One taken,one left. The rapture.

[Pilgrimshope]

There is noting whatsoever in noah or lot indicating that

you just answered a post showing those two events Jesus was saying it for a reason

“And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the day of the Son of man.

They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭17:26-30‬ ‭

Do you see what I was saying now ? Lot left and then immediately the angels called down the destruction from heaven

Noah entered the ark to safety and then the floods came and drown them all that’s how it will be when the lord returns in the last generation as soon as he gathers his people from earth and heaven together the earth and heavens will Be destroyed and the saved will fill the new creation

it’s one sudden event just like the days of Noah and lot

“For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

one day Jesus will appear maybe not our generation but some day he will appear with his angels and those who are living on earth and believe will experience this

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as soon as that happens the non believers will experience this

“And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s just one event at the end of the world those who lived in Christ beforehand are in heaven already , those who died in Christ will be raised up , and those who are alive on earth will be caught up together with all his people and him and the rest will have fire reigned upon the earth

he’s only coming back one time to gather his people until then we need to live right and believe so we pass from death To life and don’t have to worry about the other aspect

 

[Pilgrimshope]

"""Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬"""


Rev 14:14 proves that verse You posted is pretrib.

lol really ? You cut out the part that says it’s after the dead are raised brother we’ve both come here to learn havent we ? In order to learn we have to realize we may not have understood before

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it actually “ proves “ that it’s going to be after Jesus returns and the dead are raised and those in that generation who are Will living will be caught up together. With them all.

it’s okay to learn from one another we all don’t have it all figured out I myself have learned a lot since being here but it meant I had to acknolwedge that I didn’t have it figured out before hand . Scripture is really what we should acknolwedge and it’s not a shame or weakness to not understand something and learn from others , it’s actually a strength when we can acknolwedge our understanding isn’t always the right one

I hope you take this the way it’s meant

 

[Jocund]

I suppose you see Jesus taken up into the clouds in acts 1,as some snarky deal also....since it mirrors the rapture of 1 thes 4

If you look at 1 Thes 4, the resurrection happens before the rapture. If your position is that the rapture is pre-trib, does that also mean you believe that the resurrection is pre-trib?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If you look at 1 Thes 4, the resurrection happens before the rapture. If your position is that the rapture is pre-trib, does that also mean you believe that the resurrection is pre-trib?

also it says there in those verses that Jesus will return beforehand

 

[Absolutely]

"before the flood" simply means, the stuff they were doing "before the flood"...

...Noah was "preparing the ark" and being "a preacher of righteousness"...

However (in contrast to him), the "THEY / THEM" who "KNEW NOT UNTIL" (not Noah, HE KNEW and PREPARED THE ARK!)... the "THEY / THEM" who "KNEW NOT UNTIL" are the ones who "PERISHED" in the flood WHEN IT CAME (corresponding with Lk17:27,29's "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL"... that happened IN THE FLOOD... when it "took THEM all away". IOW, they didn't have rubber tubes they floated around on for some 38 or 39 of those days before they "perished" in the flood... no, they "perished" in the flood).

This isn't a picture of what occurs at the time of "our Rapture" (following it, for those still on the earth). Not EVERYONE left at that time will "PERISH" (be "DESTROYED [G622] ALL" - Lk17:27,29). No, many people (previously UNSAVED) will be COMING TO FAITH (following "our Rapture"); whereas many OTHERS will instead "believe the LIE / the FALSE / the PSEUDEI" during that SAME TIME-PERIOD (a completely OPPOSITE "belief" to that of which the other group will be coming to). <--THIS is what is being referenced when it says "in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, UNTIL..." i.e. DISREGARDING the word of God via Noah [see 1Pet3:19-20a (note esp: "WHILE the ark was preparing")] the fact that a certain judgment IS COMING ("and DESTROYED [G622] ALL"... is the parallel point... which I've stated that this is not what takes place for those left on the earth, not participating in "our Rapture" [when SOME will be coming to faith during that time-period, and others will not (instead they will DISREGARD God's Word) during that SAME time-period]...

...rather, it's what takes place at His Second Coming TO THE EARTH Rev19 [and all related passages speaking to this point]... They will NOT *ENTER* the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age... and be among the "BLESSED" [who do enter]... only "the righteous" will ENTER... and instead, these particular ones ['disobedient / unbelieving' as in the days that Noah was preparing the ark "before the flood"] will be the ones referred to in the "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL" group [not occurring just following "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]"--when they are still on the earth--which "RAPTURE" is not the Subject being covered in Jesus' Olivet Discourse ANYWHERE; Recall again, the "SEALS" [at the START of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period we commonly call "the Trib"] are EQUIVALENT "the beginning of "birth PANGS [PLURAL]"... and the INITIAL one of THOSE is what "kicks off" the time-period known as "the day of the Lord"... yes, with judgments unfolding upon the earth over TIME... but NOT the "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL" thing, which is at the END / at His Second Coming TO THE EARTH Rev19 point (and in all the Gospels speaking to that point, which is at the "MANIFESTATION of His presence / parousia" 2Th2:8b, when "EVERY EYE" shall see Him (this is NOT the case when 2Th2:1 occurs!!)])

Before the flood
One taken /left
Watch , wait ,and be ready.

You..." That is not at all what happens at the rapture"
Lol.

Just poking at you.
Lol

 

[Absolutely]

lol really ? You cut out the part that says it’s after the dead are raised brother we’ve both come here to learn havent we ? In order to learn we have to realize we may not have understood before

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it actually “ proves “ that it’s going to be after Jesus returns and the dead are raised and those in that generation who are Will living will be caught up together. With them all.

it’s okay to learn from one another we all don’t have it all figured out I myself have learned a lot since being here but it meant I had to acknolwedge that I didn’t have it figured out before hand . Scripture is really what we should acknolwedge and it’s not a shame or weakness to not understand something and learn from others , it’s actually a strength when we can acknolwedge our understanding isn’t always the right one

I hope you take this the way it’s meant

yes the dead are raised in that 1 thes 4 verse.

That is the point, actually.

 

[Jocund]

yes the dead are raised in that 1 thes 4 verse.

That is the point, actually.

Pretrib resurrection?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Before the flood
One taken /left
Watch , wait ,and be ready.

You..." That is not at all what happens at the rapture"
Lol.

Just poking at you.
Lol

“Watch , wait ,and be ready.”

amen to that !


“For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:2-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

yes the dead are raised in that 1 thes 4 verse.

That is the point, actually.

indeed 1 Jesus will return , 2 the dead will bE raised up and 3 those who are still alive on earth who believe will be “
Raptured “

that’s how the world will end, and the new will Come to be the saved will populate a world beyond death

 

[Absolutely]

you just answered a post showing those two events Jesus was saying it for a reason

“And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the day of the Son of man.

They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭17:26-30‬ ‭

Do you see what I was saying now ? Lot left and then immediately the angels called down the destruction from heaven

Noah entered the ark to safety and then the floods came and drown them all that’s how it will be when the lord returns in the last generation as soon as he gathers his people from earth and heaven together the earth and heavens will Be destroyed and the saved will fill the new creation

it’s one sudden event just like the days of Noah and lot

“For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

one day Jesus will appear maybe not our generation but some day he will appear with his angels and those who are living on earth and believe will experience this

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as soon as that happens the non believers will experience this

“And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s just one event at the end of the world those who lived in Christ beforehand are in heaven already , those who died in Christ will be raised up , and those who are alive on earth will be caught up together with all his people and him and the rest will have fire reigned upon the earth

he’s only coming back one time to gather his people until then we need to live right and believe so we pass from death To life and don’t have to worry about the other aspect

In those dynamics of lot and noah, we have peacetime, normal life, then judgement.
In the postrib rapture model it does not fit because they have warzone, earth half destroyed, a third of mankind dead, billions of believers martyred, and an ac starving out and killing anyone refusing the mark.
It is opposite of what we see in the bible.
So yes what you have modeled there is not biblical.
It is opposite.

 

[Absolutely]

indeed 1 Jesus will return , 2 the dead will bE raised up and 3 those who are still alive on earth who believe will be “
Raptured “

that’s how the world will end, and the new will Come to be the saved will populate a world beyond death

but in rev 19 the second coming on horses there is no rapture.

All rapture verses are pretrib setting....all of them.

 

[Isaskar]

Does not the Scripture also say the Flood "took them away"......?

It does say that, this should settle any and all controversy around the subject.

 

[Isaskar]

Keep reading in that mat 24 ch.
"Before the flood"
"One taken/left"
"Watch and be ready."

You can not cancel it, omit it, or reframe it.
It will not go away.

Where does it say "Before the flood one taken one left?"

 

[Absolutely]

There are two ways to interpret what Jesus said and the word "Taken".
Jesus might have intended to be understood this way. "Just as those at the time of Noah were focused on seeking pleasure in this life with no attempt to repent at the preaching of Noah until they were destroyed by the flood so it will be when Jesus comes back in judgment. People will be focused on seeking their own pleasure in the world ignoring the preachers and call to repentance and it will come upon them and they will experience that judgment and wrath of the Lamb.
We know that the judgment is not just one 24 hours day. It is a series of judgments as spelled out in Revelation. The day of the Lord is a fierce day of wrath where many things will come upon them in a short period of time but but it will not be one where everyone is whipped out in one day.
Therefore one being taken and the other left seems to refer to those that are left are the ones that would suffer the judgments we read about.

There is no one day judgment that we read about. So being taken in one day and only the saved left does not fit the picture of how the judgments are going to be administered.

If the one taken is the one that is judged then we would have to apply each of the examples he gave as occurring on a differernt day. Like one day the woman at the grinding wheel is taken by a 100 lb hail stone. And the other is spared. Another day one is in the field and killed by wild beasts, and another spared. One day someone drinks poisoned water and is taken but another is spared. It gets clumsy and not likely what Jesus intended.

But if we see it as the one taken in the rapture and the other left behind to face judgment because they were not ready for the coming of the Lord it makes sense.

Also if we look at the fact that those who don't have time to go back in their house to get their belongings are the ones taken it is also a picture of the rapture. The one judged is the one who would try and go back for something. Remember Lots wife.

Ok
Somebody is paying attention.
You are one of the few actually thinking and test fitting.

It really can not be " wicked taken"
Does not in any way fit.

But i actually take a lone ranger view.

I contend it is " 2 believers" on a roof, bed, field, factory, etc.

that is the ONLY group that fits the ratio.

2 believers in a bed....is my contention.

A believer in a bed with a devil worshipper.
Not even remotely possible.
Does not fit and never will.

Then the other impossibility:
Postribs have framed the analogy as the worlds population.
So Half are supposedly believers, Half wicked
Not even remotely plausible.
That would assume a bus ,plane, or stadium has half its occupants as saved born again saints.
( that ratio is miles outta whack)

 

[Absolutely]

Where does it say "Before the flood one taken one left?"

mat 24 maybe verse 40 or so.

 

[Absolutely]

It does say that, this should settle any and all controversy around the subject.

We know that is true.
We can see it clearly.
It has always been there.

Nothing there about " taken" after the flood, or, in the middle of the flood.

It is at the start ,or not too far into the start of the flood.

IOW it can not be post flood.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The op is one taken-left.
My post was on target.

Any post that cannot support its main claim (trip to heaven in glorified bodies) cannot be "on target".

 

[FreeGrace2]

There were 3 question asked of Jesus , in mat 24, not one.

When Jesus says "before the flood", in mat 24, i wonder if he meant setting and time frame????

The text is very clear about what Jesus was equating. The lifestyles of people before the flood and before the Trib.

If he did, ( and it is true that he did), then i apparently stand alone in this entire board, of freedom to express it, see it, and analyze it.

Only one, huh. That's illuminating.

Nobody goes there.

Where would you like me to go, specifically?

It is a hidden truth and somehow is scary to this entire board.

Can't speak for the 'entire board', but no one should be scared when they have truth.

Right there . Hidden.

Nobody sees it.

By your own words, there is something hidden. If you know what words mean, that would by WHY "nobody sees it".

But apparently you think you have some kind of speshul glasses that allow ONLY YOU to see things. OK, I'll go with that.

Are you hearing voices too?

 

[Absolutely]

indeed 1 Jesus will return , 2 the dead will bE raised up and 3 those who are still alive on earth who believe will be “
Raptured “

that’s how the world will end, and the new will Come to be the saved will populate a world beyond death

Ok
Now factor in the bride/ groom dynamic.

In that dynamic only the bride is taken.
The other believers who have no investment in getting ready, stay behind.
The rapture is only the bride gathered.
See mat 25.

Mat 25 has the SAME RATIO.

....and Jesus speaks of "both ratios" in the same breath.
50 % taken/left behind.

 

[Absolutely]

Pretrib resurrection?

Yes