Once saved, always saved

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J

John146

Senior Member
#601
Jan 13, 2016
17,085
3,677
113
#601
BrotherJustin said:
Check out Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22.

Psalm 22:

16 For dogs encompass me;
a company of evildoers encircles me;
they have pierced my hands and feet—
17 I can count all my bones—
they stare and gloat over me;
18 they divide my garments among them,
and for my clothing they cast lots.
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1 Peter 1

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:


11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.


12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

The truth behind the cross of Jesus Christ was not revealed to the prophets even though they wrote about it. It was to minister to those after the cross happened. It was kept mystery form. Satan knows Scripture. Satan would not have initiated the cross to kill the seed if he knew that through the cross he would be defeated. It had to be kept hid until after it was revealed.
 
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BrotherJustin

Guest
#602
#602
John146 said:
1 Peter 1

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:


11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.


12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

The truth behind the cross of Jesus Christ was not revealed to the prophets even though they wrote about it. It was to minister to those after the cross happened. It was kept mystery form. Satan knows Scripture. Satan would not have initiated the cross to kill the seed if he knew that through the cross he would be defeated. It had to be kept hid until after it was revealed.
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What is 'the truth behind the cross of Jesus Christ'? Do you mean Salvation?
 
seed_time_harvest

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#604
Dec 9, 2011
14,085
1,788
113
#604
John146 said:
The faith of Christ was not available to the OT saints.
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Are you saying In the statement above that since Christ had not died on the cross for our sins and made atonement for us yet,that no old testament saints were saved?
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
#605
#605
J

John146

Senior Member
#606
Jan 13, 2016
17,085
3,677
113
#606
seed_time_harvest said:
Are you saying In the statement above that since Christ had not died on the cross for our sins and made atonement for us yet,that no old testament saints were saved?
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You tell me, were they "saved" like we know salvation? Were they absent from the body, present with the Lord? Were they made a new creature in Christ? Were they given the seal of the Holy Spirit? Were they born again? Were they considered sinless in Christ?

All I'm saying is they were not "saved" the way we know salvation. They had to have faith in whatever it was that God had given them to believe and then obey it. If they listened and obeyed, they ended up "safe" in Abraham's bosom until Christ died, He would preach the gospel to them and would lead the captives free. But hear what I'm saying, salvation is and always be through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. How His blood is applied to people in various dispensations may vary.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#607
#607
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John146

Senior Member
#608
Jan 13, 2016
17,085
3,677
113
#608
eternally-gratefull said:
Increase my faith. I have to have faith in order for my faith to increase.

The people James spoke to had no faith. zero, zip nada!. It was dead.

The people of james had to bring their belief to actual faith before they could even think of asking God to incrrease it. You can;t increase something that is not their to begin with.
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So the book of James is not speaking directly to Christians.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#609
#609
John146 said:
So the book of James is not speaking directly to Christians.
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So james telling you to test your faith is not speaking to you and me?

James spoke to a multitude of people in his whole book. People who may be reading his letter together. of all different beliefs.

James 2 and his reference to works speaks to the people in the church who have a belief in God, but have no faiht in God at all. They are hearers of the word not doers.. They have no faith. and they need to realise that so they can repent, and get some faith. or be cast out as false teachers.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#610
Jan 13, 2016
17,085
3,677
113
#610
eternally-gratefull said:
So james telling you to test your faith is not speaking to you and me?

James spoke to a multitude of people in his whole book. People who may be reading his letter together. of all different beliefs.

James 2 and his reference to works speaks to the people in the church who have a belief in God, but have no faiht in God at all. They are hearers of the word not doers.. They have no faith. and they need to realise that so they can repent, and get some faith. or be cast out as false teachers.
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I don't need to test my faith. The faith that justified me is not my own faith, but the faith of Jesus Christ the moment I believed the gospel. James is talking about a whole different thing here. His audience is the twelve tribes, the nation of Israel in a time period after the rapture of the Church. There's a reason the book of James is placed after the writings to the church by the Apostle Paul in his thirteen epistles. God has turned His attention back to the nation of Israel during the time of Jacob's trouble where one must have faith and works to survive the tribulation and reign in the kingdom on earth where Jesus Christ is King of Kings.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#611
#611
John146 said:
I don't need to test my faith. The faith that justified me is not my own faith, but the faith of Jesus Christ the moment I believed the gospel. James is talking about a whole different thing here. His audience is the twelve tribes, the nation of Israel in a time period after the rapture of the Church. There's a reason the book of James is placed after the writings to the church by the Apostle Paul in his thirteen epistles. God has turned His attention back to the nation of Israel during the time of Jacob's trouble where one must have faith and works to survive the tribulation and reign in the kingdom on earth where Jesus Christ is King of Kings.
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yeah whatever.

You ignore the fact James told us who he talked to. People who claimed to have faith, but had no work.

Not to people who really had faith.

Keep twisting Gods word.. and taking things that are applicable to the whole church, and saying they do not appy to us.



 
B

BrotherJustin

Guest
#612
#612
God can direct 'His attention' in every direction possible, simultaneously.

Without 'testing of your faith' we never become mature.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#613
Jan 13, 2016
17,085
3,677
113
#613
BrotherJustin said:
God can direct 'His attention' in every direction possible, simultaneously.

Without 'testing of your faith' we never become mature.
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Agreed, but the church is gone during Jacob's trouble.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#614
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#614
John146 said:
You tell me, were they "saved" like we know salvation? Were they absent from the body, present with the Lord? Were they made a new creature in Christ? Were they given the seal of the Holy Spirit? Were they born again? Were they considered sinless in Christ?

All I'm saying is they were not "saved" the way we know salvation. They had to have faith in whatever it was that God had given them to believe and then obey it. If they listened and obeyed, they ended up "safe" in Abraham's bosom until Christ died, He would preach the gospel to them and would lead the captives free. But hear what I'm saying, salvation is and always be through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. How His blood is applied to people in various dispensations may vary.
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What? How did that become part of being saved? No wonder you are slightly askew doctrinally.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#615
Jan 13, 2016
17,085
3,677
113
#615
eternally-gratefull said:
yeah whatever.

You ignore the fact James told us who he talked to. People who claimed to have faith, but had no work.

Not to people who really had faith.

Keep twisting Gods word.. and taking things that are applicable to the whole church, and saying they do not appy to us.
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Yep he did tell us...the twelve tribes
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#616
Jan 13, 2016
17,085
3,677
113
#616
notuptome said:
What? How did that become part of being saved? No wonder you are slightly askew doctrinally.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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So you don't believe that when Christians die today they are absent from the body and present with the Lord?
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#617
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#617
John146 said:
I don't need to test my faith. The faith that justified me is not my own faith, but the faith of Jesus Christ the moment I believed the gospel. James is talking about a whole different thing here. His audience is the twelve tribes, the nation of Israel in a time period after the rapture of the Church. There's a reason the book of James is placed after the writings to the church by the Apostle Paul in his thirteen epistles. God has turned His attention back to the nation of Israel during the time of Jacob's trouble where one must have faith and works to survive the tribulation and reign in the kingdom on earth where Jesus Christ is King of Kings.
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After the rapture of the church? You're joking right?

Don't know what book you've been reading but it isn't the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#618
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#618
John146 said:
So you don't believe that when Christians die today they are absent from the body and present with the Lord?
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Why would James be writing to a group of believers that were already dead? You are incoherent and confusing.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#619
Jan 13, 2016
17,085
3,677
113
#619
notuptome said:
Why would James be writing to a group of believers that were already dead? You are incoherent and confusing.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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James is not writing to a group of believers. James is writing to the twelve tribes scattered during the time of Jacob's trouble. Why is the book of James placed after Paul's epistles to the church when it was clearly written before Paul penned one letter? Ever thought about that? The Bible is put together chronologically, how events happen throughout the course of human history, not in order by date in which they were written.
 
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BrotherJustin

Guest
#620
#620
BrotherJustin said:
Without 'testing of your faith' we never become mature.
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^ This is confusing when I compare James 1:3 to Ephesians 2:8.

If faith is a gift from God--how can it be attributed to us ("your") and how can it be tested?
 
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