offers us something (eternal life) and if we want it we do what he says we get what He promised. This is His ball game and we co-operate or not.

Also remember what He has asked of us is not to hard for us - Deuteronomy 30:11. Jesus telling us not to sin (Jn 5:14) is not too hard for us either. In our covenant with God there is a provision for being forgiven - simply confess the sin and Jesus forgives you and in that way you are fulfilling the law.

At that moment you are sinless and can try again not to sin.

Also please know that I am only on the internet ocassionally so I may not respond to posts all the time.

Respectfully - Brian

Eternal life or everlasting life is a gift of God's grace given to anyone who believes by faith upon the Son (Jn 3:36, 5:26, 1Jn 5:11,12,20, Rom 6:23). The commandment with promise is if we believe upon the Son (commandment) we will have eternal life (promise) with the Father and with the Son.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Brother - we are not sinfull simply because we exist. We are sinful because of what we choose to do, and the grace of God teaches sinners to abstain from sin. Sin is lawlessness or breaking the Law (Jesus summarized the law - as Love, or being patient and kind).

I agree. and we will continue to chose to sin until our bodies are redeemed and we are made whole in heaven.

Earning salvation is the wrong concept. We can all agree that there is no law given which can impart life to a person, Gal 3:11. If there was we probably could not do it anyway.

Yet you are putting people back under law. But can't see it. You have bought into the biggest lie satan has put forth with the possible exception of paganism.

The concept is not one of merit, but one of "a commandment with promise".

Yet in reality it is merit.

God offers us something (eternal life) and if we want it we do what he says we get what He promised. This is His ball game and we co-operate or not.

He tells us we can;t get their by law. In other words, we can never be good enough to earn it. Which is what you are preaching.

He tells us how we obey, That whoever calls on the name of the lord WILL BE, Not MIGHT be, SAVED. We are justified freely by the death of Christ based on our faiht. Not our works. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, we WERE saved by the washing and renewing of the spirit. You are not teaching this.

Also remember what He has asked of us is not to hard for us - Deuteronomy 30:11. Jesus telling us not to sin (Jn 5:14) is not too hard for us either. In our covenant with God there is a provision for being forgiven - simply confess the sin and Jesus forgives you and in that way you are fulfilling the law.

Jesus did not tell us not to sin, he would ask us to be doing something we can not do. He told us to change our lives and learn to be more sanctified and be like him. If we could be sinless just by being saved, Everyone who was saved would never sin again.

At that moment you are sinless and can try again not to sin.

We can try, But as Paul said in romans 7, and John said in his first epistle. we will fail.

 

[Tan]

Hi Tan - As with many unscriptural doctrines, this one (once saved always saved) is an unscriptural statement or concept. This misunderstanding is cleared up when the term "salvation" is scripturally defined. We as Christians are commanded to treat each other as we would treat Jesus himself. What we do to the least of His brethren we do to Jesus Himself, Matt 25:40. We don't injure or insult our brethren simply because they do not understand something.

God has shut up all of us under sin so that He can have mercy on all of us, Romans 11:32 and Gal 3:22. So we can see that all of us need to be saved.

We are all sinners who are being saved (from wrath) by God's grace, Eph 2:8.

Being saved means being saved from God's wrath, which is visited against ungodliness or sin, Romans 1:18.

This then infers that we have the option of being saved from the wrath visited against sin every time we are are presented with the choice of wether to sin or not.

Salvation from sin is only truly acheived when a person abstains from ungodliness (no longer sins, titus 2:11-12), and is conformed into the image of Christ.

We however, all come to Christ as sinners and none of us stops sinning immediately thereafter. The grace of God teaches us to abstain from ungodliness or sin, (titus 2:11-12). Thus the statement "by Grace are you saved".

So if we cooperate with the teaching or instruction of Gods grace we are being saved from wrath in that instance, but if we resist the grace of God in any particular instance and we continue to willfully sin we can expect to be judged and receive a just recompense from God, Heb 10:27.

Respectfully - Brian

I agree with you, but it a little more to it. If we cooperate with the teaching or instruction of God we are being saved from wrath in that instance, and the lake of fire but if we resist the of God instruction in any particular instance and we continue to willfully sin we can expect to be judged and receive a just recompense from God, Heb 10:27.

I took grace out because, grace is just a free gift. Maintain by (1John:3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Look at it this way...Grace connects to Adam sin and end with Jesus. Another words without grace, Moses would of went into the lake of fire and all the prophets. Didn't matter how good or bad you where, every body created goes into the lake of fire, because sin is here, sin is on the table. This is how serious this is, brother and sisters. Thank God for Jesus.

 

[Tan]

If you feel that you are saved, I'm sure that you know the few verses that seem to imply this. Such as (l Corinthians 1:18) "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God and (2 Corinthians 2:15) "For we are unto God a sweet savor of Christ in them that are saved, and in them that perish." both of these scriptures are true, but when, how, and what will be saved?

Remember these verses mentioned those that perish as well as those that are saved, and if you are saved then at the same time someone is to perish. If this is the case, we have been judged, and I'm sure we all would remember standing in front of a white throne looking at Jesus and the saints.
Seeing that Jesus is your Lord, then you must confess and confirm (Saint John 5:22) "For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the Son." This leaves judgment in Jesus hands only. Now we understand (2 Timothy 4:1) "I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom."

 

[Trax]

(Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life,

He sees the end from the beginning. He's already seen the end of your life. He's already
seen the sins you are going to do, long before you do them. He's paid for them already.
You aren't going to catch Him by surprise. Long before you start to stray, He's got things in place
to get you back. Why? Because the saved belong to Him. God doesn't belong to the saved,
but the saved belong to Him. Jesus already went through a lot of trouble to get you and not
going to toss anyone aside for a little rebellion. He knew about that rebellion when He called you.
God isn't a god of tossing His own out, but a God of getting His own back in line. God made His choice from the perspective of the end of time. Once saved is always saved because God is at
the end of time with you.

 

[Katy-follower]

(Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved[/FONT]

I think this is addressed to those left behind to go through the tribulation. Many will come to believe in Jesus and will be faced with dying as martyrs and others will flee and survive to the end.

This scripture parallels Mark 13:12-13: "Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved"

Christ promises that those left behind who make it to the time of His second coming will be delivered into the Millennial kingdom which will come at the end of the tribulation period.

 

[Katy-follower]

P.S. Just to confirm again, as per my original post on page 2. Link --> http://christianchat.com/780219-post24.html. God keeps us. We can't lose our salvation. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption! Does no one trust that God keeps us?!!! Do you have "itching ears" that you choose to believe what you want rather than what scripture actually says? Sealed.. eternal... no one can snatch us from the Father's hand... You can't deny these scriptures. We are not un-born again, we are not uncleansed by Jesus' blood.

 

[Red33]

I think this is addressed to those left behind to go through the tribulation. Many will come to believe in Jesus and will be faced with dying as martyrs and others will flee and survive to the end.

This scripture parallels Mark 13:12-13: "Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved"

Christ promises that those left behind who make it to the time of His second coming will be delivered into the Millennial kingdom which will come at the end of the tribulation period.

You have such good and practical understanding, which is so refreshing. Thank you for your input and for the grace that you always share truth with others.

 

[Tan]

Understand brothers and sisters what Paul is saying in (1Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible. Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway. This doesn’t sound like Paul thinks that he has guarantee salvation.

 

[Tan]

He sees the end from the beginning. He's already seen the end of your life. He's already
seen the sins you are going to do, long before you do them. He's paid for them already.
You aren't going to catch Him by surprise. Long before you start to stray, He's got things in place
to get you back. Why? Because the saved belong to Him. God doesn't belong to the saved,
but the saved belong to Him. Jesus already went through a lot of trouble to get you and not
going to toss anyone aside for a little rebellion. He knew about that rebellion when He called you.
God isn't a god of tossing His own out, but a God of getting His own back in line. God made His choice from the perspective of the end of time. Once saved is always saved because God is at
the end of time with you.

Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check.

 

[Tan]

P.S. Just to confirm again, as per my original post on page 2. Link --> http://christianchat.com/780219-post24.html. God keeps us. We can't lose our salvation. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption! Does no one trust that God keeps us?!!! Do you have "itching ears" that you choose to believe what you want rather than what scripture actually says? Sealed.. eternal... no one can snatch us from the Father's hand... You can't deny these scriptures. We are not un-born again, we are not uncleansed by Jesus' blood.

Thats totally unbiblical, theres no scriptures or verses that says you are secure or can't loose your salvation. Jesus said in Matthew 25: 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Lets skip down to verses 41: 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Jesus not talking seal by the Holy Ghost, or you can't loose your salvation. These people lost there salvation cast into everlasting fire. How do you know your not one of those people on the left side?

 

[Katy-follower]

Jesus said in Matthew 25: 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world

You misunderstand this scripture completely. The world is made up of two groups - the sheep and goats, the wheat and the tares, the narrow and broad road. These are believers and non believers. Those born again and those not born again. This scripture is not talking about losing salvation, it's talking about the judgment. The wheat and tares have been left to grow together (the believers and non believers) but one day the weeds will be thrown into the fire. Matthew 13:30: "..Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn"

Lets skip down to verses 41: 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: Jesus not talking seal by the Holy Ghost, or you can't loose your salvation. These people lost there salvation cast into everlasting fire.

The goats on the left are non believers that were never saved by the blood of Jesus. They were never born again. In this group will be a variety of people - atheists, people that continued living their lives never wanting to know God, there will also be some religious people in this group that depended on their works to save them rather than the work of Jesus on the cross. It is too late at that point for them to be saved. No second chance then. All will be cursed to everlasting fire.

How do you know your not one of those people on the left side?

The fact you ask this question is worrying as it indicates your internal state. Once you're born again (saved) you know it and don't question it. You are changed. You also feel the eternal security at the moment you are saved. I'm born again, saved by the blood of Jesus. I'm not the person I used to be. I'm a sheep, God looks on me as righteous because I'm covered by the blood of Jesus.

It's the non believers that don't have eternal security. It is pretty common that when you ask a non believer where they think they will spend eternity that they have no idea. Catholics don't have eternal security either. They are threatened with an anathema if they believe they have eternal security.

People that try to earn their salvation will always doubt eternal security...because they don't have eternal security that believers have and feel in their hearts once they're saved.

No works can save us. Nothing I do can earn or lose me salvation. God keeps us. You're believing in works for salvation which isn't biblical. Only God can make you a sheep.


One last thing concerning being sealed....

Ephesians 1:7-14: "In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You misunderstand this scripture completely. The world is made up of two groups - the sheep and goats, the wheat and the tares, the narrow and broad road. These are believers and non believers. Those born again and those not born again. This scripture is not talking about losing salvation, it's talking about the judgment. The wheat and tares have been left to grow together (the believers and non believers) but one day the weeds will be thrown into the fire. Matthew 13:30: "..Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn"



The goats on the left are non believers that were never saved by the blood of Jesus. They were never born again. In this group will be a variety of people - atheists, people that continued living their lives never wanting to know God, there will also be some religious people in this group that depended on their works to save them rather than the work of Jesus on the cross. It is too late at that point for them to be saved. No second chance then. All will be cursed to everlasting fire.




The fact you ask this question is worrying as it indicates your internal state. Once you're born again (saved) you know it and don't question it. You are changed. You also feel the eternal security at the moment you are saved. I'm born again, saved by the blood of Jesus. I'm not the person I used to be. I'm a sheep, God looks on me as righteous because I'm covered by the blood of Jesus.

It's the non believers that don't have eternal security. It is pretty common that when you ask a non believer where they think they will spend eternity that they have no idea. Catholics don't have eternal security either. They are threatened with an anathema if they believe they have eternal security.

People that try to earn their salvation will always doubt eternal security...because they don't have eternal security that believers have and feel in their hearts once they're saved.

No works can save us. Nothing I do can earn or lose me salvation. God keeps us. You're believing in works for salvation which isn't biblical. Only God can make you a sheep.


One last thing concerning being sealed....

Ephesians 1:7-14: "In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory"

amen, and I might add:

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

the sheep KNOW they have eternal life. and KNOW they have not been given a spirit of fear, but a spirit of adoption.. we were adopted by God through Christ, we did not barge into Gods family and demand to be let in, or work our way to earn gods love, he loved us when we were his enemy, how more would he love us when we are his children.

 

[Tan]

You misunderstand this scripture completely. The world is made up of two groups - the sheep and goats, the wheat and the tares, the narrow and broad road. These are believers and non believers. Those born again and those not born again. This scripture is not talking about losing salvation, it's talking about the judgment. The wheat and tares have been left to grow together (the believers and non believers) but one day the weeds will be thrown into the fire. Matthew 13:30: "..Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn"



The goats on the left are non believers that were never saved by the blood of Jesus. They were never born again. In this group will be a variety of people - atheists, people that continued living their lives never wanting to know God, there will also be some religious people in this group that depended on their works to save them rather than the work of Jesus on the cross. It is too late at that point for them to be saved. No second chance then. All will be cursed to everlasting fire.




The fact you ask this question is worrying as it indicates your internal state. Once you're born again (saved) you know it and don't question it. You are changed. You also feel the eternal security at the moment you are saved. I'm born again, saved by the blood of Jesus. I'm not the person I used to be. I'm a sheep, God looks on me as righteous because I'm covered by the blood of Jesus.

It's the non believers that don't have eternal security. It is pretty common that when you ask a non believer where they think they will spend eternity that they have no idea. Catholics don't have eternal security either. They are threatened with an anathema if they believe they have eternal security.

People that try to earn their salvation will always doubt eternal security...because they don't have eternal security that believers have and feel in their hearts once they're saved.

No works can save us. Nothing I do can earn or lose me salvation. God keeps us. You're believing in works for salvation which isn't biblical. Only God can make you a sheep.


One last thing concerning being sealed....

Ephesians 1:7-14: "In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory"

I understand you want to believe that you are, but the BIble do not that mind set. Well consider this (James 4:12) "There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who are thou that judgest another." Now if Jesus is your Lord, he is the only one who can judge whether you will be saved or destroyed and this happens at his appearing and his kingdom. Then, after 1,000 years of peace, the Judgment day (where all that have ever lived will be judged, by Jesus and his saints) (1 Corinthians 6:1-3); (Revelations 20:4); (Genesis 22:18) says, "And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou has obeyed my voice." We know that this particular seed is Christ, so if we believe God, as Abraham did in (Genesis 26:5), and obey his voice, then are we Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise (to possess the land forever). In order for us to receive this promise, we must be able to live forever, but this aging body does not allow us to live that long. But Jesus does, (Philippians 3:20-21), "For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the savior, the Lord Jesus Christ" (verse 1, 2), "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body according to the working where by he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." This is the perfect heavenly body we shall bear in (1 Corinthians 15:49) "and as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly." At this time you can say," I am saved."

If you are going to inherit the land forever, then you must have a body that is able to live forever. This is simple. This is the word of God. How else are salvaged from this death that Adam put us in?

Consider (St. Matthew 24:13), out of Jesus own mouth "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." The end is when the Lawgiver appears, who is able to save, or destroy you at his coming. If Jesus is your Lord, who are you to take judgment from him and say you are saved, or destroyed?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I understand you want to believe that you are, but the BIble do not that mind set. Well consider this (James 4:12) "There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who are thou that judgest another." Now if Jesus is your Lord, he is the only one who can judge whether you will be saved or destroyed and this happens at his appearing and his kingdom. Then, after 1,000 years of peace, the Judgment day (where all that have ever lived will be judged, by Jesus and his saints) (1 Corinthians 6:1-3); (Revelations 20:4); (Genesis 22:18) says, "And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because thou has obeyed my voice." We know that this particular seed is Christ, so if we believe God, as Abraham did in (Genesis 26:5), and obey his voice, then are we Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise (to possess the land forever). In order for us to receive this promise, we must be able to live forever, but this aging body does not allow us to live that long. But Jesus does, (Philippians 3:20-21), "For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the savior, the Lord Jesus Christ" (verse 1, 2), "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body according to the working where by he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." This is the perfect heavenly body we shall bear in (1 Corinthians 15:49) "and as we have borne the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly." At this time you can say," I am saved."

If you are going to inherit the land forever, then you must have a body that is able to live forever. This is simple. This is the word of God. How else are salvaged from this death that Adam put us in?

Consider (St. Matthew 24:13), out of Jesus own mouth "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." The end is when the Lawgiver appears, who is able to save, or destroy you at his coming. If Jesus is your Lord, who are you to take judgment from him and say you are saved, or destroyed?

The flaw in your thinking is thinking you can make yourself have a body that can live forever while you are on this earth. There is nothing you can do to make yourself pure. And you will never get to the point you are pure while you are alive on this earth, If you saw yourself in Gods eyes you would realise how sinfull you are, even this day. Even though in your mind you might think you are a moral person.

Second. Only one thing can cleans sin, As scripture says, without the shedding of blood there can be no remmision. Blood purchases our freedom from condemnation. God will not judge us because he judged his son. He will judge others, because they rejected his son. There is no inbetween.

 

[Tan]

The flaw in your thinking is thinking you can make yourself have a body that can live forever while you are on this earth. There is nothing you can do to make yourself pure. And you will never get to the point you are pure while you are alive on this earth, If you saw yourself in Gods eyes you would realise how sinfull you are, even this day. Even though in your mind you might think you are a moral person.

Second. Only one thing can cleans sin, As scripture says, without the shedding of blood there can be no remmision. Blood purchases our freedom from condemnation. God will not judge us because he judged his son. He will judge others, because they rejected his son. There is no inbetween.

One thing I do agree with you is that the blood of Jesus was Purchase for us. Lets allow Paul to break this down in 1Corinthains 6: 6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. 7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded? 8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Not lonly Paul mention go to law with brother, but also mention some sins that will not allow people to get in the kingdom. Lets down to verse 18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s. Paul lets us know that we are bought with a price, which Jesus blood, so if you are still sinning with this knowledge, then your chances of being save is slim to none.

The flaw in your thinking is thinking you can make yourself have a body that can live forever while you are on this earth.

I don't think you understood the verses I post; but of course those that come up in the first resurrection will have such a body on this earth. Its not a flaw, its Biblical truth. Lets take a quick look in Revelation 20: 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

All of this is on the earth, brother and sisters, lets take a look at the new Body. Lets go into 1Corinthains 15: 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? Whne you run around believing that you are save, this understanding flies right by you like a bullet.

Its more to the story, but I just wanted to touch on some small details of commet, so you and other people can understand whats going on. You have to really understand this Bible from Genesis to Revelation before you tell me I have flaws. Learn to ask questions!