One taken,one left. The rapture.

[TheDivineWatermark]

YES, there are episodes of God pouring out His Wrath = Noah & Lot escaped are given to us as examples.

YES, God also was poured out, in part, His wrath upon the nation Israel when He sent the Babylonians.

Right. Even Luke 21:23,20's "and WRATH upon this people" speaks of the events surrounding 70ad. (Corresponding with other related passages speaking of same.)

However, when it comes to the passage speaking of: "the One delivering US out-from THE WRATH COMING"... this means there is a "wrath COMING" (i.e. an eschatological "wrath" COMING [that is, on the earth]) - 1Th1:10

(I think we are in agreement on that point... we just differ as to its duration and what all it entails = ) )

 

[DavidTree]

HERE IS 1
Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.

48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.

49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.



HERE IS ANOTHER

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.



HERE IS YET ANOTHER

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


THERE ARE 3. What are your thoughts about those 3 resurrections? Do you think of the first as only the SAVED UNDER THE NEW COVENANT and not those who rose UNDER the NEW COVENANT but died under the old? And I won't ask any more questions right now.

There is only one singular FIRST Resurrection which is the CUMMALATIVE COMPLETE FINAL Resurrection for the Just.

Those previous resurrections were NOT the Transformation into Eternal Glorified Bodies.

Those previous resurrections were to demonstrate God's Power over Death and that JESUS is ECHAD with the Father and Holy Spirit.

Thus JESUS is Elohim(Plural) from Genesis who made man in the Image of Elohim(Plural) according to THEIR Likeness.

Thus the commandment fronm Elohim to us, today, found in Exodus 3

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
15God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.

 

[kleronomos]

Start with this one - 1 Thess 1:9-10

For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God,
10and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Notice how the Apostle ties in as one event = the Second Coming + Resurrection + Deliverance/Wrath

Deliverance for the Just
Wrath upon the disobedient

The disobedient will further be described as the "rebellion" and "falling away" by Paul in his 2nd Letter to Thessalonica believers.

This doesn't use the exact words but still makes the point

Revelation 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

 

[kleronomos]

This doesn't use the exact words but still makes the point

Revelation 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

and
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[kleronomos]

There is only one singular FIRST Resurrection which is the CUMMALATIVE COMPLETE FINAL Resurrection for the Just.

Those previous resurrections were NOT the Transformation into Eternal Glorified Bodies.

Those previous resurrections were to demonstrate God's Power over Death and that JESUS is ECHAD with the Father and Holy Spirit.

Thus JESUS is Elohim(Plural) from Genesis who made man in the Image of Elohim(Plural) according to THEIR Likeness.

Thus the commandment fronm Elohim to us, today, found in Exodus 3

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
15God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.

How do you tell the difference? And where do I read of a 'glorified body'?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I know of no one but postribbers selling "secret rapture".
I think the reason your vision is clouded is those bizarre accusations.

If it’s pre-trib then it must be secret, otherwise it ain’t gonna be secret. All those “bizarre accusations” come from you pre-trib cowards, not anybody else, so why don’t you drop the act and quit playing innocent.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Rrdrdddddrrrrrrdrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrdrrrrrrdrrrdddddrdrdrdrdrdrrrrrdrrrrrdrdrdrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Maybe speech therapy?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Singular First Resurrection is for the Just = Revelation 2:11 and 20:1-6

After the Thousand Years the Great White Throne = Rev 20:7-15

Neither of these are pre-wrath.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Start with this one - 1 Thess 1:9-10

For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God,
10and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Notice how the Apostle ties in as one event = the Second Coming + Resurrection + Deliverance/Wrath

OK, if you understand "wrath" as the LoF, sure. I have no problem seeing the 3 sets of 7 judgments (seals, trumpets, bowls) as God's wrath on earth as well.

Deliverance for the Just
Wrath upon the disobedient

I much prefer clarify. Salvation for the believer, condemnation for the unbeliever.

 

[Nehemiah6]

All those “bizarre accusations” come from you pre-trib cowards...

How can that be true when one has to be courageous enough to swim against the tide?

 

[FreeGrace2]

How do you tell the difference? And where do I read of a 'glorified body'?

1 Cor 15:43 - it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;

 

[DavidTree]

How do you tell the difference? And where do I read of a 'glorified body'?

1 Cor ch15 and 1 John 3:1-3

 

[DavidTree]

Neither of these are pre-wrath.

Pre-God's wrath but not satan's.

When i say 'pre' i am referencing 1 Thess 1:10 & 5:9 and Genesis along with the prophets Noah, Daniel & Job.

So my 'pre' means we are not and will not be under God's wrath.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Pre-God's wrath but not satan's.

When i say 'pre' i am referencing 1 Thess 1:10 & 5:9

None of these passages clarify WHOSE "wrath"... it just states "the One delivering us out-from THE WRATH COMING" (eschatological "wrath" coming on the earth)... and "not appointed us unto WRATH, but [/contrariwise]..."



The texts do not state "only GOD's wrath" (as though Satan's "wrath" is EXCLUDED... but the text does NOT limit it in this way...you are imposing this idea upon the text, not specified here)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ And further, there are other connections I won't get into here but have explained in past posts


(IOW, only by isolating these 2 Thessalonians texts would one come to the conclusion that this is speaking only of "God's wrath" and not also including "Satan's wrath" [coming on the earth] or any other means of wrath [regarding same "future, specific, LIMITED" time-frame])

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

How can that be true when one has to be courageous enough to swim against the tide?

“Secret rapture” IS the “tide”. It’s been mainstream interpretation of eschatology since Darby and Scofield invented it.

 

[DavidTree]

None of these passages clarify WHOSE "wrath"... it just states "the One delivering us out-from THE WRATH COMING" (eschatological "wrath" coming on the earth)... and "not appointed us unto WRATH, but [/contrariwise]..."



The texts do not state "only GOD's wrath" (as though Satan's "wrath" is EXCLUDED... but the text does NOT limit it in this way...you are imposing this idea upon the text, not specified here)

Concerning 'End Time Events' = the Scripture has made a very clear distinction between the Wrath of God/Lamb/King and the wrath of satan which is easily recognized by the Spirit filled Believer who studies Scripture for Truth verses study scripture for religious gain.

 

[DavidTree]

“Secret rapture” IS the “tide”. It’s been mainstream interpretation of eschatology since Darby and Scofield invented it.

All the churches i have been to as well as main stream USA Christianity will tell you (non-stop 24/7) get ready for the rapture = any day now.

Try and show them the Word of Truth and they will shout you down and show you the door.

John McArthur says some real perverse and corrupt things against Scripture to make sure it is pre-trib rapture.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

All the churches i have been to as well as main stream USA Christianity will tell you (non-stop 24/7) get ready for the rapture = any day now.

Try and show them the Word of Truth and they will shout you down and show you the door.

John McArthur says some real perverse and corrupt things against Scripture to make sure it is pre-trib rapture.

That's fine. As one of the few pastors who opened his church against the lockdown order, he's always my hero.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Concerning 'End Time Events' = the Scripture has made a very clear distinction between the Wrath of God/Lamb/King and the wrath of satan which is easily recognized by the Spirit filled Believer who studies Scripture for Truth verses study scripture for religious gain.

I'm not denying that God's wrath over-arches all others (of that eschatological time-period being referenced) that will also be involved (i.e. like "the devil/Satan... having great wrath because..."), similarly to how God used the "Chaldeans / Babylonians" (Hab1:6,12) "O LORD, thou hast ordained them [the Chaldeans / Babylonians] FOR / TO EXECUTE judgment; and O mighty God, thou hast established them [the Chaldeans / Babylonians] FOR correction"; So when we trace out all the passages of Scripture that connect with the Revelation passages, we can see where "wrath" is indeed being referenced (though not necessarily spelled out as such in various Rev verses). Only by DIVORCING these things which are connected, can one come to the conclusion (commonly and mistakenly said), "well, Revelation isn't calling 'such-and-such' GOD'S wrath..." that one can come to the conclusions you are putting forth here (as though God's "wrath" is not at back of it)