One taken,one left. The rapture.
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FreeGrace2 said:
Neither of these are pre-wrath.
I have shown you where believers can certainly be under God's wrath.
Eph 5-
1 Follow God’s example, therefore, as dearly loved children
2 and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.
4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.
5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
The context begins with "dearly loved children", obviously referring to believers in v.1.
v.2 tells God's children how to live.
v.3 and 4 tells God's chidren how NOT to live.
v.5 explains WHY children are not to live immorally, impurely or greedily. It's NOT proper for God's children. They will have no inheritance in the kingdom. It does not say they will not be in the kingdom.
v.6 says plainly that God's WRATH comes on those (children) who are disobedient.
And, again, Rev 3:10 is a promise ONLY for those who have endured patiently. God's wrath will surely kill lots of disobedient believers in the Tribulation.
Neither of these are pre-wrath.
I have shown you where believers can certainly be under God's wrath.
Eph 5-
1 Follow God’s example, therefore, as dearly loved children
2 and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.
4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.
5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
The context begins with "dearly loved children", obviously referring to believers in v.1.
v.2 tells God's children how to live.
v.3 and 4 tells God's chidren how NOT to live.
v.5 explains WHY children are not to live immorally, impurely or greedily. It's NOT proper for God's children. They will have no inheritance in the kingdom. It does not say they will not be in the kingdom.
v.6 says plainly that God's WRATH comes on those (children) who are disobedient.
And, again, Rev 3:10 is a promise ONLY for those who have endured patiently. God's wrath will surely kill lots of disobedient believers in the Tribulation.
Of course Jesus' Second Advent will be a "local event". He comes to Jerusalem. That's local.
You mean, kinda like Christmas eve when Santa visits all the little children world wide?
No dilemma at all. Until Jesus returns at the Second Advent, all the saints in heaven got there by DYING first.
Anyone who thinks they got there by rapture is deceiving themselves. There is NO trip to heaven for glorified believers. Or the Bible would have included that information.
You mean, kinda like Christmas eve when Santa visits all the little children world wide?
No dilemma at all. Until Jesus returns at the Second Advent, all the saints in heaven got there by DYING first.
Anyone who thinks they got there by rapture is deceiving themselves. There is NO trip to heaven for glorified believers. Or the Bible would have included that information.
The judgments poured out at the end are described in Revelation. It is not just one judgment that takes out all the wicked and leaves those who are ready behind. It is a series of judgments. Therefore those left behind are left to receive the out pouring of judgments while those taken are gathered together in one place of safety with Christ.
They don't ask Jesus where those left behind go. If they understood Jesus as saying that the ones that were ready and were safe were the disciples and that they were to see themselves as left behind then they would not ask "where?"
If they understood Jesus as saying that the disciples, themselves who are ready, were taken somewhere to escape the judgments then they would ask "Where Lord?" And Jesus answered them using a metaphor or how when they look up in the sky (not the ground) and see how the vultures gather in a circle together in the sky when a body is found that is what it will be like. Saved people will be gathered to Christ from all over, in the clouds in the air.
Be ready.
They don't ask Jesus where those left behind go. If they understood Jesus as saying that the ones that were ready and were safe were the disciples and that they were to see themselves as left behind then they would not ask "where?"
If they understood Jesus as saying that the disciples, themselves who are ready, were taken somewhere to escape the judgments then they would ask "Where Lord?" And Jesus answered them using a metaphor or how when they look up in the sky (not the ground) and see how the vultures gather in a circle together in the sky when a body is found that is what it will be like. Saved people will be gathered to Christ from all over, in the clouds in the air.
Be ready.
Noah carried miles high into the sky on top of the water.
Re read it.
All examples prejudgment.
You got it backwards.
That is why it is explicit ,to pattern prejudgment removal.
Vividly portrayed so you guys would not miss it.
The reason you miss it, is loyalty to a doctrine.
It is bizarre.
All you guys are unaware that Jesus never used POSTjudgment removal for the rapture.
Show me postjudgment removal in Jesus depiction of the rapture.
All Jesus' depictions of the rapture are prejudgment.
All are omitted/Reframed in postribber teachings.
Kinda like how we can all see in the thread
Re read it.
All examples prejudgment.
You got it backwards.
That is why it is explicit ,to pattern prejudgment removal.
Vividly portrayed so you guys would not miss it.
The reason you miss it, is loyalty to a doctrine.
It is bizarre.
All you guys are unaware that Jesus never used POSTjudgment removal for the rapture.
Show me postjudgment removal in Jesus depiction of the rapture.
All Jesus' depictions of the rapture are prejudgment.
All are omitted/Reframed in postribber teachings.
Kinda like how we can all see in the thread
Focus in on this: "and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come."
"For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
"The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom."
"
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. 4He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
5Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? 6And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.
All this is clear evidence of God’s righteous judgment. And so you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well. This will take place when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might, 10on the day He comes to be glorified in His saints and regarded with wonder by all who have believed, including you who have believed our testimony.
There is a Day appointed = the Day of the Lord = the wrath of the Lamb at His Coming = upon those who refused the Truth
The Day of the Lord is at His Coming but the FIRST thing HE does is the FIRST Resurrection/rapture/Transformation into Glorified Bodies of the Elect.
"For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
"The LORD has made all for Himself, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom."
"
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. 3Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness—the son of destruction—is revealed. 4He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
5Do you not remember that I told you these things while I was still with you? 6And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.
All this is clear evidence of God’s righteous judgment. And so you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6After all, it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7and to grant relief to you who are oppressed and to us as well. This will take place when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might, 10on the day He comes to be glorified in His saints and regarded with wonder by all who have believed, including you who have believed our testimony.
There is a Day appointed = the Day of the Lord = the wrath of the Lamb at His Coming = upon those who refused the Truth
The Day of the Lord is at His Coming but the FIRST thing HE does is the FIRST Resurrection/rapture/Transformation into Glorified Bodies of the Elect.
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Here is the post judgment:
Revelation 19, after the vials and all that.
Matthew 24:29-31, AFTER.
Egypt, AFTER. When Israel was protected while on the earth, from the plagues that were put on Egypt. Same thing happening in the book of revelation.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 the famous rapture passage, AFTER judgments have been poured out on this earth, at the COMING of the Lord, who is coming back once, not twice.
Revelation 19, after the vials and all that.
Matthew 24:29-31, AFTER.
Egypt, AFTER. When Israel was protected while on the earth, from the plagues that were put on Egypt. Same thing happening in the book of revelation.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 the famous rapture passage, AFTER judgments have been poured out on this earth, at the COMING of the Lord, who is coming back once, not twice.
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When Jesus said "I come as a thief", that "thief" is a reference of Satan in John 10:1 and 10:10 - who comes to steal, kill and destroy! That's why the "thief" must be revealed first as it is told in 2 Thess. 2:2-3! Jesus returns at an hour you do not expect (Matt 24:44) not because He returns secretly out of nowhere, but because YOU ARE NOT EXPECTING when you should be expecting!
This is what happens when you leave out context.
That statement is in the "one taken/left" dynamic.
So....
We read in that mat 24 ch.
"Before the flood"
"One taken/left"
"Watch and be ready."
You can not cancel it, omit it, or reframe it.
It will not go away.
Always remember context.
Leave out context and you can make most any verse say what you need it to.
That statement is in the "one taken/left" dynamic.
So....
We read in that mat 24 ch.
"Before the flood"
"One taken/left"
"Watch and be ready."
You can not cancel it, omit it, or reframe it.
It will not go away.
Always remember context.
Leave out context and you can make most any verse say what you need it to.
What "rapture model"? The Bible says nothing about Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
The Bible DOES say that at the Second Advent, "when He comes" (1 Cor 15:23) ALL believers (those who belong to Him - 1 Cor 15:23) will be resurrected/given glorified bodies. Then, ALL believers will be with Jesus forever (1 Thess 4) and will serve or reign with Him in His Millennial kingdom.
The Bible DOES say that at the Second Advent, "when He comes" (1 Cor 15:23) ALL believers (those who belong to Him - 1 Cor 15:23) will be resurrected/given glorified bodies. Then, ALL believers will be with Jesus forever (1 Thess 4) and will serve or reign with Him in His Millennial kingdom.
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