One what "DATE" did YOUR Messiah die?

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E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#61
Let scripture explain scripture. They fasted for three days and three night, but Esther went into the king on the third day. She did not fast for 72 hours.

Est 4:15 Then Esther bade them return Mordecai this answer, go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish. So Mordecai went his way, and did according to all that Esther had commanded him.

Est 5:1 Now it came to pass on the third day, that Esther put on her royal apparel, and stood in the inner court of the king's house, over against the king's house: and the king sat upon his royal throne in the royal house, over against the gate of the house.
We are not talking about Esther...who cares what Esther said or did! What JESUS said is the topic of discussion And Jesus said the following;

Matt.12
[40] For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jesus did NOT refer to Esther when He was speaking. He told us that the same thing that happened to Jonah is what would happen to Him.

I'm sure Jesus was WELL aware of what happened to Esther...but He did not use her events to let us know what would soon happen to Him; He used the events of Jonah.

Notice with Jonah there is no question as to what amount of time was spent in the fish; it was 3 days AND 3 nights!

Maybe that's why Christ did NOT use the example that happened with Esther!


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PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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#62
We are not talking about Esther...who cares what Esther said or did! What JESUS said is the topic of discussion And Jesus said the following;

Matt.12
[40] For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jesus did NOT refer to Esther when He was speaking. He told us that the same thing that happened to Jonah is what would happen to Him.

I'm sure Jesus was WELL aware of what happened to Esther...but He did not use her events to let us know what would soon happen to Him; He used the events of Jonah.

Notice with Jonah there is no question as to what amount of time was spent in the fish; it was 3 days AND 3 nights!

Maybe that's why Christ did NOT use the example that happened with Esther!


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We aren't talking about Jonah either.

Jesus died (going from memory) about 3PM in the afternoon on Friday and rose again early Sunday morning which would be about halfway through Sunday. Thats three days, I'm satisfied with that, I can't help it if you aren't. Goodbye.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#63
We aren't talking about Jonah either.

Jesus died (going from memory) about 3PM in the afternoon on Friday and rose again early Sunday morning which would be about halfway through Sunday. Thats three days, I'm satisfied with that, I can't help it if you aren't. Goodbye.

But Jesus IS talking about Jonah. And He told us to refer to the story of Jonah to know what would soon happen to Him.

And Jesus, not me, chose to use the example of Jonah and NOT Esther for what was to come.

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P

Pilgrimer

Guest
#64

I'm sure Jesus was WELL aware of what happened to Esther...but He did not use her events to let us know what would soon happen to Him; He used the events of Jonah.
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Actually, that's not true. Jesus said the sign of Jonah would be a sign "to that generation." What we have is the teaching he gave to his disciples about these three days and nights, and the very simple and clear testimony from the Gospels about how long Jesus was in the tomb, and it was from just before the beginning of Sabbath until before daybreak Sunday morning.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
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#65
But Jesus IS talking about Jonah. And He told us to refer to the story of Jonah to know what would soon happen to Him.

And Jesus, not me, chose to use the example of Jonah and NOT Esther for what was to come.
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Read the whole page, you might learn something.

2. The Rabbinical literature also manifests this idiomatic range:
Rabbi Eleazar ben Azariah, tenth in the descent from Ezra was very specific: "A day and a night are an Onah ['a portion of time'] and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it" [J.Talmud, Shabbath 9.3 and b.Talmud, Pesahim 4a]

This understanding was used in the numerous correlations between Jonah 1.17 ('in the belly of the fish for three days and three nights') and the OT passages cited above [e.g. Mid.Rabbath on Genesis 56 (on 22.4); Genesis 91.7 (on 42.17-18)].

Good question
 
P

Pilgrimer

Guest
#66
We aren't talking about Jonah either.

Jesus died (going from memory) about 3PM in the afternoon on Friday and rose again early Sunday morning which would be about halfway through Sunday. Thats three days, I'm satisfied with that, I can't help it if you aren't. Goodbye.
Actually, Jesus rose sometime before dawn because the Gospels say the women came to the tomb while it was still dark on Sunday morning and Jesus was already risen.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
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#67
Actually, Jesus rose sometime before dawn because the Gospels say the women came to the tomb while it was still dark on Sunday morning and Jesus was already risen.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
In Houstan it will get dark at 7:40 pm on 31 March 2013. Halfway though the day will be 7:40 AM. So if the women got there about 7AM lets say, It's pretty close to halfway though the day which is what I said.

DOES IT MATTER!!
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#68
Don't make the same mistake. Look at EVERY verse about this subject, go tear apart all those other verses about this very subject, the events that would lead up to Jesus' resurrection, and then draw your conclusions.
Let's review your claim;


It wasn't a misprint, just a technicality. The Passover lambs were sacrificed on the afternoon of the 14th, but the feast of the Passover (the Seder) wasn't eaten until that evening, which was the beginning of the 15th, the first day when unleavened bread was eaten and the beginning of the 7-day feast.



Now let's read if what you claim lines up with scripture;


Exod.12
[6] And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
[7] And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
[8] And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

So on the fourteenth day of the first month a Passover meal was to be eaten. The meal could NOT be eaten before evening because the Passover lamb was not to be killed until evening, NOT IN THE AFTERNOON, meaning that the Passover meal was eaten at the BEGINNING of the fourteenth day; AFTER sundown, AFTER the killing of the lamb. So from sun down of the 14th day of the month until the following sundown was the Passover. Let's read more;

[10] And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
[11] And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD's passover.

So this is STILL the 14th day of the month. The PASSOVER meal was started at sundown and was to be completed before the morning....but still on the 14th day of the month.

And they were also to eat unleavened bread ON THE PASSOVER; the 14th day of the month! Let's read how they were to keep it and for how long;

[14] And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

So the Lord's Passover is to be kept as a FEAST or a meal on the 14th day of the month and it is to be kept forever.

Here is a question.... Was the above a separate feast from the first day of Unleavened Bread? Let's read what thus saith the Lord;

[15] Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.

Again...is the above speaking about and including the Passover meal or is it speaking about the first day out of seven that unleavened bread is to be eaten? Let's read.....let's do as you say, "...
Look at EVERY verse...";


Lev.23
[5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.

So we know from Ex.12 the Lord's Passover is to be observed and it is to be kept as a feast, a meal is to be had in the way that God directed. Eating unleavened bread is also a requirement for keeping the Lord's Passover AND it is to be kept on the 14th day of the first month. Let's now read what is to happen on the next day...the fifteenth day of the month
[6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

So the day AFTER the Passover there is to be ANOTHER feast, the feast of Unleavened bread. And unleavened bread is to be eaten for 7 days. So along with the Passover meal (unleavened bread included), which is kept on the 14th day of the month, unleavened bread is to be eaten for a total of 8 days. Now let's confirm this;

Num. 28
[17] And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.

Num.29
[12] And on the fifteenth day of the seventh month ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work, and ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days:

Num.33
[3] And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the passover the children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians.

So we see that the 15th day of the first month there was also a feast that was to be kept. And along with the day of the Passover, unleavened bread was to be eaten for a total of (8) days. Again...let's confirm....

Ex.21
[18] In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.


Now let's add;

(14th day at even) + (15th day at even) thru (21st day at even) = (8) days!

So from the 14th day of the month (Passover) until the last day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, unleavened bread was to be eaten; 14th (1), + 15th (1), 16th (2), 17th (3), 18th (4), 19th (5), 20th (6), 21st (7) = (8) days.



Again...you claimed;

"...but the feast of the Passover (the Seder) wasn't eaten until that evening, which was the beginning of the 15th, the first day when unleavened bread was eaten and the beginning of the 7-day feast."


When according to God's word His Passover begins in the evening of the 14th, at which time unleavened bread is eaten, followed by (7) days of ADDITIONAL eating of unleavened bread, which is the Feast of Unleavened Bread for a total of (8) days



Now that we know that the entire Feast, The Passover AND the 7 days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, were for (8) days.......how does that work out with the death and resurrection of Christ?


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P

Pilgrimer

Guest
#69
In Houstan it will get dark at 7:40 pm on 31 March 2013. Halfway though the day will be 7:40 AM. So if the women got there about 7AM lets say, It's pretty close to halfway though the day which is what I said.

DOES IT MATTER!!
Probably not to most people, but I'm a detail person, or probably more properly called a nit-picker!:D

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#70
And after you finish the above posting, here's something else for you to consider.....

Let's look at how God describes the first day of the Feast of Unleavened bread;

Exod.12
[15] Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
[16] And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

Num.28
[17] And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.
[18] In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein:


So the day AFTER the 14th day of the month, or Passover, no work is to be done. The only work that is permitted is that of cooking. God tells us the day after the Passover, the 15th day of the month and the 21st day of the month, or the 7th day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, there is to be an holy convocation.

By chance does that description ring any bells? Let's read;

Exod.20
[8] Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
[9] Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
[10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
[11] For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Lev.23
[3] Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Neh.13
[15] In those days saw I in Judah some treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day: and I testified against them in the day wherein they sold victuals.
[16] There dwelt men of Tyre also therein, which brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on the sabbath unto the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem.
[17] Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day?
[18] Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath.
[19] And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.
[20] So the merchants and sellers of all kind of ware lodged without Jerusalem once or twice.


So the same laws that God gave for His Sabbath day He also gave to the 1st and the last days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Now let's go to the NT and read how the feast is descibed;

John 19.
[
31] The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

So we know for a fact that Jesus died during the Feast of the Passover AND the Feast of Unleavened Bread. We also know that whatever day it was it was before a SABBATH day. And we also know that whatever SABBATH it was it was referred to as an "...HIGH DAY..."!


Let's use just a little logic and common sense for just a moment;


God tells us not to work on His 7th day Sabbath!
God tells us to have an holy convocation on His 7th day Sabbath!
God tells us not to work, other than to cook on the 1st and the 7th day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread!
God tells us to have a holy convocation of the 1st and the 7th day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread!
God's word calls a Sabbath day during the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread a "high day"

Could it be that the 1st and the 7th day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread were considered SABBATH DAYS?

Could that be the SABBATH that is meant by the day before the Sabbath?





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PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
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#71
Probably not to most people, but I'm a detail person, or probably more properly called a nit-picker!:D

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
Good luck keeping the Sabbath with a western calendar.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#72
Don't make the same mistake. Look at EVERY verse about this subject, go tear apart all those other verses about this very subject, the events that would lead up to Jesus' resurrection, and then draw your conclusions.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
Hello......anybody there?

you claimed........


"The passover lambs were sacrificed on the 14th in the afternoon; but the feast of the Passover (the Seder) wasn't eaten until that evening, which was the beginning of the 15th, the first day when unleavened bread was eaten and the beginning of the 7-day feast."


When according to God's word His Passover begins in the evening of the 14th with the killing of the lambs followed by a meal. During this feast unleavened bread is eaten, followed by (7) days of ADDITIONAL eating of unleavened bread, which is the Feast of Unleavened Bread for a total of (8) days;


Exod.12
[6] And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
[7] And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
[8] And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

So on the fourteenth day of the first month a Passover meal was to be eaten. The meal could NOT be eaten before evening because the Passover lamb was not to be killed until evening, NOT IN THE AFTERNOON, meaning that the Passover meal was eaten at the BEGINNING of the fourteenth day; AFTER sundown, AFTER the killing of the lamb. So from sun down of the 14th day of the month until the following sundown was the Passover.


Ex.21
[18] In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.


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P

Pilgrimer

Guest
#73
There are just a few problems with the way you are reading the Law. But let's take a look at how Jesus and the disciples actually observed it, okay? Because after all, what I'm primarily concerned with is the events that occurred during Passion Week, so what I'm looking to understand is how the Scripture and historical records tell us the Jews actually observed these things during Jesus' time. We'll save whether it's right or wrong for another time.

"Now the first [day] of the [feast of] unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover? And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples. And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover. Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve."Matthew 26:17-19

So the first thing to notice is that Jesus sent the disciples into the city to make ready the passover on the first day of unleavened bread. Matthew is using Roman reckoning here for the days, not Jewish, so Thursday afternoon the lambs were slain and that evening (the same day by Roman reckoning) was the Seder.

So the disciples had to go into the city, purchase the lamb, slay it, wait for the priests to dress it, take the portion that belonged to their party, either take it back to the home where they were to eat the Passover or else take it to one of the many commercial ovens that were set up around the city to roast the thousands of passover lambs of the many pilgrims who had come to the city.

Now notice what the Scripture says, "now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve." So they sat down to eat the passover when the evening was come. They didn't make the passover ready (slay and prepare the lamb) when the evening was come, it was already prepared and they sat down to eat it.

This is the same testimony of Mark:

"And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover? And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him. And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he will shew you a large upper room furnished [and] prepared: there make ready for us. And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. And in the evening he cometh with the twelve." Mark 14:12-17

So notice in Mark it says specifically that they killed the passover on the first day of unleavened bread, again, reckoning the days by Roman standard as Matthew did. So Thursday afternoon they killed the passover (which was the 14th Nisan) and the evening of that same day by Roman reckoning they ate it (which was actually Nisan 15 by Jewish reckoning).

But for a third witness notice what Luke says:

"Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover."Luke 22:

And another verse:

"Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat. And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare? And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him." Luke 22:7-14.

Do you see that in four different verses in the New Testament it states that the Jews slew the passover on the first day of unleavened bread? Now that doesn't mean they slew the lambs on Nisan 15, it means they slew the passover in the afternoon and ate it that evening of the same day, although not the same Jewish calendar day.

So two problems with your reading of the law is that first of all you have the lambs being slain in the Temple in the dark, and second, you have 8 days of the Jews eating unleavened bread. But even the Old Testament states:

And this is the way the passover was observed in Old Testament times as well:

“In the first [month], in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.” Ezekiel 45:21

So your second problem is that by trying to separate passover from unleavened bread you have an 8 day feast, which is clearly not correct.

Another problem you have is that you are assuming that unleavened bread was not eaten during passover, and again, that's not correct. You quoted the scripture but I don't think you saw it:

"And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; [and] with bitter [herbs] they shall eat it. Exodus 12:8

So again, the Passover was the first of the 7 nights of eating unleavened bread, not a separate feast.

And one more problem you have is that the Scripture says the Jews departed Rameses on the 15th day of the month. Now remember, they had eaten the Passover in the evening with all their belongings packed up, their loins girded, their shoes on their feet, and their staff in their hand, ready to depart. At midnight the death angel passed through the land slaying all the firstborn male children. That night the Egyptians called for Moses and urged the Jews to hurry up and leave. They left that night (Exodus 12:29-31), which was the 15th of Nisan:

"And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the passover the children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians." Numbers 33:3


The way you are reading the Law you have them packed up, their shoes on their feet, eating the passover, the death angel passing through the land, and then the Jews sitting around the rest of the night, the next day, and then the next night leaving. That's not how it happened.


And the final problem is that the scripture says repeatedly that the Jews were to eat unleavened bread 7 days. Nowhere does it say they were to eat unleavened bread 8 days.

“In the first [month], in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.” Ezekiel 45:21

And finally, the historical evidence as to precisely how the Jews were observing the Passover at the time of Jesus I can offer you two sources, the Talmudic tractate "Pesach," but also Josephus in his "Wars of the Jews," both of which state that the passover lambs were slain on the afternoon of the 14th. In fact, the regular evening sacrifice that was normally slain at 2:30 and offered at 3:00 was moved up and slain at 12:30 and offered at 1:00. Then they began the passover sacrifices which Josephus records usually lasted until 5:30, there were literally thousands and thousands of lambs to be slain, dressed, and roasted before the Seder that evening.

So I think you have a number of difficulties with the way you are reading the verses you quoted that do not take into account the verses I have pointed out. I've looked at the verses you quoted, thoroughly, but also the one I have mentioned, and others that also pertain to this issue, there's more.

And it is passing strange to me that you are trying to lay out when Jesus was crucified and yet you did not offer one single verse from the Gospels.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#74
Let's take a look at how Jesus and the disciples actually observed it, okay?
In Christ,
Pilgrimer

Readers...the one thing that most are not aware of is the fact that, although all over Jerusalem lambs were being killed for the feast, the Passover that Jesus had with His disciples was different than all of the rest. Jesus was setting the example for what the Passover was to be AFTER His death. For after the death of Christ lambs no longer needed to be killed for Passover because Christ BECAME our Passover lamb. And in order for that to happen Jesus had to establish the new way the Passover was to be observed.

Let's read what God tells us about the changing of a law, or a will, and when it can take affect;

Heb.9
[16] For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

If there was going to be a change in how anything was going to be done, that change had to occur while Jesus was yet alive. For as we just read above, a will goes into effect AFTER men are dead. Jesus could not make any changes to how anything was observed AFTER He died. Now let's read just how Jesus observed this very unique Passover with His disciples;

Matt.26
[26] And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
[27] And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
[28] For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mark 14
[22] And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
[23] And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.
[24] And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

Luke 22
[19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
[20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

So we find above that on this Passover Jesus took bread and wine, blessed it and gave it to His disciples. This had never been done before. This was the change that Jesus had to make to the observance of the Passover. Since He was to become our Passover lamb, the killing of animals for the Passover was no longer needed. Now let's read if He made any other changes to the way the Lord's Passover was to be kept;


Matt.26
[20] Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
[21] And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

Mark 14
[16] And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
[17] And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.


Now let's go back to the original Passover to see if anything changed;

Lev.23
[5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.

Josh.5
[10] And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month at even in the plains of Jericho.


So we can see that the time that the Passover was to be eaten had not changed. The Passover meal was to be eaten AT EVEN; AFTER the going down of the sun. That's when it was done in the OT and as we read above it was kept the same way during Jesus time. We also can see that the Passover was observed on the (14th) day of the first month.

Thus far the only thing that Jesus instituted with this Passover that He was having with His disciples was the breaking of bread and drinking of wine. The day He had not changed. The time to eat the Passover meal He had not changed. Let's continue...let's read AGAIN what was to happen on the Passover day, the (14th) day of the 1st month;

Exod.12
[6] And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
[7] And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
[8] And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

And just as I stated in post #68; unleavened bread was to be eaten on the 14th day of the 1st month AT EVEN.

Now you claim that;


"...you have 8 days of the Jews eating unleavened bread. But even the Old Testament states:

“In the first [month], in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.” Ezekiel 45:21

"So your second problem is that by trying to separate Passover from unleavened bread you have an 8 day feast, which is clearly not correct."


"So again, the Passover was the first of the 7 nights of eating unleavened bread, not a separate feast."


Well....let's go back to God's word to find the truth.


Ex.21
[18] In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.


So on the 14th day of the month, at even, unleavened bread was to be eaten through and including the 21st day of the month; "...until the one and twentieth day of the month at even."


So......let's do a little math;

(14th day at even) = 1 day + (15th day at even) = 2 days + (16th day at even) = 3 days + (17th day at even) = 4 days + (18th day at even) = 5 days + (19th day at even) = 6 days + (20th day at even) = 7 days!

??? (21st day at even)???

If the 14th day of the 1st month is included in the 7 day feast we come up 1 day short. For the scriptures tells us that unleavened bread is to be eaten; "on the fourteenth day of the month at even...until the one and twentieth day of the month at even."

Now...as we all know, quotation marks are not part of the original scriptures. But we also know from reading the scriptures that Unleavened bread was to be eaten from the 14th day of the month through and including the 21st day of the month. Now how can we get that out of this scripture;

“In the first [month], in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.” Ezekiel 45:21

For if the Passover AND the feast of seven days are inclusive we will continue to come up a day short. But that's if we go with the quotations provided.

Without quotations we have;

“In the first [month] in the fourteenth day of the month ye shall have the passover a feast of seven days unleavened bread shall be eaten.” Ezekiel 45:21

Now at what time could the feast have been changed by God and shorten a day?

And I can read no where in the "Gospels" where Jesus 'shortened' the time of the feast!


But here is one thing we can deduce from reading the Gospels....The entire feasts, both of them; The Passover AND the Days of Unleavened bread became known as one feast. Let's confirm;

Mark 14
[1] After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread:

Luke 22
[1] Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.


Now just because the Jews of the day combined the two and called both Feasts days the Passover does NOT mean they observed them as one.

Let's first go back to the original to find what God instructed;

Exod.12
[6] And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
[8] And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
[9] Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
[10] And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
[11] And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD's passover.
[14] And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.


So the 14th day of the month was to be a '"FEAST". Let's continue...

Lev.23
[6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
[7] In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

And on the 15th day of the same month there is to ALSO be a "FEAST".


Two days with a "FEAST" on BOTH days!


Let's look at a few more verses......


Matt.26
[17] Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
[18] And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
[19] And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.

Now we already know that by the time of Jesus BOTH feast days was combined and called the Passover or the Days of Unleavened Bread. As we just read above the terms (Passover/Feast of Unleavened Bread) are pretty much interchangeable. But again...just because the terms were swapped does NOT mean the two feasts days were observed as one.

Consider this;

Jesus was killed on the 14th day of the first month. He and His disciples prepared and ate the Passover on the 14th day of the month, at evening, as was ALL of Jerusalem. After the meal, Jesus was arrested, charged and beaten through the night. In the morning....still on the 14th day of the first month, Jesus was hang on a cross and died. He was laid to rest just before the sun set. Now let's read of a conversation that happened AFTER the Passover meal that was prepared and eaten the earlier evening, AFTER the charge, arrest and beating of Jesus;

John 19
[12] And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
[
13] When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
[
14] And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!


So.....we have the people preparing for ANOTHER PASSOVER meal?


If the Feast of the Passover AND the Feast of Unleavened Bread were in fact combined.....didn't that Feast happen on the previous evening....at the time when Jesus and His disciples ate their Passover meal?

What Passover preparation are the people preparing for AFTER the one they just had the evening earlier?

This one;

Lev.23
[6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
[7] In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.




Readers.....you have to do as God instructs and use EVERY WORD THAT GOD HAS SPOKEN TO US!

The Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread are (2) separate Feasts Days. Unleavened bread is to be eaten on BOTH feast days and the length of time is to be just as God instructed;

Ex.21
[18] In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

Unleavened bread is to be eaten for (8) days; On the Passover day (14th day of the 1st month) and for an additional (7) days, Feast of Unleavened bread!


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E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#75
Readers.....let's now find more verses proving that the Lords Passover and His Feast of Unleavened Bread are (2) separate feast days;

Num 28
[16] And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD.
[17] And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.

Above God's word tells us that He has a Passover AND He has a Feast of Unleavened Bread. The Passover begins on the 14th day of the month at evening and the Feast of Unleavened Bread begins on the 15th day of the month at evening.

Let's confirm that BOTH days are separate and that a Feast/Meal is to be eaten on BOTH days;

Exod.12
[6] And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
[8] And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
[9] Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
[10] And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
[11] And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD's passover.
[14] And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.


So on the 14th day of the month there was to be a '"FEAST". Let's continue...

Lev.23
[6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
[7] In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

And on the 15th day of the same month there was ALSO to be a "FEAST".


Two separate days with a "FEAST/Meals" on BOTH days! But let's confirm this again;

Num.28
[16] And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD.
[17] And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.


Now let's read what God says is to happen on the 1st of the seven days and on the last of the seven days;

Lev.23
[18] In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein:
[25] And on the seventh day ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work.

Num.28
[18] In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein:
[19] But ye shall offer a sacrifice made by fire for a burnt offering unto the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, and seven lambs of the first year: they shall be unto you without blemish:
[20] And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil: three tenth deals shall ye offer for a bullock, and two tenth deals for a ram;
[25] And on the seventh day ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work.

So the 1st day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread is a SABBATH day AND the 7th day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread is a SABBATH day.

So not only does God have His weekly Sabbath days, which are on the 7th day of the week, but He also have 'other' Sabbaths days that He instituted. And the way that the nation of Israel differentiated the weekly 7th day Sabbaths from God's yearly Sabbaths was by calling them "High days". Let's confirm;

John 19
[31] The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

So the day that was approaching, which happened at evening, was a Sabbath day.
We know this because God's word tells us that the 1st and the 7th days of the feasts are Sabbath days.

We also know the approaching day was a preparation day. And what the people was preparing for was the 1st day through the 7th day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.


Let's stop for a moment and think this through. Let's use the facts that we have from God's word to draw a conclusion;


  • God's Passover begins on the 14th day of the first month at evening.

  • The Passover day was NOT a Sabbath day!

  • Unleavened bread was to be eaten on the Passover day (14th day of the month)!

  • On the 15th day of the first month, at evening, begins the 1st day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

  • Unleavened bread was to be eaten from the 1st day of the feast (15th day of the month) until the last day of the feast (21st day of the month).
  • Including the 14th day of the month, the Passover, unleavened bread was to be eaten for a total of (8) days.

  • The 1st day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread and the last day, the 7th day, of the Feast of Unleavened bread are both Sabbath days.


Now consider this......depending on what day of the week the 14th day fell......there is the possibility that there could be (2) Sabbaths within the same week.


Now let's read this,

"
And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,"


Well....one thing we know for sure. The Sabbath spoken of above was in fact one of God's "high day" Sabbaths, for the scriptures told us the following;


"
The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.


The only thing that must be figured out is whether the weekly Sabbath and God's "high day" Sabbath fell on the same or different days!


Can it be done? Does God's word give us enough information to find such an answer?


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E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#76

And one more problem you have is that the Scripture says the Jews departed Rameses on the 15th day of the month. Now remember, they had eaten the Passover in the evening with all their belongings packed up, their loins girded, their shoes on their feet, and their staff in their hand, ready to depart. At midnight the death angel passed through the land slaying all the firstborn male children. That night the Egyptians called for Moses and urged the Jews to hurry up and leave. They left that night (Exodus 12:29-31), which was the 15th of Nisan:

"And they departed from Rameses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month; on the morrow after the passover the children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians." Numbers 33:3


In Christ,
Pilgrimer

Let's again go to the word of God for the truth.....

Exod.12
[5] Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
[6] And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
[8] And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
[9] Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
[10] And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.

Again we read that the Passover lamb was killed on the 14th day of the first month and it was killed in the evening. It was eaten throughout the night and anything that remained until the morning.....still the 14th day of the month.....was to be burned with fire.

[11] And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD's passover.

The people ate the Passover lamb with haste and with their clothes on ready to leave.

[29] And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharoah that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

So STILL on the 14th day of the month, at midnight, did God kill the firstborn in the land of Egypt.

From the eating of the Passover lamb at evening until midnight was STILL the 14th day of the month. The 15th day of the month did not begin until the following evening. Let's continue;

[33] And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We be all dead men.
[34] And the people took their dough before it was leavened, their kneadingtroughs being bound up in their clothes upon their shoulders.
[35] And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment:
[36] And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent unto them such things as they required. And they spoiled the Egyptians.

So yes....the people did leave that night.....but that night was yet the 14th day of the month.

Now.....let's read HOW MANY left Egypt;

[37] And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, beside children.
[38] And a mixed multitude went up also with them; and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.


So along with the nation of Israel (600,000 men alone) there were also children, mothers AND a mixed multitude of people that also left......ON FOOT!

I would say that it's a pretty good chance that this departure lasted well into the 15th day of the month.

But it started on the day of the Passover, the 14th day of the first month, after the death angel passed through Egypt at midnight.


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E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#77
Before finding out whether or not the annual 'high day' Sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened Bread was on a different or the same day as the 7th day weekly Sabbath in the week that Christ died, let's first find what Jesus became for us and find why He HAD to die on the 14th day of the first of God's months.

1 Cor.5
[7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

So Christ became our Passover Lamb and was sacrificed for us. Now if Christ was to be our Passover Lamb, that means He HAD to meet ALL of the requirements that God said the Passover Lamb was to have. Now to find just what this Passover symbolizes we need to go to the first Passover.



Exod.12
[1] And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,
[2] This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
[3] Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
[5] Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

God’s word tell us that on the first month of HIS year, not what man calls the first of the year, and on the 14th day of the first month of His year, a male lamb of the first year was to be taken from the sheep or the goats. And this lamb was to be without blemish. Let’s continue…


[6] And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
[7] And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
[8] And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

And this male lamb without a blemish was to be killed by the WHOLE assembly of Israel in the EVENING on the 14th day of the first month of the year. And the meal had to be eaten at night, after the sun had gone down. And the blood of the lamb was to be put on the door post.


[12] For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
[13] And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.


Take note who it was that was destroyed and who was not. EVERYONE that was in a house that was covered with the blood of the lamb was passed over. It did not matter if they believed in the God of Israel or not….ANYBODY that was in a house covered with the blood of the lamb was spared. Let's find if there were any other instructions given by God concerning the Passover Lamb;

[46] In one house it shall be eaten;thou shall not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof.

Now we find that not one bone of the Passover Lamb could be broken.




Let’s now go to the NT to find if Jesus did, in fact, meet ALL of the requirements to become our Passover.


Matt.1
[18] Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
[21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
[24] Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
[25] And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.


So we know that Jesus was the first male son born to Mary and Joseph…just as the Passover lamb had to be; “…a male of the first year…”!


2 Cor.5
[19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
[21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


1 Pet.2
[21] For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
[22] Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:


1 John 3
[5] And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.


And we now know that Christ was perfect…with no sin….just as the Passover lamb had to be; “…Your lamb shall be without blemish…”

Matt.26
[17] Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
[18] And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
[19] And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.
[20] Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
[21] And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.


So we find, just as with the first Passover, Jesus also partook and ate the Passover at evening; “…And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.”

John 19
[32] Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
[33] But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

Above we find that not one bone was broke on Jesus.....again as the Passover Lamb; "...
neither shall ye break a bone thereof.".


Thus far we have found that Jesus met ALL of the requirements that the Lord put forth for the Passover. Now let’s read of the last requirement for the Passover, that being that the Passover lamb MUST die on the Passover day, the 14th day of the month at evening, at the hands of the WHOLE assembly of Israel. Let's read to see if Jesus met this requirement.

Matt.26
[18] And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
[19] And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.
[20] Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
[21] And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.


Again we find, just as the first Passover, Jesus also partook and ate the Passover at evening; “…And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.”

Matt.26
[26] And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
[27] And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
[28] For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
[30] And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.
[36] Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.


Above we find that this Passover was different than ALL of the previous Passovers. For at this Passover there was no mention of male lamb of the first year without a blemish being eaten. This Passover, done on the 14th day of the first month of God’s year, at night, consisted of bread and wine. And why was there no need for a male lamb of the first year without blemish? Because Jesus Christ was to be that male lamb of the first year with not blemish. And after they ate and sung hymns they went out to the mount of Olives, to the garden of Gethsemane. Let's continue....

[45] Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
[46] Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.
[47] And while he yet spake, lo, Judas, one of the twelve, came, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and elders of the people.


So while it was yet on the 14th day of the first month, after the Passover meal and while it was dark, Jesus was betrayed. Please understand something here…God’s days ends and begins when the sun goes down. So the 14th day of the first month started at evening when they ate the Passover meal. Which means that the 14th day of the first month would not be over until the evening of the next day. Knowing this let’s read more…

[55] In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.
[57] And they that had laid hold on Jesus led him away to Caiaphas the high priest, where the scribes and the elders were assembled.
[59] Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;
[60] But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
[61] And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
[65] Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
[66] What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.


So all during the night of the Passover, Jesus was accused, questioned and beaten. Let’s move on to the next chapter to find what happened STILL on the day of the Passover, the 14th day of the month…

Matt. 27
[1] When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:
[2] And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor.
[24] When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
[25] Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.


So we find that, still on the Passover day, Jesus was found guilty by ALL the people and that His blood would not only be on their hands, but their children’s as well. Now let’s find when Jesus died.

[35] And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.
[36] And sitting down they watched him there;
[45] Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
[46] And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
[50] Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
[57] When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
[58] He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.
[59] And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
[60] And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.


So Jesus was crucified on the Passover day; the 14th day of God's first month. From about 12 noon until 3pm was it yet dark in the land. And sometime after 3pm but before the sun set Jesus was dead and buried. And again ALL of this happened on the 14th day on the first month of God’s year, just as God said the Passover over MUST happen; "...And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening."

And now let's read WHO Jesus died for.

Isa.53
[3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
[4] Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
[5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
[6] All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
[7] He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
[8] He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.



And so we have Jesus dying for the sins of the world, just as the Passover Lamb died for ALL that were within a household covered with the blood of the sacrificed lamb; “…and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you…”



So as we have just learned Jesus met ALL of the requirements to become our Passover;




  • Jesus was the first male son! “…a male of the first year…”.
  • Jesus was without sin! “…Your lamb shall be without blemish…”.
  • Jesus had the Passover meal at night! “…And they shall eat the flesh in that night…”
  • Jesus bones were not broken! "...neither shall ye break a bone thereof.
  • Jesus was killed by the whole congregation of Israel on the Passover at evening! “… the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.”
  • Jesus shed blood was for everyone! “…and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you…”


The date that the true Messiah died on was the 14th day of the first of God’s months. Jesus HAD to die on the 14th day of the month if He was to be our Passover Lamb. Jesus satisfied ALL of God's requirements for the Passover, including the date and time of His death.


The date on which Jesus died does NOT change from year to year.

It was and will always be observed on the 14th day of the first of God's months.



"And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever."




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Pilgrimer

Guest
#78
Good luck keeping the Sabbath with a western calendar.
I don't need a calendar to keep the Sabbath, Jesus is my Sabbath.

"Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you will find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#79
I don't need a calendar to keep the Sabbath, Jesus is my Sabbath.

"Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you will find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

In Christ,
Pilgrimer
You've been thinking about that a long time. ;)
 
P

Pilgrimer

Guest
#80


So we find above that on this Passover Jesus took bread and wine, blessed it and gave it to His disciples. This had never been done before. This was the change that Jesus had to make to the observance of the Passover. Since He was to become our Passover lamb, the killing of animals for the Passover was no longer needed. Now let's read if He made any other changes to the way the Lord's Passover was to be kept;
Actually, that's not true. Unleavened bread and wine made up part of every Passover Seder.
Jesus didn't change anything during that last supper, he and his disciples ate a traditional Passover Seder along with all the rest of Israel, as he was required to do by Law. It wasn't until after Jesus' death and resurrection that everything changed, and in fact it was his death and resurrection that changed everything.

But saving that argument for another day, the point here is not how you think the Law was supposed to be observed. The point is how did the Jews understand these things and how did they observe the feasts? Because that determines the chronology of the Passion Week, not your opinion and not mine.

We are not left to wonder, the Gospels make it clear, and I cited two very reliable sources on how the Jews were actually observing the Passover at the time of Jesus. And that's what we have to base our understanding on, not what we might think was the proper observance. Besides the fact that I think you are wrong on exactly what the Passover ordinances meant.

You also err in your reading of the "preparation." The day before Passover is never called the preparation, it is always called the eve of Passover. There is only one day the Jews referred to as the "preparation" and that was Fridays, the day of preparation for the 7th-day Sabbath.

Now Passover (and Tabernacles), being 7 days long, there would always be a 7th-day Sabbath that would occur during Passover and Tabernacles and that 7th-day Sabbath was a "High Day," because being a 7th-day Sabbath it was already a holy day plus occurring on a feast day made it doubly holy.

The festival sabbaths were minor sabbaths. The reason was that certain work was allowed on festival sabbaths, the work necessary to prepare the feasts to be eaten each of the 7 days.

Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel. And in the first day [there shall be] an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save [that] which every man must eat, that only may be done of you. Exodus 12:15-16

But on a 7th-day Sabbath no work of any kind could be done, not even that necessary to prepare for a feast. So any time a 7th-day Sabbath fell on a feast day, the day before was a "preparation" because the people would have to prepare enough food for 2 feast days.


Thus the day Jesus was crucified was a Friday, the "preparation" day before that weekly Sabbath that fell on Passover on which the Jews had to prepare enough food for two feast days.

So you see, the festival sabbaths were considered minor sabbaths, while the 7th-day Sabbath that occurred during a festival week was especially holy and called a "High Day." And note too that the Scripture says this was the preparation "of" the Passover, not the preparation "for" the Passover.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer