One taken,one left. The rapture.
- Thread starter Absolutely
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Absolutely said:
Nope
CLEARLY AND VIVIDLY lot was taken away.
Judgment followed.
Lot removed prior to judgment.
You need it to say something else
So you made it say what you needed it to say.
Talking to thyself again? And is this an example of "tongues"?
Nope
CLEARLY AND VIVIDLY lot was taken away.
Judgment followed.
Lot removed prior to judgment.
You need it to say something else
So you made it say what you needed it to say.
Talking to thyself again? And is this an example of "tongues"?
Absolutely said:
yes the dead are raised in that 1 thes 4 verse.
That is the point, actually.
And this is the problem with a pretrib rapture. The Bible teaches that there is just one resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved. So placing a resurrection before the Trib then violates Rev 20:4,5 and the trib martyrs who are resurrected, which is called the FIRST resurrection.
They can't handle Rev 20 so they ignore it every time.
yes the dead are raised in that 1 thes 4 verse.
That is the point, actually.
And this is the problem with a pretrib rapture. The Bible teaches that there is just one resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved. So placing a resurrection before the Trib then violates Rev 20:4,5 and the trib martyrs who are resurrected, which is called the FIRST resurrection.
They can't handle Rev 20 so they ignore it every time.
"before the flood" no one "perished" or was "DESTROYED [G622] [ALL]"
In the Noah illustration (Jesus is using), the "one taken" was [and will be] "taken away IN JUDGMENT"... and the other "left" was [and will be] "left on the earth [in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing / bearing children... in order to "[actively] FILL [FILLED] the [whole] earth" Dan2:35c (future) / Gen9:1 (past) / Matt24&Lk17 (future, using these "past" examples) ["the number of whom is at the sand of the sea" Rev20:8 in the earthly MK age, by the END of it]
...but ^ what was stated to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [US] (to/for/about whom the "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" SOLELY pertains, NOT to all other "saints" of all OTHER time periods), this [is said, instead]:
"...that, WHETHER WE MIGHT WATCH [same Greek word and context/meaning as IN VERSE 6 a few verses earlier] *OR* WHETHER WE MIGHT SLEEP [same Greek word and context/meaning as IN VERSE 6 a few verses earlier (NOT he "sleep" word meaning "sleep IN DEATH" that the PREVIOUS CHPT used!! NO!)], we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-WITH] Him."
Indeed there are distinctions that you are completely disregarding, in your quest to cling to your (incorrect) idea that the text sates, "before the flood they [Noah and crew] WERE TAKEN AWAY [i.e. like a "rapture"]"... which is NOT what the text is actually conveying, but rather what "your big idea" is IMPOSING upon the text.
I know... you love me.
[again, for the readers: I do not believe the "Noah" and "Lot" examples are illustrating / representing "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"... but persons ('saints') who will be preserved THROUGH the tribulation period, and who will remain on the earth (i.e. be the ones "left") at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth, TO ENTER (as the "BLESSED") the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age IN THEIR MORTAL BODIES (capable of reproducing / bearing children--the ONLY ones at that point who will have that capacity--the "resurrected saints" will NOT have that capacity, though they will also be [resurrected IN TIME FOR to be also] present to enjoy the MK age)... and due to the "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL" that occurs then, NO "UNBELIEVERS" will be "BLESSED" to ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age... however, the children [/grandchildren, etc] born to them will not be "BORN automatically RIGHTEOUS" and it is THESE ONLY who will be susceptible to "death" in the MK age, which will be MUCH MORE RARE and reserved ONLY for the rebellious (in the MK age)]
In the Noah illustration (Jesus is using), the "one taken" was [and will be] "taken away IN JUDGMENT"... and the other "left" was [and will be] "left on the earth [in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing / bearing children... in order to "[actively] FILL [FILLED] the [whole] earth" Dan2:35c (future) / Gen9:1 (past) / Matt24&Lk17 (future, using these "past" examples) ["the number of whom is at the sand of the sea" Rev20:8 in the earthly MK age, by the END of it]
...but ^ what was stated to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [US] (to/for/about whom the "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" SOLELY pertains, NOT to all other "saints" of all OTHER time periods), this [is said, instead]:
"...that, WHETHER WE MIGHT WATCH [same Greek word and context/meaning as IN VERSE 6 a few verses earlier] *OR* WHETHER WE MIGHT SLEEP [same Greek word and context/meaning as IN VERSE 6 a few verses earlier (NOT he "sleep" word meaning "sleep IN DEATH" that the PREVIOUS CHPT used!! NO!)], we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-WITH] Him."
Indeed there are distinctions that you are completely disregarding, in your quest to cling to your (incorrect) idea that the text sates, "before the flood they [Noah and crew] WERE TAKEN AWAY [i.e. like a "rapture"]"... which is NOT what the text is actually conveying, but rather what "your big idea" is IMPOSING upon the text.
I know... you love me.
[again, for the readers: I do not believe the "Noah" and "Lot" examples are illustrating / representing "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"... but persons ('saints') who will be preserved THROUGH the tribulation period, and who will remain on the earth (i.e. be the ones "left") at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth, TO ENTER (as the "BLESSED") the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age IN THEIR MORTAL BODIES (capable of reproducing / bearing children--the ONLY ones at that point who will have that capacity--the "resurrected saints" will NOT have that capacity, though they will also be [resurrected IN TIME FOR to be also] present to enjoy the MK age)... and due to the "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL" that occurs then, NO "UNBELIEVERS" will be "BLESSED" to ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age... however, the children [/grandchildren, etc] born to them will not be "BORN automatically RIGHTEOUS" and it is THESE ONLY who will be susceptible to "death" in the MK age, which will be MUCH MORE RARE and reserved ONLY for the rebellious (in the MK age)]
Ok
I just noticed something.
In mat 24, we see the coming after the trib, the second coming on horses.
(The postribbers only verses)
I skimmed over those verses,(3 through 36 or so ) ,and never noticed the command by Jesus to watch and be ready.
Hmmmm.
But then when Jesus Switches timing and setting to " before the flood", we see him implore us to do that .
5 times Jesus implores us "watch and be ready" in the ptetrib dynamic (from around vs 38 to 51).
Woah
The pretrib rapture keeps building in authenticity, practically daily
I just noticed something.
In mat 24, we see the coming after the trib, the second coming on horses.
(The postribbers only verses)
I skimmed over those verses,(3 through 36 or so ) ,and never noticed the command by Jesus to watch and be ready.
Hmmmm.
But then when Jesus Switches timing and setting to " before the flood", we see him implore us to do that .
5 times Jesus implores us "watch and be ready" in the ptetrib dynamic (from around vs 38 to 51).
Woah
The pretrib rapture keeps building in authenticity, practically daily
Oh... and P.S. to the readers: "and DESTROYED [G622] [ALL]" is a distinct Greek word and definition to that of the other text stating "sudden DESTRUCTION cometh UPON them... and THEY [certain ones] shall NOT 'escape [<--SAME word / idea and same TIME-period that Lk21:36 also speaks of, which is NOT a "RAPTURE" verse... it's a TRIB PERIOD verse]'"
"before the flood" no one "perished" or was "DESTROYED [G622] [ALL]"
In the Noah illustration (Jesus is using), the "one taken" was [and will be] "taken away IN JUDGMENT"... and the other "left" was [and will be] "left on the earth [in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing / bearing children... in order to "[actively] FILL [FILLED] the [whole] earth" Dan2:35c (future) / Gen9:1 (past) / Matt24&Lk17 (future, using these "past" examples) ["the number of whom is at the sand of the sea" Rev20:8 in the earthly MK age, by the END of it]
...but what was stated to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (to/for/about whom the "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" SOLELY pertains, NOT to all other "saints" of all OTHER time periods), this [is said, instead]:
"...that, WHETHER WE MIGHT WATCH [same Greek word and context/meaning as IN VERSE 6 a few verses earlier] *OR* WHETHER WE MIGHT SLEEP [same Greek word and context/meaning as IN VERSE 6 a few verses earlier (NOT he "sleep" word meaning "sleep IN DEATH" that the PREVIOUS CHPT used!! NO!)], we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-WITH] Him."
Indeed there are distinctions that you are completely disregarding, in your quest to cling to your (incorrect) idea that the text sates, "before the flood they [Noah and crew] WERE TAKEN AWAY [i.e. like a "rapture"]"... which is NOT what the text is actually conveying, but rather what "your big idea" is IMPOSING upon the text.
I know... you love me.
[again, for the readers: I do not believe the "Noah" and "Lot" examples are illustrating / representing "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"... but persons ('saints') who will be preserved THROUGH the tribulation period, and who will remain on the earth (i.e. be the ones "left") at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth, TO ENTER (as the "BLESSED") the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age IN THEIR MORTAL BODIES (capable of reproducing / bearing children--the ONLY ones at that point who will have that capacity--the "resurrected saints" will NOT have that capacity, though they will also be [resurrected IN TIME FOR to be also] present to enjoy the MK age)... and due to the "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL" that occurs then, NO "UNBELIEVERS" will be "BLESSED" to ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age... however, the children [/grandchildren, etc] born to them will not be "BORN automatically RIGHTEOUS" and it is THESE ONLY who will be susceptible to "death" in the MK age, which will be MUCH MORE RARE and reserved ONLY for the rebellious (in the MK age)]
In the Noah illustration (Jesus is using), the "one taken" was [and will be] "taken away IN JUDGMENT"... and the other "left" was [and will be] "left on the earth [in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing / bearing children... in order to "[actively] FILL [FILLED] the [whole] earth" Dan2:35c (future) / Gen9:1 (past) / Matt24&Lk17 (future, using these "past" examples) ["the number of whom is at the sand of the sea" Rev20:8 in the earthly MK age, by the END of it]
...but what was stated to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (to/for/about whom the "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" SOLELY pertains, NOT to all other "saints" of all OTHER time periods), this [is said, instead]:
"...that, WHETHER WE MIGHT WATCH [same Greek word and context/meaning as IN VERSE 6 a few verses earlier] *OR* WHETHER WE MIGHT SLEEP [same Greek word and context/meaning as IN VERSE 6 a few verses earlier (NOT he "sleep" word meaning "sleep IN DEATH" that the PREVIOUS CHPT used!! NO!)], we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-WITH] Him."
Indeed there are distinctions that you are completely disregarding, in your quest to cling to your (incorrect) idea that the text sates, "before the flood they [Noah and crew] WERE TAKEN AWAY [i.e. like a "rapture"]"... which is NOT what the text is actually conveying, but rather what "your big idea" is IMPOSING upon the text.
I know... you love me.
[again, for the readers: I do not believe the "Noah" and "Lot" examples are illustrating / representing "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"... but persons ('saints') who will be preserved THROUGH the tribulation period, and who will remain on the earth (i.e. be the ones "left") at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth, TO ENTER (as the "BLESSED") the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age IN THEIR MORTAL BODIES (capable of reproducing / bearing children--the ONLY ones at that point who will have that capacity--the "resurrected saints" will NOT have that capacity, though they will also be [resurrected IN TIME FOR to be also] present to enjoy the MK age)... and due to the "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL" that occurs then, NO "UNBELIEVERS" will be "BLESSED" to ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age... however, the children [/grandchildren, etc] born to them will not be "BORN automatically RIGHTEOUS" and it is THESE ONLY who will be susceptible to "death" in the MK age, which will be MUCH MORE RARE and reserved ONLY for the rebellious (in the MK age)]
The only one that had any different dynamic pre flood was noah.
He went into the ark. Ark is a type of heaven.
Before the flood , we have:
One group had normal life
One group entered the ark.
Both groups get " taken away" in the flood.
( Noah to the sky, the others to "trying to survive").
There is zero there of "wicked taken first".
Same in the pretrib rapture.
Plus there is nothing there of A "post flood " anything ,other than that they returned to earth (mirroring the pretrib raptured ones in heaven and returning, as did noah, post judgment).
How do you explain this ^ , Abs?
And BESIDES that, also consider what I'd said about how Matthew 24:36-51 PARALLELS Luke 12:35-48, and in THAT passage spells out "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom)... THEN the MEAL [G347; used also in Matt8:11 and parallel, speaking of the EARTHLY MK age]
"before the flood" no one "perished" or was "DESTROYED [G622] [ALL]"
In the Noah illustration (Jesus is using), the "one taken" was [and will be] "taken away IN JUDGMENT"... and the other "left" was [and will be] "left on the earth [in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing / bearing children... in order to "[actively] FILL [FILLED] the [whole] earth" Dan2:35c (future) / Gen9:1 (past) / Matt24&Lk17 (future, using these "past" examples) ["the number of whom is at the sand of the sea" Rev20:8 in the earthly MK age, by the END of it]
...but ^ what was stated to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [US] (to/for/about whom the "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" SOLELY pertains, NOT to all other "saints" of all OTHER time periods), this [is said, instead]:
"...that, WHETHER WE MIGHT WATCH [same Greek word and context/meaning as IN VERSE 6 a few verses earlier] *OR* WHETHER WE MIGHT SLEEP [same Greek word and context/meaning as IN VERSE 6 a few verses earlier (NOT he "sleep" word meaning "sleep IN DEATH" that the PREVIOUS CHPT used!! NO!)], we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-WITH] Him."
Indeed there are distinctions that you are completely disregarding, in your quest to cling to your (incorrect) idea that the text sates, "before the flood they [Noah and crew] WERE TAKEN AWAY [i.e. like a "rapture"]"... which is NOT what the text is actually conveying, but rather what "your big idea" is IMPOSING upon the text.
I know... you love me.
[again, for the readers: I do not believe the "Noah" and "Lot" examples are illustrating / representing "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"... but persons ('saints') who will be preserved THROUGH the tribulation period, and who will remain on the earth (i.e. be the ones "left") at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth, TO ENTER (as the "BLESSED") the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age IN THEIR MORTAL BODIES (capable of reproducing / bearing children--the ONLY ones at that point who will have that capacity--the "resurrected saints" will NOT have that capacity, though they will also be [resurrected IN TIME FOR to be also] present to enjoy the MK age)... and due to the "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL" that occurs then, NO "UNBELIEVERS" will be "BLESSED" to ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age... however, the children [/grandchildren, etc] born to them will not be "BORN automatically RIGHTEOUS" and it is THESE ONLY who will be susceptible to "death" in the MK age, which will be MUCH MORE RARE and reserved ONLY for the rebellious (in the MK age)]
In the Noah illustration (Jesus is using), the "one taken" was [and will be] "taken away IN JUDGMENT"... and the other "left" was [and will be] "left on the earth [in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing / bearing children... in order to "[actively] FILL [FILLED] the [whole] earth" Dan2:35c (future) / Gen9:1 (past) / Matt24&Lk17 (future, using these "past" examples) ["the number of whom is at the sand of the sea" Rev20:8 in the earthly MK age, by the END of it]
...but ^ what was stated to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" [US] (to/for/about whom the "Rapture [IN THE AIR]" SOLELY pertains, NOT to all other "saints" of all OTHER time periods), this [is said, instead]:
"...that, WHETHER WE MIGHT WATCH [same Greek word and context/meaning as IN VERSE 6 a few verses earlier] *OR* WHETHER WE MIGHT SLEEP [same Greek word and context/meaning as IN VERSE 6 a few verses earlier (NOT he "sleep" word meaning "sleep IN DEATH" that the PREVIOUS CHPT used!! NO!)], we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-WITH] Him."
Indeed there are distinctions that you are completely disregarding, in your quest to cling to your (incorrect) idea that the text sates, "before the flood they [Noah and crew] WERE TAKEN AWAY [i.e. like a "rapture"]"... which is NOT what the text is actually conveying, but rather what "your big idea" is IMPOSING upon the text.
I know... you love me.
[again, for the readers: I do not believe the "Noah" and "Lot" examples are illustrating / representing "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"... but persons ('saints') who will be preserved THROUGH the tribulation period, and who will remain on the earth (i.e. be the ones "left") at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth, TO ENTER (as the "BLESSED") the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age IN THEIR MORTAL BODIES (capable of reproducing / bearing children--the ONLY ones at that point who will have that capacity--the "resurrected saints" will NOT have that capacity, though they will also be [resurrected IN TIME FOR to be also] present to enjoy the MK age)... and due to the "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL" that occurs then, NO "UNBELIEVERS" will be "BLESSED" to ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age... however, the children [/grandchildren, etc] born to them will not be "BORN automatically RIGHTEOUS" and it is THESE ONLY who will be susceptible to "death" in the MK age, which will be MUCH MORE RARE and reserved ONLY for the rebellious (in the MK age)]
No, you're MISSING my point.
[that] Whether WE MAY WATCH *OR* whether we may SLEEP [i.e. NOT "WATCH"] makes NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER (regarding "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" event)... we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-WITH] Him"... note: not the "with [G3326 - accompanying] Him into the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" that is stated of the "5 [wise] virginS [PLURAL]" whom He is NOT coming at that point for the PURPOSE of "MARRYING" THEM!!)
[that] Whether WE MAY WATCH *OR* whether we may SLEEP [i.e. NOT "WATCH"] makes NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER (regarding "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" event)... we should live together WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-WITH] Him"... note: not the "with [G3326 - accompanying] Him into the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" that is stated of the "5 [wise] virginS [PLURAL]" whom He is NOT coming at that point for the PURPOSE of "MARRYING" THEM!!)
As I said, EVERYTHING in Matthew 24:4 ONWARD is covering what will take place FOLLOWING "our Rapture" (i.e. the beginning of birth PANGS = the SEALS at the START of the TRIB YEARS).
Jesus, in His Olivet Discourse, is covering the Subject of His Second Coming to the earth (FOR the EARTHLY MK age), and the specific, LIMITED time-period that immediately precedes and LEADS UP to THAT (aka describing the TRIB YEARS)
Jesus, in His Olivet Discourse, is covering the Subject of His Second Coming to the earth (FOR the EARTHLY MK age), and the specific, LIMITED time-period that immediately precedes and LEADS UP to THAT (aka describing the TRIB YEARS)
The bride is the new Jerusalem and the church that fills it . It’s what Jesus and Paul were explaining. It says what it says nothing is going to change it we aren’t supposed to ignore doctrine and try to imagine what revelation might mean
we’re meant to accept doctrine and that makes revelation clear. But I digress my experience is when someone’s convinced it doesn’t matter what the word has to say there’s always a way to spin it into what it isn’t
Jesus isn’t wrong about the order of his return forms it’s enough because he taught of gathering his people after the tribulation just before the wrath is poured upon the earth
Paul then adds more understanding and plants it firmly where Jesus said it is but we’re all different sometimes we want to figure out what isn’t there and not accept what is what’s written plainly is my own belief
But you are definately free to figure it out as you choose also. Honestly many generations have passed with people expecting Jesus return and tethering his people and never saw it happen. We probably won’t see that day either but we will love our life and die the important part is to accept the gospel and go to be with Jesus
it’s odd that Christians have went through much persecution and tribulation since Jesus was raised up though and never have been raptured as of yet. At least not physically that I know of
we’re meant to accept doctrine and that makes revelation clear. But I digress my experience is when someone’s convinced it doesn’t matter what the word has to say there’s always a way to spin it into what it isn’t
Jesus isn’t wrong about the order of his return forms it’s enough because he taught of gathering his people after the tribulation just before the wrath is poured upon the earth
Paul then adds more understanding and plants it firmly where Jesus said it is but we’re all different sometimes we want to figure out what isn’t there and not accept what is what’s written plainly is my own belief
But you are definately free to figure it out as you choose also. Honestly many generations have passed with people expecting Jesus return and tethering his people and never saw it happen. We probably won’t see that day either but we will love our life and die the important part is to accept the gospel and go to be with Jesus
it’s odd that Christians have went through much persecution and tribulation since Jesus was raised up though and never have been raptured as of yet. At least not physically that I know of
