ONCE saved always saved!.

[seed_time_harvest]

I believe that when you sin,the part of you that was saved(your spirit)was sealed at salvation and does not participate in sin.

But a person needs to do what paul said because we still have to live in these bodies.

Ephesians 1:13

king james version(kjv)

13.)In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Romans 12:1-2

king james version(kjv)

[SUP]1.)[/SUP] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[SUP]
2.)[/SUP] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of GOD.

 

[SeaBass]

Prove it SeaBass.

1 jn 1:7 proves the Christian must continue to walk in the light so Christ's blood continues to wash away all sins.

You prove the Christian can do nothing about his sins yet still be saved anyway.

 

[SeaBass]

Wow! Scanning through these posts it is clear that those who cannot believe in eternal security or the OSAS have a problem. They must impute to God characteristics of men.

To be saved we must believe what Jesus said about Himself......
Roger

...and what if one quits believing, Heb 3:12; Heb 4:11?

 

[SeaBass]

Re: The Gospel with Blah Blah

Sirs what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

So if you want the gospel WITHOUT THIS OR THAT,
there it is.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. There are no withs tacked on.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

...and what if one quits believing, Heb 3:12; Heb 4:11? Still saved in unbelief anyway?

 

[SeaBass]

You will not see what you have determined does not exist. God's grace is greater than all our sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

God's grace is not unconditional, it requires obedience (repentance) on the part of man.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Also I believe the reason men can't accept the OSAS doctrine is because men want to think their righteousness is acceptable to GOD as long as they don,t commit the big sins.

Tell me which one is worse

1.)Murdering someone?
2.)stilling food because you were hungry?

To men maybe they may say # 1 is worse,but which one do you think GOD would choose?

What sin will cause you to lose your salvation? __________________________________

 

[Skinski7]

Re: Salvation 102 Many Questions Are Being Raised on Salvation

B. TOTAL DEPRAVITY OF MAN

Much of our understanding of salvation is influenced by our understanding the man is totally depraved. There is none who does good, no not one. Even the plowing of the unsaved farmer expresses his sinfulness because of his selfish motive, not done to glorify God. Total Depravity does not mean that every man is as evil as he cud be, but that all of his being is affected by sin & nothing he does is good before God.

This right here reveals the root of this salvation deception.

Many of these people believe that human beings are born "totally depraved" and therefore "lack the ability" to obey God.

Thus sin is a natural and inevitable outcome of being a human being. This clearly and logically means that human beings are not responsible for their sin because human beings are victims as opposed to criminals.

As the above quote states "our understanding of salvation is influenced by our understanding that man is totally depraved." This total depravity doctrine completely redefines the nature of man and therefore redefines the solution to the real problem.

Human beings are not born totally depraved. Human beings are born innocent, ignorant and subject to the natural passions of the flesh. As a child grows they develop the capacity to reason and they also become aware of vice and virtue.

God has given all people the light of conscience. God has revealed Himself to all people through the conscience. We all have a knowledge of God. When people choose to knowingly do evil they must suppress the light of conscience and over time the conscience becomes seared and thus sinning becomes easier and easier to do with abandon. A "sin nature" is something that develops over time and it brings bondage.

The Gospel is the means to break this bondage as well as the means for a sinner to be reconciled to God.

Total Depravity basically teaches "SIN YOU WILL AND SIN YOU MUST" and when placed at the foundation of any theological system forces the theological system to adopt an approach where ongoing sin is acceptable as well as inevitable. Thus it is very easy to understand where OSAS actually comes from, it comes from the necessity to disconnect an individuals "position" from an individuals "manifest state."

Salvation is purely provisional under this deception...

C. GOD'S PROVISION IS TOTAL & COMPLETE
On the cross Christ said, "It is finished."

The cross is viewed purely as enacting a legal transaction. If one "trusts" in the legal transaction then they are partakers of it. The teachings of Jesus on heart purity and repentance can then be thrown out the window.

Is it any wonder that churches are full of sin under this theology? Porn addiction support groups? Divorce support groups? On and on.

Sin You Will And Sin You Must is what they believe and thus the churches are built around this concept. Sinning is coddled and the sinners are treated as victims who are "struggling" with their "sin disease."

Sin is not a disease. Sin is a CHOICE. Rebellion to God is not a disease. Rebellion to God is a CHOICE. God holds all of us accountable for our choices just like Cain was held accountable for his. "Sin lies at the door and you should rule over it" God told Cain. Cain let sin rule over him and was condemned for it.

The modern churches would coddle Cain and would ask "do you trust in Jesus?"

"Oh yes I trust in Jesus but I still disobey Him."

"That is ok, you were born a sinner and thus are unable to obey God anyway. God will slowly change you so you can obey more and more and stick your fist at Him less and less."

"Great. Now where is my porn, I just can't help it."

 

[SeaBass]

Bookend posted:

Christ blood paid the ransom for the persons sins, the transaction is irrevocable, the debt paid by Christ was paid in full and His righteousness has been imputed to the believer's account and likewise our sin was place on Jesus. He who knew no sin became sin for us.

But Bookend never provided any scripture to back that statement up.

Christ's righteousness is not imputed to the sinner unconditionally, the sinner must be conditionally, by obedience (Heb 5:9), placed "in Christ" and there be covered by Christ's perfect righteousness. By being "in Christ" his sins are all washed away by the blood of Christ but he MUST CONDITIONALLY remain in Christ for this to happen and not fall away, turn from Christ.[/verse]

Heb 5:9 does not support your theory, SeeBass. You say a lot of things, but prove nothing.



What is your proof of that?



Scripture does not say any such thing about water baptism. It also does not say that in baptism Christ's blood washes away only prior sins.




False choices.



All the Christians sins were paid for on the cross by the Lord Jesus. But God commends His own love for us in that while were were yet sinners Christ died for us.

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

No obedience = no salvation

Rom 6:16 Paul said you serve either one of two masters, you serve either:

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness

I serve #2. Your theology has ruled #2 out for you.

I asked when a Christian sins, must he:
1) conditionally repent of that sin to maintain salvation
2) do nothing for the sin cannot in anyway cause him to lose his salvation

You say false choices. But a Christian will have to do something or do nothing, there is no inbetween.

The bible does not teach all the Christians sins were paid for on the cross and the therefore the Christian has nothing to do about his sins.

 

[SeaBass]

Re: Salvation 102 Many Questions Are Being Raised on Salvation

Instead of going after all these SeaBass, etc. questions on Salvation, I will provide an introduction to Salvation in hopes of covering all these questions:


INTRO TO DOCTRINE OF SALVATION (SOTERIOLOGY)

A. IMPORTANCE OF CORRECTNESS

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

B. TOTAL DEPRAVITY OF MAN

Much of our understanding of salvation is influenced by our understanding the man is totally depraved. There is none who does good, no not one. Even the plowing of the unsaved farmer expresses his sinfulness because of his selfish motive, not done to glorify God. Total Depravity does not mean that every man is as evil as he cud be, but that all of his being is affected by sin & nothing he does is good before God.


C. GOD'S PROVISION IS TOTAL & COMPLETE

On the cross Christ said, "It is finished."

Romans 8 ends with an unbreakable chain:
"For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

Romans 8: "He who spared not His own son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not also with Him freely give us all things."

Gal: "Grace to you..from God the Father & our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins, THAT HE MIGHT DELIVER US OUT OF THIS PRESENT EVIL AGE, according to the will of our God & Father"

D. 3 TENSES OF SALVATION: past, present, future.

1. Past Salvation.
We were saved from the guilt & penalty of sin.
The Christian can rightly say after He trusts Christ as savior, "I was saved."
2 Tim 1:8-9 For God did not give us not a spirit of fearfulness; but of power & love & discipline. Be not ashamed therefore of the testimony of our Lord, not of me his prisoner: but suffer hardship with the gospel according to the power of God; who SAVED us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose & grace which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,


Eph 2 "God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead thru our trespasses, made us alive together w/ Christ (by grace you have been saved) & raised us up w/ him & made us to sit w/ him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you HAVE BEEN SAVED thru faith; & that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God; not of works that no man should glory.

2. Present Salvation:
We have deliverance from the Power of Sin.
1 Cor 1:18: ""For the word of the cross is to them who perish foolishness; but to us who ARE BEING SAVED it is the power of God."

2 Cor 2:15: " For we are a sweet savor of Christ to God, in them WHO ARE BEING SAVED, and in them who are perishing; to the one a savor from death unto death; to the other a savor from life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as the many, corrupting the word of God. But as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God, we speak in Christ."

While a depraved child of Adam inevitably sins, a born-again Christian does not have to sin. A way of escape is always made for him. 1 Cor 10:13: There has no temptation taken you but such as man can bear; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted above that you are able; but will with the temptation make also the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

3. Future Salvation:
We shall be saved from the presence of indwelling Sin, be glorified, and live in bliss with the Lord forever.

But God commends his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through him. For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life;

The bible does not teach man is totally depraved, Gen 4:7, so your whole posts begins/ends with false premises.

 

[Dan58]

God's grace is not unconditional, it requires obedience (repentance) on the part of man.

I agree, a believer can fall away (Judas, King Saul, etc), the bible teaches and warns us of that. "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened , and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come , If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh , and put him to an open shame" (Hebrews 6:4-6).

 

[SeaBass]

I believe that when you sin,the part of you that was saved(your spirit)was sealed at salvation and does not participate in sin.

.

THis is more or less what the Gnostics believed, that sinning affects the flesh but not the spirit leading Jude to say "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ"

 

[SeaBass]

Also I believe the reason men can't accept the OSAS doctrine is because men want to think their righteousness is acceptable to GOD as long as they don,t commit the big sins.

Tell me which one is worse

1.)Murdering someone?
2.)stilling food because you were hungry?

To men maybe they may say # 1 is worse,but which one do you think GOD would choose?

What sin will cause you to lose your salvation? __________________________________

One cannot do his own righteousness to be accepted with God, one must work God's righteousness to be accepted with God Rom 10:3; Acts 10:35

ANY sin a Christian has not repented of will cause loss of salvation. How many sins will one carry into heaven with him?

 

[Skinski7]

Also I believe the reason men can't accept the OSAS doctrine is because men want to think their righteousness is acceptable to GOD as long as they don,t commit the big sins.

Tell me which one is worse

1.)Murdering someone?
2.)stilling food because you were hungry?

To men maybe they may say # 1 is worse,but which one do you think GOD would choose?

What sin will cause you to lose your salvation? __________________________________

Rebellion is the issue not sin in and of itself.

Sin literally means to miss the mark. One can miss the mark due to rebellion or lack of understanding. It is the former which is a sin unto death whilst the latter is a sin not unto death.

Jesus preached repentance because He knew that the rebellion must cease for one to be pardoned. God does not pardon anyone who continues in rebellion. To do so would make mockery of His justice.

He that does what is right is righteous is what Scripture teaches. Abel was a righteous man because he DID that which was right.

Satan wants people to believe that they can willfully choose evil and yet possess a forensic cloak of righteousness. It is a theological dress up of the original lie of "you can sin and not surely die."

God is looking at the heart as all action proceeds from the condition of the heart.

It is the pure in heart that will see God.

Yet many have been deceived into believing that the "filthy in heart" can see God if they have a "forensic cloak of righteousness" due to a belief in a false understanding of the cross.

 

[Hoffco]

WOW, a lot of extreme, off the cuff, empty headed words. I just reviewed, like 15 pages, since I was here, 2 days ago. What sticks in my mind, I can not digest it all,: But, this is what I remember at the moment. If you do THIS SIN, then you must be doing THIS/ these OTHER sins, assuming that the first sin is always a sin, which it may mot be a sin in all given situations. Forgetting that somethings are only sin in a specific situation. King David and Jacob, were not sinning by having many wives. In fact, God said,"I would have given you more wives , you did not have to murder and steal another man's wife". Sin is many times, situational. ALSO, keep in mind, that salvation is both, a change in "status" and a change in "manifest" actions. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Billyd]

Is adultery a sin? Yes No ?

If eternal security is true and a Christian commits adultery, will living in adultery cause that Christian to be lost?

If eternal security is not true, will you be saved for not helping that widow who lives in your community and is in need of a comforting visit from you while you are worrying about a Christian who may commit adultery here on CC? Living in adultery is just the a speck in the world of sin that will touch your life today. There is absolutely no way that you can work your way out of it. That is why God sent you a Savior. Stop trying to work to him and let him work through you. When you truly believe in him, you will be saved. You will have no doubt about your Salvation.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

And one more thing on this subject I wish I had said on the last post about willful sin.Every sin that is committed by man is seen as sin to GOD;There is no big sin or small sin to him,its just sin.

but for man(talking about the flesh) there is willful sin.Hence Romans 12:1-2.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

THis is more or less what the Gnostics believed, that sinning affects the flesh but not the spirit leading Jude to say "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ"

Please let me know your understanding of 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18,19. I would also like to know when we are born of someone - How do we become "unborn"? Just curious - Thanks.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here is another false representation of what I've been saying. Will it ever end?

its all they have. they can;t admit they are wrong about anything you say or believe, if they could be wrong about this, They may be wrong about everything.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

One cannot do his own righteousness to be accepted with God, one must work God's righteousness to be accepted with God Rom 10:3; Acts 10:35

ANY sin a Christian has not repented of will cause loss of salvation. How many sins will one carry into heaven with him?

True about one cannot do his own righteous and I agree with working GODs righteousness if you are talking about the inward man to the outward man.

ANY sin a Christian has not repented of will cause loss of salvation

your spirit has been sealed and does not participate in that sin,but out of respect for GOD you should say I'm sorry for letting the weakness of my flesh influence me,and then keeping walking(sanctification).

Romans 12:1-2

king james version(kjv)

[SUP]1.)[/SUP] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[SUP]

2.)[/SUP] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[Atwood]

And one more thing on this subject I wish I had said on the last post about willful sin.Every sin that is committed by man is seen as sin to GOD;There is no big sin or small sin to him,its just sin.

but for man(talking about the flesh) there is willful sin.Hence Romans 12:1-2.

Well, you post no proof for that one.
As a matter of fact the word does recognize degrees of sin. As the Lord Jesus said in speaking to Pilate about the greater sin. There are weightier matters, and less important matters. Of course any sin is a sin vs our infinite holy God, and most serious. The Bible also distinguishes presumptuous sin as particularly evil.