-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Heb 5:9 Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that OBEY Him.
You are creating contradictions within scripture by refusing to see Paul is eliminating works of merit and not obedience to Christ.
Rom 6:16 Paul says you serve either 1)sin unto death or 2) obedience unto righteousness.
I serve #2. Faith only eliminates #2 for you.
Which was the man in 1 Cor 5 serving?
You are creating contradictions within scripture by refusing to see Paul is eliminating works of merit and not obedience to Christ.
Rom 6:16 Paul says you serve either 1)sin unto death or 2) obedience unto righteousness.
I serve #2. Faith only eliminates #2 for you.
Which was the man in 1 Cor 5 serving?
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Repentance is part of walking in the light. The man in 1 Cor did not repent, he quit walking in the light.
IF IF IF the Christian continues to walk in the light then Christ's blood continues to wash away all sins. 1 Jn 1:7
And the sinner first contacts the blood of Christ in water baptism where that blood washes away sins and that blood continuesto wash away all sins as long as that person continue to walk in the light.
Yourself, dcontroversial, eteranlly-gratfull can try as you all may but none of you will ever get the Christians' sins washed away UNCONDITIONALLY. The Christian's sins are washed away only on the CONDITION the Christian continues to walk in the light.
Without a Savior then nothing can save anyone. Christ's blood is needed to wash away sins and that only happens when the Christian CONDITIOANLLY walks in the light, 1 Jn 1:7.
Christ NEVER said belief only saves.
He made repentance necessary to salvation Lk 13:3,5 as much as believing
He made confession necessary to salvation Mt 10:32,33 as much as believing
He made baptism necessary to salvation Mk 16:16 as much as believing
By trying to make salvation by "belief only" then you are impossibly trying to make the impenitent, denier of Christ who is lost in his unremitted sin saved.
IF IF IF the Christian continues to walk in the light then Christ's blood continues to wash away all sins. 1 Jn 1:7
And the sinner first contacts the blood of Christ in water baptism where that blood washes away sins and that blood continuesto wash away all sins as long as that person continue to walk in the light.
Yourself, dcontroversial, eteranlly-gratfull can try as you all may but none of you will ever get the Christians' sins washed away UNCONDITIONALLY. The Christian's sins are washed away only on the CONDITION the Christian continues to walk in the light.
Without a Savior then nothing can save anyone. Christ's blood is needed to wash away sins and that only happens when the Christian CONDITIOANLLY walks in the light, 1 Jn 1:7.
Christ NEVER said belief only saves.
He made repentance necessary to salvation Lk 13:3,5 as much as believing
He made confession necessary to salvation Mt 10:32,33 as much as believing
He made baptism necessary to salvation Mk 16:16 as much as believing
By trying to make salvation by "belief only" then you are impossibly trying to make the impenitent, denier of Christ who is lost in his unremitted sin saved.
Once saved always saved goes hand in hand with the scripture,for the saints are predestined to salvation,so they think they cannot fall since they believe God picks their salvation in the beginning,but they do not understand.
God does not pick who will be saved and who will not be saved in the beginning because it goes against the nature of God and it would mean God's kingdom is not based on true love.
If God picks people to be saved in the beginning then these people have no choice but to love God seeing no alternative so that would mean God's kingdom is not based on true love but robotic love.
You can program your computer to say I love you,but it does not,but it has no choice but to say that seeing no alternative,so it is robotic love and not true love.
God is good not evil and would not pick some people to be saved and some not to be saved without input from them.
All people are considered sinners for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God so why would God favor some over others when all are considered sinners.
The BIble says that God does not want anybody to perish but wants all people to come to repentance and be saved.
The Bible says that Jesus lights every person that is born in to this world which means everybody has the chance to have the light of Jesus and be saved.
The Bible says that many are called but few are chosen which means God does the calling while on earth and does the choosing on earth,not in the beginning,for it is up to the person whether they want to be saved or not.
Now back to the saints are predestined to salvation.It does not mean God chooses in the beginning.
The Bible says that God calls things that have not happened as though they already happened for if it is a plan of God in the beginning to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hinderances.
The Bible says that the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world although we know it did not happen until 4000 years later for God calls things that have not yet happened as though they already happened.
God already had everything planned out in the beginning before He laid down the foundation of the world so it is the same as if they happened in the beginning for God calls things that have not yet happened as though they already happened.
When the Bible says that the saints are predestined to salvation it does not mean that God chose people in the beginning,but it means that God already had the plan to give mankind salvation in the beginning so it is the same as if the saints already have salvation in the beginning,and that salvation is to whoever wants that salvation making God's kingdom true love.
Predestined to salvation along with once saved always saved where they believe they cannot fall goes against God's nature of being a good God,goes against God's kingdom that is based on true love,and goes against scriptures.
The Bible says that if a person thinks they stand,they should take heed lest they fall,which means if a person thinks they cannot fall they should beware that they do not fall which the scriptures say that a person can fall away after they are saved if they do not continue in their walk with God rightly.
The Bible says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
If a person thinks they stand,take heed lest they fall,or once saved always saved,causes many people to become relaxed in their walk with God because they might dabble in sin and live worldly because they think they cannot fall,and causes the flesh to have some liberty in their life because they do not worry to much about doing right.
That is what the Bible means if a person thinks they stand,take heed lest they fall,because they become relaxed in their walk with God because they think they cannot fall and many miss the mark and can cause many hypocritical people claiming to be with Christ.
I do not say hypocritical Christian but hypocrites that claim to be with Christ,for there is no such thing as a hypocritical Christian,for if you are a hypocrite you are not a Christian,and if you are a Christian you are not a hypocrite.
Once saved always saved is not true that God chose them in the beginning and they did not make the choice to be saved but God chose it and a person can be saved and fall away if they go astray and allow the flesh to have liberty in their life and not getting rid of it.
A person cannot live in sin and not want to get rid of it and be saved and the Bible says if a person has knowledge of sin but does it anyway then there is no more sacrifice for that sin but a fearful looking after of judgement.
If you sin you can repent of it and be alright if you get rid of it,but if you live in sin and do not get rid of it you are not right with God,and that what happens to a lot of people that believe once saved always saved because they think they cannot fall,so they dabble a little in sin thinking they are alright.
God does not pick who will be saved and who will not be saved in the beginning because it goes against the nature of God and it would mean God's kingdom is not based on true love.
If God picks people to be saved in the beginning then these people have no choice but to love God seeing no alternative so that would mean God's kingdom is not based on true love but robotic love.
You can program your computer to say I love you,but it does not,but it has no choice but to say that seeing no alternative,so it is robotic love and not true love.
God is good not evil and would not pick some people to be saved and some not to be saved without input from them.
All people are considered sinners for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God so why would God favor some over others when all are considered sinners.
The BIble says that God does not want anybody to perish but wants all people to come to repentance and be saved.
The Bible says that Jesus lights every person that is born in to this world which means everybody has the chance to have the light of Jesus and be saved.
The Bible says that many are called but few are chosen which means God does the calling while on earth and does the choosing on earth,not in the beginning,for it is up to the person whether they want to be saved or not.
Now back to the saints are predestined to salvation.It does not mean God chooses in the beginning.
The Bible says that God calls things that have not happened as though they already happened for if it is a plan of God in the beginning to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hinderances.
The Bible says that the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world although we know it did not happen until 4000 years later for God calls things that have not yet happened as though they already happened.
God already had everything planned out in the beginning before He laid down the foundation of the world so it is the same as if they happened in the beginning for God calls things that have not yet happened as though they already happened.
When the Bible says that the saints are predestined to salvation it does not mean that God chose people in the beginning,but it means that God already had the plan to give mankind salvation in the beginning so it is the same as if the saints already have salvation in the beginning,and that salvation is to whoever wants that salvation making God's kingdom true love.
Predestined to salvation along with once saved always saved where they believe they cannot fall goes against God's nature of being a good God,goes against God's kingdom that is based on true love,and goes against scriptures.
The Bible says that if a person thinks they stand,they should take heed lest they fall,which means if a person thinks they cannot fall they should beware that they do not fall which the scriptures say that a person can fall away after they are saved if they do not continue in their walk with God rightly.
The Bible says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
If a person thinks they stand,take heed lest they fall,or once saved always saved,causes many people to become relaxed in their walk with God because they might dabble in sin and live worldly because they think they cannot fall,and causes the flesh to have some liberty in their life because they do not worry to much about doing right.
That is what the Bible means if a person thinks they stand,take heed lest they fall,because they become relaxed in their walk with God because they think they cannot fall and many miss the mark and can cause many hypocritical people claiming to be with Christ.
I do not say hypocritical Christian but hypocrites that claim to be with Christ,for there is no such thing as a hypocritical Christian,for if you are a hypocrite you are not a Christian,and if you are a Christian you are not a hypocrite.
Once saved always saved is not true that God chose them in the beginning and they did not make the choice to be saved but God chose it and a person can be saved and fall away if they go astray and allow the flesh to have liberty in their life and not getting rid of it.
A person cannot live in sin and not want to get rid of it and be saved and the Bible says if a person has knowledge of sin but does it anyway then there is no more sacrifice for that sin but a fearful looking after of judgement.
If you sin you can repent of it and be alright if you get rid of it,but if you live in sin and do not get rid of it you are not right with God,and that what happens to a lot of people that believe once saved always saved because they think they cannot fall,so they dabble a little in sin thinking they are alright.
God foreknew and preordained the group Christian would be saved. So those that obey the gospel of their own free choice are placed in this foreknown group. One may become unfaithful, as the man in 1 Cor 5, and fall away from this foreknown group. The group is still saved but that man becomes lost for he is no longer in the foreknown group.
So God foreknew the group but never predetermined who would or would not be in the group, each man must make that decision himself.
This can only happen if he can tie works to getting down on his knees and praying.
How may works would that be..
1. Get up off the couch/chair
2. Walk over to a place to kneel
3. Kneel down on your knees
4. Get down on your hands
5. Put face to the ground
6. Go to the Lord and thank him for being so righteous that your works count
7. Thank God for not being as wicked as that sinner EG
8. Pray to God and offer up my works
9. Reject what God has to say in his word as My works are sufficient to add to and guarantee my salvation
10. Thank God for my righteousness and my works
11. Casually mention Jesus and his name as he had a little part in my salvation as I need my works to cap it off
12. Stand up and go eat lunch...
12 works out of that.....man is that enough or does that add 5% more salvation to my salvation seeing how the Work of Jesus was not good enough!
How may works would that be..
1. Get up off the couch/chair
2. Walk over to a place to kneel
3. Kneel down on your knees
4. Get down on your hands
5. Put face to the ground
6. Go to the Lord and thank him for being so righteous that your works count
7. Thank God for not being as wicked as that sinner EG
8. Pray to God and offer up my works
9. Reject what God has to say in his word as My works are sufficient to add to and guarantee my salvation
10. Thank God for my righteousness and my works
11. Casually mention Jesus and his name as he had a little part in my salvation as I need my works to cap it off
12. Stand up and go eat lunch...
12 works out of that.....man is that enough or does that add 5% more salvation to my salvation seeing how the Work of Jesus was not good enough!
E
Thanks, You just PROVED you have not listened to one word I, or anyone else here for that matter, have said.
I have over and over stated mere belief is NOT enough to save you..
Do you like making false claims the world can see. or are you just that dead set on listening to what anyone says you continue to make false claims about them?
No OSAS does not say belief is enough, YOUR WRONG.
again, if you think this, you have no idea what we believe,
keep convincing yourself you are right, and ignoring what everyone says and claiming you know when you have absolutely no idea what they believe, and prove it every time you open your mout (or in this case type any words.
I have over and over stated mere belief is NOT enough to save you..
Do you like making false claims the world can see. or are you just that dead set on listening to what anyone says you continue to make false claims about them?
No OSAS does not say belief is enough, YOUR WRONG.
again, if you think this, you have no idea what we believe,
keep convincing yourself you are right, and ignoring what everyone says and claiming you know when you have absolutely no idea what they believe, and prove it every time you open your mout (or in this case type any words.
E
Your argument is with James
He claims you are as sinful and guilty as the fornicater. heck James makes it clear. your as guilty as Hitler.
You can;t see it, because you can;t see your own sin. The pharisees had this same issue with their own selves. What was gods answer to them? you should listen, because God is talking to you also.
He claims you are as sinful and guilty as the fornicater. heck James makes it clear. your as guilty as Hitler.
You can;t see it, because you can;t see your own sin. The pharisees had this same issue with their own selves. What was gods answer to them? you should listen, because God is talking to you also.
E
You do not even know what repent means dude, if you tru;y repented you would never do it again. Yet you continue to do it. That is not repentnance in your interpretation of it my friend.
repentance is not an excuse to sin, Your making it an excuse. which goes against the very thing you are trying to convey.
you say one thing, yet do and live another.
the man in 1 cor 5 did repent, It is found in 2 cor. Why did he repent? He was chastened by God and the church, WHich proves he was not an iligitiment son, but a true son of God. who went astray, but God never left him..
So you think there is salvation outside of Christ?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
This is why we have to remain in fellowship with him. Salvation is in Christ...without his fellowship you have no salvation.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, [SUP]5 [/SUP]that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge— [SUP]6 [/SUP]even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you— [SUP]7 [/SUP]so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, [SUP]8 [/SUP]who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
[h=3][/h]
[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
This is why we have to remain in fellowship with him. Salvation is in Christ...without his fellowship you have no salvation.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, [SUP]5 [/SUP]that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge— [SUP]6 [/SUP]even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you— [SUP]7 [/SUP]so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, [SUP]8 [/SUP]who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
[h=3][/h]
God said there are those who worship Him with their lips but their hearts are far from Him.
You say you walk in the light but you don't act like you walk in the light. You claim the Holy Spirit directs you but the Holy Spirit does not lead away from Christ and toward man. You tell us all of what you do but you hardly even know what Christ has done.
Christians are to be conformed to the image of Christ not trying change Christ into the image of man.
The more you post the clearer it becomes to me that you are very religious.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You say you walk in the light but you don't act like you walk in the light. You claim the Holy Spirit directs you but the Holy Spirit does not lead away from Christ and toward man. You tell us all of what you do but you hardly even know what Christ has done.
Christians are to be conformed to the image of Christ not trying change Christ into the image of man.
The more you post the clearer it becomes to me that you are very religious.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
This section of scripture is regarding fellowship with the Father and the Son - fellowship is not salvation. It is the relationship between two parties.
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you that you also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father and his Son Jesus Christ. . . . If we say we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:3,6,7
If we walk in darkness [sin]- it breaks our fellowship with the Father and the Son. Notice also it breaks fellowship with other believers. When we return to the light - our fellowship with the Father and the Son is restored. This also happens in earthly families when our children 'walk in darkness' - they get grounded, they do not get to hang with the family - when they apologize [walk in the light], they are restored and again get to hang out with the family.
Nothing here about salvation.
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you that you also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father and his Son Jesus Christ. . . . If we say we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:3,6,7
If we walk in darkness [sin]- it breaks our fellowship with the Father and the Son. Notice also it breaks fellowship with other believers. When we return to the light - our fellowship with the Father and the Son is restored. This also happens in earthly families when our children 'walk in darkness' - they get grounded, they do not get to hang with the family - when they apologize [walk in the light], they are restored and again get to hang out with the family.
Nothing here about salvation.