Once Saved Always Saved?

Loved · Oct 26, 2011

I am a Baptist, but the Holy Scriptures take the final say in any and all doctrines, including all church doctrines.

I am not trying to totally disprove this idea, I just am looking for more understanding.

The Bible I read does not tell me; that all is required to enter into Heaven is to confess JESUS as LORD.

Matthew 7:22-23 informs us that many people wil approach GOD and think they were Saved, but were not.

Matthew 7:19 informs us that even if you were part of GOD's Kingdom, no true Salvation (the by-product of which is good works) you will be cast into hell.

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GOD has burdened my heart on this very serious subject, I feel as if we are living in "Revalations 3:20" and JESUS is knocking on the door..... and is asking us to let him enter into ..... the Church

God Bless,
Pastor Nohwoter

tribesman · Oct 26, 2011

Loved said:

Tell me how you believe that someone is saved. Do you believe that the power of salvation belongs only to God or only partly to God and partly to man?

Loved · Oct 26, 2011

tribesman said:

The power to Save is GOD's power..... GOD alone can deliver Salvation

However, we have a free will and GD does not force Salvation on us, man has to accept the free gift.

If I give you $100 and you do not take it and put in your wallet, then you do not have the money, I still have it. The same with Salvation, you:

admit you are a sinner
ask JESUS for to forgive you and to be your LORD and Savior
believe JESUS died for your sins and GOD raised Him from the dead
turn from you sins
confess JESUS before others
always trust in Him

Laodicea · Oct 26, 2011

Loved said:

Joshua 24:15
(15) And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

AnandaHya · Oct 26, 2011

Loved said:

yes some oeople have a hard time accept Jesus as LORD and turning from their sin and lack the faith that truly saves

but God can even fix that

Mark 9:24
Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”

Laodicea · Oct 26, 2011

AnandaHya said:

Matthew 14:30-31
(30) But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
(31) And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

tribesman · Oct 26, 2011

Loved said:

I beg to differ that we have "free will" in spiritual matters.

Can you give any scriptural support for your idea of "free will", especially for the unsaved?

Tobby17 · Oct 26, 2011

Loved said:

Yes, even after you confess Christ, you still have to continue in faith, IT IS POSSIBLE TO LOOSE SALVATION, and that is what is called Backsliding, once you backslide and go back to the world, then you can no longer claim to be saved or be a child of God..

The first step is to accept Christ, then you have to fight the good fight of faith!.. The bible says he who endures to the end shall be saved..

God Bless

tribesman · Oct 26, 2011

Tobby17 said:

What is backsliding or falling away? To believe that it is the work of man, not the finished work of Christ, that makes the difference between heaven and hell for a sinner, is to fall away.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 26, 2011

I also grew up baptist. of course there are so many different types. Some even teach you can lose salvation.

As for the prayer. (many call sinner's prayer), I do believe many who said it have never been saved. The reason is not because they did not say the prayer. But the fact they truely did not have faith in what they were asking. They did not have a repentant heart. Many say it I believe as a stop gap measure "Just in case this is true" but really do not believe they need it. We know these people by the lack of change in life.

It takes faith. and asking God for his gift. So some sort of cry out to God, or prayer would be needed.

Matt 7 is talking about the other group of people. Those who tried to earn their way to heaven by their good deeds. And never placed their trust in Christ. Their trust was in self and all their good works. Thats why they claimed to have done all these works in Christ's name. Yet what is Christ's answer. "Depart for I never knew you" (Think about it. If they were saved, and lost it. Christ could not say he never knew them. because they would have been a part of his family at one time. and lost that right. So Christ would have known them at one time.

many will also say you can "give your salvation back". This mocks at the omniscience and character of God. Saying God would give someone something they never truely wanted in the first place. John tells us they were never part of the church. and departed to prove they never really were true Christians.

As you salvation is by the power of God. We can't earn it. If we can't earn it we can't lose it. Saying you can lose it. is saying you must earn it. Which means it is of works. not of grace.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 26, 2011

Tobby17 said:

Backsliding would be a prodigal child. The prodigal child never stopped being a son. he just lost access to his fathers blessings. Many do backslide. but they do not lose salvation. If we could God lied, and never gave us eternal life. he gave us conditional life. it also means we are under law, not under grace.

flapalms239 · Oct 26, 2011

This argument can not be solved. If you believe in once saved always saved you must also believe that you truly confessed your sins in the first place and changed your life towards Christ. If you "backslide" then you didn't really repent or change your life in the first place.

No matter which side of the coin you are on there is a plausible argument for the other side.

We all fail, we all sin, and we are all sinners. It's an everyday battle and an everyday decision to follow Christ.

If you suddenly become an Atheist were you truly saved to begin with? That's not for me to decide...I can only vouch for my own life..

Tobby17 · Oct 26, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

He that sinneth is of the DEVIL, for the DEVILl sinneth from the beginning.. 1John3:8

Sorry i don't understand how you can go back to the world and do all the things of the world unrepentantly and still claim to be saved... ?????

Tobby17 · Oct 26, 2011

tribesman said:

So what happens if u decide not to live under this eternal grace again and live ur life as u please, u remain a child of God?

cronjecj · Oct 26, 2011

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

This will happen because they were not predestined (the elect) in the first place meaning their faith was temporary but also quick to loose their faith like the parable Jesus spoke of,

Matthew 13:3-8
And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow; And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

tribesman · Oct 26, 2011

Tobby17 said:

One does not jump in and out of his childhood in God at will. It is not the saved person's deciding or not deciding anything that has saved him and will keep him saved. It is the decision of God. Even "Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy" (Jude v.24).

cronjecj · Oct 26, 2011

tribesman said:

Amen to that brother from another mother!

It's Him that calleth, not him that willeth.

Peace.

Zilla64007 · Oct 26, 2011

Loved said:

it takes more than simple confession... Jesus called us to repent of our sins and follow Him.

tribesman quoted john 10 for OSAS, focusing on verse 28-29... we should focus more on verse 27:
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

verse 28-29 say "they" and "them"... these words are referring to only those which He described in verse 27. the only ones who will not be plucked out of His hand are those who hear His voice and follow Him. these verses do not say what happens to those Christians who first hear and listen but then fall away either in apostasy. again, this verse only addresses the sheep, and the power that Christ has for His sheep from any external force outside of themselves.

if you want to see what happens to those Christians who fall away from apostasy, read 1 and 2 Timothy, the story of King Saul, and Revelation 2:8-11... i'll quote 2 Timothy 2:12:
If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us.

Paul is speaking about not only himself and Timothy, but to all Christians. this book was written to Christians
if we deny Christ, He denies us

Breedabie · Oct 26, 2011

There are so many different theological viewpoints going on here, I don't want to try to touch on them all at once.
Loved, I have read a number of amazing books on this subject, as it is a very prevalent belief in the area where I live. One of the most godly men I know, an Evangelist from New Zealand named Winkie Pratney, has written several tracts on it as well, and they are free to read. Winkie always has many scripture references and relies heavily on the Word in his writings.

The first three links are part of one tract called "Counterfeit Conversion" that changed our pastor's life.
Counterfeit Conversion - Part 1
Counterfeit Conversion - Part 2
Counterfeit Conversion - Part 3

Cosmic Chess
Me Or Adam?
Man And the Origin Of Evil

Another free resource that is invaluable is Harry Conn's "The Moral Government of God" series, which is up on YouTube in sections.

I also highly recommend reading "Is God to Blame?" by Greg Boyd, and I've heard his book "God of the Possible" is incredible as well, though I haven't read it yet. You should also look for: "The God They Never Knew" by George Otis Jr., anything by Charles Finney. Finney may take some serious study, since his language usage is not modern, but "It All Adds Up To Love" by J. W. Jepson is a digest of Finney's Systematic Theology, and it is the main reason I decided to commit my life to the Lord.

Zilla64007 · Oct 26, 2011

i would not take anything from Finney seriously... Finney was more along the lines of a Pelagian...

loved, I would recommend the topical articles by Steve Gregg. He is a modern theologian, and offers all of his work for free (no joke), all at thenarrowpath.com
some other older people to consider would be A.W. tozer, Adam Clarke

books i would recommend you reading on this subject would be Life in The Son by Robert Shanks. this book deals directly with once saved always saved, and provides scripture for everything he teaches

Once Saved Always Saved?

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