One taken,one left. The rapture.
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BY THAT LOGIC CHRIST WOULD HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED AT LEAST 4 DIFFERENT TIMES.
JUST LIKE WE KNOW THAT ONLY TOOK PLACE ONCE, WE USED TO KNOW HE RETURNED for A SECOND TIME, AND USED ALL THOSE DESCRIPTIONS FOUND IN THE VARIOUS LOCATIONS FOR A MORE DETAILED VIEW OF THE EVENT.
and then along came pre trib and caused nothing but questions and chaos 'BY ADDING A DAY', BECAUSE THEY ALL HAVE JESUS RETURNING, BUT WITH DIFFERENT DETAILS.
Matthew 27:44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.
45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.
48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
35 And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calleth Elias.
36 And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.
37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
Luke 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
32 And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
36 And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
37 And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
47 Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.
48 And all the people that came together to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts, and returned.
49 And all his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Galilee, stood afar off, beholding these things.
50 And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just:
51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them
he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
John 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
22 Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.
23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.
25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
BY THAT LOGIC CHRIST WOULD HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED AT LEAST 4 DIFFERENT TIMES.
JUST LIKE WE KNOW THAT ONLY TOOK PLACE ONCE, WE USED TO KNOW HE RETURNED for A SECOND TIME, AND USED ALL THOSE DESCRIPTIONS FOUND IN THE VARIOUS LOCATIONS FOR A MORE DETAILED VIEW OF THE EVENT.
and then along came pre trib and caused nothing but questions and chaos 'BY ADDING A DAY', BECAUSE THEY ALL HAVE JESUS RETURNING, BUT WITH DIFFERENT DETAILS.
Matthew 27:44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.
45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.
48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
35 And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calleth Elias.
36 And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.
37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
Luke 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
32 And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
36 And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
37 And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
47 Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.
48 And all the people that came together to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts, and returned.
49 And all his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Galilee, stood afar off, beholding these things.
50 And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just:
51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.
52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
John 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
22 Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.
23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.
25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
JUST LIKE WE KNOW THAT ONLY TOOK PLACE ONCE, WE USED TO KNOW HE RETURNED for A SECOND TIME, AND USED ALL THOSE DESCRIPTIONS FOUND IN THE VARIOUS LOCATIONS FOR A MORE DETAILED VIEW OF THE EVENT.
and then along came pre trib and caused nothing but questions and chaos 'BY ADDING A DAY', BECAUSE THEY ALL HAVE JESUS RETURNING, BUT WITH DIFFERENT DETAILS.
Matthew 27:44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.
45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.
48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
35 And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calleth Elias.
36 And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.
37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
Luke 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
32 And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
36 And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
37 And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
47 Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.
48 And all the people that came together to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts, and returned.
49 And all his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Galilee, stood afar off, beholding these things.
50 And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just:
51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them
he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
John 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
22 Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.
23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.
25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
Just steer yourself to rev 14:14.
Agree with the bible, that it CANNOT POSSIBLY BE 1 thes 4, nor rev 19 coming on horses.
End game right there.
Plain,clear, vivid, 3 "comings" .
Impossible to make it fit into one "coming" at rev 19.
Word games.
That does not raise red flags to you?
You can fool yourself into some fantasy that the boat never raised up via the water ,into the sky and into the clouds.
Reframe it into hyper generalization that the water is part of earth, and therefore erroneously adapt some analogy of ,"hey Noah never left EARTH therefore the Truth is the boat " never came back"
Hey I got an idea!
We can also void out Lot by saying, " see, he never left EARTH!"
YES JESUS Must BE USING LOT and NOAH alongside the " one taken/ left" to illustrate NO RIGHTEOUS IS EVER TAKEN!!!!
WOW !!!!
WE CAN CHANGE THE WORD ,IF WE TORTURE IT JUST RIGHT!!!
BETTER YET;
Show me one postribber "scholar" that will honestly debate me.
It AIN'T HAPPENING.
I actually got 2 other threads making fools out of every postribber.
They contend the flood was a small one. ( boat never raised up into the clouds)
And the 144k are not who the bible says they are, nor are they in heaven as the bible vividly depicts them in rev 14.
Now in this thread, we have seen the error of making the "one taken" the equivalent of half the world "taken" someplace and destroyed at Jesus coming on horses.( pssssst...that means half the entire population is saved wink wink)
But no rapture of "righteous" at the second coming.
The righteous stay in a bed and miss the second coming!!!! ( two in a bed, one 'wicked'taken, the other 'righteouus' left) ...SMH
So now they have a "wicked only" gathering at the second coming
Pure postribber doubletalk baloney
But that is fine.
It is comical blowing a hole in that doctrine a ship can sail through.
Humorous seeing the scramble, word games, and torturous twists making Gods word voided in so many dynamics by them.
Cultish actually.
Even "normal everyday life" depicted preflood needs the postribber meat grinder effect to deflect what is vivid and clear.
That does not raise red flags to you?
You can fool yourself into some fantasy that the boat never raised up via the water ,into the sky and into the clouds.
Reframe it into hyper generalization that the water is part of earth, and therefore erroneously adapt some analogy of ,"hey Noah never left EARTH therefore the Truth is the boat " never came back"
Hey I got an idea!
We can also void out Lot by saying, " see, he never left EARTH!"
YES JESUS Must BE USING LOT and NOAH alongside the " one taken/ left" to illustrate NO RIGHTEOUS IS EVER TAKEN!!!!
WOW !!!!
WE CAN CHANGE THE WORD ,IF WE TORTURE IT JUST RIGHT!!!
BETTER YET;
Show me one postribber "scholar" that will honestly debate me.
It AIN'T HAPPENING.
I actually got 2 other threads making fools out of every postribber.
They contend the flood was a small one. ( boat never raised up into the clouds)
And the 144k are not who the bible says they are, nor are they in heaven as the bible vividly depicts them in rev 14.
Now in this thread, we have seen the error of making the "one taken" the equivalent of half the world "taken" someplace and destroyed at Jesus coming on horses.( pssssst...that means half the entire population is saved wink wink)
But no rapture of "righteous" at the second coming.
The righteous stay in a bed and miss the second coming!!!! ( two in a bed, one 'wicked'taken, the other 'righteouus' left) ...SMH
So now they have a "wicked only" gathering at the second coming
Pure postribber doubletalk baloney
But that is fine.
It is comical blowing a hole in that doctrine a ship can sail through.
Humorous seeing the scramble, word games, and torturous twists making Gods word voided in so many dynamics by them.
Cultish actually.
Even "normal everyday life" depicted preflood needs the postribber meat grinder effect to deflect what is vivid and clear.
GET A BIBLE AND MAKE IT SAY HIS BOAT NEVER FLOATED ABOVE THE MOUNTANS.
THEN WHERE IT SAYS "CAME TO REST ON MOUNTAINS"...
WELL JUST CUT THAT PART OUT AND SAY ," But, but we cant have Noah return and land on a mountain, my postribber doctrine has the righteous removed from earth after the flood."
( just assume Jesus is illustrating with noah and Lot that they both left after the judgement)
Make it fit.
Oh wait....you actually are doing that already.
Nevermind
THEN WHERE IT SAYS "CAME TO REST ON MOUNTAINS"...
WELL JUST CUT THAT PART OUT AND SAY ," But, but we cant have Noah return and land on a mountain, my postribber doctrine has the righteous removed from earth after the flood."
( just assume Jesus is illustrating with noah and Lot that they both left after the judgement)
Make it fit.
Oh wait....you actually are doing that already.
Nevermind
Hey...you can make it say " after the flood, the boat returned to earth and landed on mountains, it was renamed "post flood deliverance express" and it floated up high into the clouds but came immediately back to earth with God.(you know how your doctrine depicts it)
Remember you need the rising into the clouds ,and coming right back to happen right after the flood
Just get creative.
Maybe it had some rocket power or something since you need it going into the clouds post flood.
Remember, you are halfway there, since it did return postflood.
If we can just figure out how to change Noahs story.
Remember you need the rising into the clouds ,and coming right back to happen right after the flood
Just get creative.
Maybe it had some rocket power or something since you need it going into the clouds post flood.
Remember, you are halfway there, since it did return postflood.
If we can just figure out how to change Noahs story.
BY THAT LOGIC CHRIST WOULD HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED AT LEAST 4 DIFFERENT TIMES.
JUST LIKE WE KNOW THAT ONLY TOOK PLACE ONCE, WE USED TO KNOW HE RETURNED for A SECOND TIME, AND USED ALL THOSE DESCRIPTIONS FOUND IN THE VARIOUS LOCATIONS FOR A MORE DETAILED VIEW OF THE EVENT.
and then along came pre trib and caused nothing but questions and chaos 'BY ADDING A DAY', BECAUSE THEY ALL HAVE JESUS RETURNING, BUT WITH DIFFERENT DETAILS.
Matthew 27:44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.
45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.
48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
35 And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calleth Elias.
36 And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.
37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
Luke 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
32 And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
36 And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
37 And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
47 Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.
48 And all the people that came together to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts, and returned.
49 And all his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Galilee, stood afar off, beholding these things.
50 And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just:
51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.
52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
John 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
22 Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.
23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.
25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
JUST LIKE WE KNOW THAT ONLY TOOK PLACE ONCE, WE USED TO KNOW HE RETURNED for A SECOND TIME, AND USED ALL THOSE DESCRIPTIONS FOUND IN THE VARIOUS LOCATIONS FOR A MORE DETAILED VIEW OF THE EVENT.
and then along came pre trib and caused nothing but questions and chaos 'BY ADDING A DAY', BECAUSE THEY ALL HAVE JESUS RETURNING, BUT WITH DIFFERENT DETAILS.
Matthew 27:44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.
45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.
48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
35 And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calleth Elias.
36 And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.
37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
Luke 23:28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
32 And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
36 And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
37 And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
47 Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.
48 And all the people that came together to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts, and returned.
49 And all his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Galilee, stood afar off, beholding these things.
50 And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just:
51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them
he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.52 This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
John 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:
18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
22 Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.
23 Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
24 They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.
25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.
26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
Remember, it is your doctrine that needs lot removed and return after judgement, and noah rising into the clouds and returning immediately post judgement
But you also need something to block what the "one taken" depicts.
That is what you need the bible changed into
It would be nice if you would at least really UNDERSTAND what posttribs believe. Then we could at least have a real discussion.
Seems we have to keep CORRECTING your very faulty view of what we believe.
The ridiculous comment, "The church never sees heaven" is patently false. Since the beginning of the church, about 2,000 years ago, the VAST MAJORITY of "the church" is ALREADY IN HEAVEN. Waiting for their resurrection bodies.
Why can't that truth sink into your skull? By the time Jesus comes back (the Second Advent) those believers who are still alive and remain will be the MINORITY of the church. Just a very small fraction, if you are counting heads.
So, please just stop with your ridiculous comments, ok?
No, only an idiot would make such a stupid statement.
Who are "they"? Name them.
The obvious problem with pretrib theology is that they have NO VERSES showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven, which is the foundation for what they think (or fantasize) of when they hear "rapture". But no verses that show it.
So, the pretrib theology is based SOLELY on presupposition, presumption, assumption, etc.
Seems we have to keep CORRECTING your very faulty view of what we believe.
The ridiculous comment, "The church never sees heaven" is patently false. Since the beginning of the church, about 2,000 years ago, the VAST MAJORITY of "the church" is ALREADY IN HEAVEN. Waiting for their resurrection bodies.
Why can't that truth sink into your skull? By the time Jesus comes back (the Second Advent) those believers who are still alive and remain will be the MINORITY of the church. Just a very small fraction, if you are counting heads.
So, please just stop with your ridiculous comments, ok?
No, only an idiot would make such a stupid statement.
Who are "they"? Name them.
The obvious problem with pretrib theology is that they have NO VERSES showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven, which is the foundation for what they think (or fantasize) of when they hear "rapture". But no verses that show it.
So, the pretrib theology is based SOLELY on presupposition, presumption, assumption, etc.
kleronomos said:
I was unaware that Noah left the earth and unaware he was returned to it.
Doesn't matter, abs. The flood was ON the earth. The ark was ON the flood waters. The math isn't that difficult.
Huh? Where is this "postrib version of the flood"?? Everyone can read Genesis and the a whole story from there.
There's no need to re-write the flood narrative. But it is the pretrib twisting of Noah's flood that is a "version".
No. Porstribs don't CARE how high the ark went. It still floated ON the water, which was ON the earth.
No. The ark never left the earth. To make that claim just shows how disengaged from reality you are.
Now, if the ark had floated up ON AIR, then you would have a point. But you don't have a point because they ark stayed ON the water, which was ON the earth.
Nothing burger here.
I was unaware that Noah left the earth and unaware he was returned to it.
Doesn't matter, abs. The flood was ON the earth. The ark was ON the flood waters. The math isn't that difficult.
Huh? Where is this "postrib version of the flood"?? Everyone can read Genesis and the a whole story from there.
There's no need to re-write the flood narrative. But it is the pretrib twisting of Noah's flood that is a "version".
No. Porstribs don't CARE how high the ark went. It still floated ON the water, which was ON the earth.
No. The ark never left the earth. To make that claim just shows how disengaged from reality you are.
Now, if the ark had floated up ON AIR, then you would have a point. But you don't have a point because they ark stayed ON the water, which was ON the earth.
Nothing burger here.
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Why do you continue to ignore the FACT that the Bible speaks of resurrection of the saved in the singular? Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15 all use the singular.
And 1 Cor 15:23 says that "those who belong to Him", obviously meaning ALL believers from ALL time, will be resurrected "when He comes".
Hm. If there were 3 "comings", then Paul must have been confused about which one the resurrection occurs.
Or, really, he knew precisely WHEN the resurrection of all believers will occur: "when He comes". In Paul's day, the First Advent had already occurred. But not the Second. So the phrase "when He comes" cannot be anything other than the Second (and final) Advent.
Show us any scholar who counts 3 advents of Christ.
iow, prove your claims.
And 1 Cor 15:23 says that "those who belong to Him", obviously meaning ALL believers from ALL time, will be resurrected "when He comes".
Hm. If there were 3 "comings", then Paul must have been confused about which one the resurrection occurs.
Or, really, he knew precisely WHEN the resurrection of all believers will occur: "when He comes". In Paul's day, the First Advent had already occurred. But not the Second. So the phrase "when He comes" cannot be anything other than the Second (and final) Advent.
Show us any scholar who counts 3 advents of Christ.
iow, prove your claims.
I said:
"Noah DIDN'T "return to earth" since he NEVER left it. That's the whole point."
Do you even know what "word games" means? What I posted is straightforward and any 6th grader would clearly understand what I wrote.
I don't play word games. My views are all backed up with Scripture. But, speaking of red flags, you've got them all over you.
Why do you continue to misrepresent my posts? My point has always been that the ark was ON the water, which was ON the earth.
And you have the gall to ascribe to me the nonsense that the "boat never raised up via the water". Of course the ark did.
So please STOP LYING.
Huh? You got a fever or something? Of course EVERY body of water is "part of the earth".
Well, if you think that Lot DID leave the earth, you've got some real mental issues going on.
I've been doing that since the beginning of this thread. But all you do is deny truth. Every time.
That is correct. You won't debate because you KNOW that you have NO EVIDENCE to support your claims.
Delusional. Your posts demonstrate who is making a fool out of whom.
"Noah DIDN'T "return to earth" since he NEVER left it. That's the whole point."
Do you even know what "word games" means? What I posted is straightforward and any 6th grader would clearly understand what I wrote.
I don't play word games. My views are all backed up with Scripture. But, speaking of red flags, you've got them all over you.
Why do you continue to misrepresent my posts? My point has always been that the ark was ON the water, which was ON the earth.
And you have the gall to ascribe to me the nonsense that the "boat never raised up via the water". Of course the ark did.
So please STOP LYING.
Huh? You got a fever or something? Of course EVERY body of water is "part of the earth".
Well, if you think that Lot DID leave the earth, you've got some real mental issues going on.
I've been doing that since the beginning of this thread. But all you do is deny truth. Every time.
That is correct. You won't debate because you KNOW that you have NO EVIDENCE to support your claims.
Delusional. Your posts demonstrate who is making a fool out of whom.
No, you are making a fool of yourself. None of your arguments take the place of the ONLY evidence for your supposed "rapture", which is a verse showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
And you won't even admit there are no such verses.
Your whole theology is built upon innuendo, presumption, and assumption.
You've got NO evidence at all.
And to make it worse, you've only ignored the clear evidence for a single resurrection, where ALL believers from all time will be glorified, which is "when He comes", which is the Second Advent.
Go ahead and continue to deny Scripture.
We pit our Scripture against your innuendo any time.
And you won't even admit there are no such verses.
Your whole theology is built upon innuendo, presumption, and assumption.
You've got NO evidence at all.
And to make it worse, you've only ignored the clear evidence for a single resurrection, where ALL believers from all time will be glorified, which is "when He comes", which is the Second Advent.
Go ahead and continue to deny Scripture.
We pit our Scripture against your innuendo any time.
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