ONLY CHRIST'S ATONEMENT SATISFIES GOD
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Well 7seas., it would seem obvious that my words are all over the place on these threads I start and finish. And it also is obvious to me that you disagree with me. It has nothing to do with the devotionals as it has to do with my sharing and how you don't agree with me.
And that is OK with me. How nutty would it be if we all agreed 100% on this side of heaven?? We will not all agree with each other here on earth. I don't expect it. I DO expect however to be able to share freely the things that the Lord puts on my heart and that be ok here on CC as long as I'm not anti Christ. Which I'm not. Anymore than you are.
And that is OK with me. How nutty would it be if we all agreed 100% on this side of heaven?? We will not all agree with each other here on earth. I don't expect it. I DO expect however to be able to share freely the things that the Lord puts on my heart and that be ok here on CC as long as I'm not anti Christ. Which I'm not. Anymore than you are.
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you could not possibly be more wrong
if I were somehow addressing you on the personal level you for some reason believe me to be doing, I would follow you and comment on your posts on other threads
I have no interest in doing so. if you would be objective you would see that
however, you respond, again, personally, rather then acknowledging that the problem is the teaching of Prince
obviously I am not the only one who notices this as desertrose has pointed it out as have others
I never bother with whatever you post on other threads...I just don't even read your posts...they are YOUR business
but Princes teaching...his often heretical and usually dangerous teaching...IS the business of EVERY person in this forum
it is emotionally upsetting for you apparently, but as you continue to post from Prince, people, sometimes myself included, will refute his unsound doctrine
I don't have a problem with the Bible teaching of JP so why would I address this problem you see that I don't see or have a problem with? I don't have a problem with a whole bunch of different Christians even if they don't agree with me.
You make no sense here except that you want to call to arms anyone who dislikes a pastor from Singapore named Joseph Prince.
Well then have at it 7seas go for it. Will you call to arms all Christians who you believe should be against OTHER Christians who don't agree with you. All the other thousands of Christians teachers writers evangelists, Pastors, Preachers who have written or spoken or shared Jesus Christ. there are many maybe millions.
You can go for it but I won't join you. I believe the Bible when it says not to cause division. When it says to keep the fellowship. We can't MAKE others fellowship but we can have our hand in keeping it. Mine will be in keeping it.
You make no sense here except that you want to call to arms anyone who dislikes a pastor from Singapore named Joseph Prince.
Well then have at it 7seas go for it. Will you call to arms all Christians who you believe should be against OTHER Christians who don't agree with you. All the other thousands of Christians teachers writers evangelists, Pastors, Preachers who have written or spoken or shared Jesus Christ. there are many maybe millions.
You can go for it but I won't join you. I believe the Bible when it says not to cause division. When it says to keep the fellowship. We can't MAKE others fellowship but we can have our hand in keeping it. Mine will be in keeping it.
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Hi Joaniemarie, I'm posting within the text again. 
Hello DesertRose., And I appreciate your suggestions to a degree. Except that since you don't read my posts., how can you know what I believe? Or what I believe people like Prince are saying? I'm sorry if it's difficult for me to separate your crusade to undermine evil while you at the same time count me as one who presents evil doctrine here on CC. To correct you., I've taken many many hours to explain each and every disagreement in this perceived WOF doctrine you think I hold to 100% and what about WOF you believe to be evil. Especially since you were in this said doctrine of devils at one time in your life. I was simply meaning that instead of the dislike of Nehemiah's post, simply go through it point by point if you even want to respond at all. If not, pass it by. We don't have to respond to all or any post. I hasten to remind you that I am not you nor are my experiences yours. Nor my interpretations of Scripture seen exactly as you see them. I do not believe as Nehemiah posted he believes I do. His explanation of me and Prince are false on so many levels yet despite my many attempts to correct him (and some others on CC) he is not hearing me any more than you are. So how do I respond? Keep on keeping on correcting you and others every day exactly the same way I already have? No way can I do that since I'd be just reposting the same thing again and again. I don't have time to win you over. That isn't my job. I've already done my part to discuss and be open. It's your turn now. With Nehemiah's post, he was responding to Marc's comment and not yours. So he went through the devotional point by point. It wasn't aimed at you at all. It was about Prince and his false teachings. As to the differences of experiences and interpretations you speak of......of course! That's why we're not agreeing......they're too different. So okay, that's really the best option for you is to not respond to those of us who want to bring in truth to the discussion. It's best to accept the fact that there will be those who will agree with the devotional by Prince and there will be those who will not.So., to reiterate ; I've already answered each and every wrong accusation concerning my ideas on healing in the atonement as well as the righteousness of Christ and my beliefs on how only Jesus Atonement satisfies God like this thread discusses. The fact is you and others here do not believe in healing in the atonement and will argue it each and every time I post any other beliefs that off shoot from that and there are many for sure. That is just the way it is. We see different interpretations about Christ's atonement.I was simply responding to the original post which is a devotional by Joseph Prince. I wasn't making this a personal thing between you and myself. I just know there are others here in the forums and there are others as guests who come in here and read. I had some time on my hands and would have gone through the devotional myself and list why it was not biblical, but Nehemiah had already done so. So., instead of calling my beliefs of the devil., maybe you and Nehemiah and others could agree to disagree as that is a more profitable way to deal with our differences in doctrine. I do it here all the time. I don't like arguing about ideas we have already been clear we totally disagree about. There is no point beating a dead horse. I am calling the teachings of Prince false for sure for they are doctrines of demons. I could agree to disagree on things that don't affect salvation. But when it's another gospel altogether, or a false teaching, we are to speak up as the apostles did. In fact, Paul commended the Bereans for checking out the scriptures to see if what Paul was teaching was the truth or not.And Paul said to prove all things and hold on to what is right. To prove, we test all things and to test words that are shared as the truth of the gospel, we check them out with God's word. Yes? Yes! We do this out of love for God and love for others to hopefully save them from false teaching. This is a serious matter......it's not a simple argument over what ice cream tastes the best........it's about life and death. Is not about a difference of opinion. Peoples lives are at stake here. It's about spending eternity in heaven or in hell. While I can appreciate your feelings about where you once were in your Bible understanding and your walk with Christ back then in your previous life, and how harmful those teachings were for you., They are not my findings about what the Bible says concerning what we have in Christ's atoning sacrifice on our behalf. Your conclusions and experiences are not mine. So be respectful and don't try to put your beliefs and conclusions on me. And if mine are not up to par with yours., don't accuse me of being used of the devil. (shhesshhh)You missed my point altogether, but that's okay.My faith in Christ's atoning sacrifice is how I look at the Bible. It has grown me and other believers the same way who hold to these Bible interpretations. We have a common ground and we are Christians no less than you are. We believe every Christian can speak in tongues today but I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't want to. I'm a 5 fold ministry Christian and happy to be of that Scripture interpretation. And for that reason, you and I will not come to a 100% happy agreement. And so we should not engage in a fight about it.I'm not fighting you, Joanmarie. I'm fighting the lies of Joseph Prince. If you happen to fall into his camp of beliefs that's your choice. But remember, my post was in agreement with Nehemiah's who spoke to Marc and not you. Yes it affects you and all who adhere to these false doctrines, but it isn't a personal response to you. I'm not evil nor am I un learned about the Bible. I'm 59 yrs old and have had a life on both sides of the tracks of this and ended up on this side of the tracks sort of speak. I've been healed and I've walked in many of the promises of Christ's atonement. And have yet to walk in more of His promises and look forward to that. But even though you lack experience in this., it is not my job to win you over. That's between you and Jesus. Actually that was my point for sharing a little bit about where I came from as far as being a part of the WOF church. I could never really buy into most of the stuff going on, but I did experience it and saw the good, the bad and the ugly. I was deceived there for a while. I don't have to believe your way to receive a healing. In fact, while attending a Baptist church my husband was cured of a kidney disease. Me and my kids got around him, laid our hands on him and prayed. And God healed him right them and there. The difference is that you believe healing is a guarantee in the atonement, where I would call this a false teaching. Healing is not guaranteed in the atonement. It's guarenteed when we receive our new resurrected bodies at the return of Jesus. This discussion goes beyond simple disagreement. Many Christians hold to both sides of what you and I are posting about. That is just a fact you need to acquiesce to and stop fighting against Christians like me about. It is a fact we disagree about DesertRose. I don't fight others here who disagree with me. I respect their views but I don't hold to their faith., I hold to my own faith in Christ and believe that the Lord will work these differences out as we go. This is where you don't really understand those who refute false teaching are all about. This is a serious matter. The God you think you worship is not the God we find in the pages of what we call the scriptures. So I can't acquiesce to false teachings that bring in a distortion of the gospel. Read Galatians. Did Paul acquiesce? Did Paul tell the Galatians it was okay to disagree on what the gospel is? No, this false teaching about circumcision is a false teaching, a false gospel and they were severing themselves from Christ by accepting this false doctrine of circumcision. Paul told them in very strong terms to knock it off and to return to Christ.I believe we are commanded to contend for the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the gospel you espouse is a false gospel and it will prevent others from entering into eternity with Jesus. That's why I responded. To hopefully save some from following after the god of this world who lures people into his trap.I'm just curious as to what you believe so please allow me to ask a question. Are all who call themselves Christian, truly a genuine believer? And if you answer no, who are the false believers? Can you name a false teacher in the body of Christ?
That's why we're not agreeing......they're too different. So okay, that's really the best option for you is to not respond to those of us who want to bring in truth to the discussion. It's best to accept the fact that there will be those who will agree with the devotional by Prince and there will be those who will not.So., to reiterate ; I've already answered each and every wrong accusation concerning my ideas on healing in the atonement as well as the righteousness of Christ and my beliefs on how only Jesus Atonement satisfies God like this thread discusses. The fact is you and others here do not believe in healing in the atonement and will argue it each and every time I post any other beliefs that off shoot from that and there are many for sure. That is just the way it is. We see different interpretations about Christ's atonement.I was simply responding to the original post which is a devotional by Joseph Prince. I wasn't making this a personal thing between you and myself. I just know there are others here in the forums and there are others as guests who come in here and read. I had some time on my hands and would have gone through the devotional myself and list why it was not biblical, but Nehemiah had already done so. So., instead of calling my beliefs of the devil., maybe you and Nehemiah and others could agree to disagree as that is a more profitable way to deal with our differences in doctrine. I do it here all the time. I don't like arguing about ideas we have already been clear we totally disagree about. There is no point beating a dead horse. I am calling the teachings of Prince false for sure for they are doctrines of demons. I could agree to disagree on things that don't affect salvation. But when it's another gospel altogether, or a false teaching, we are to speak up as the apostles did. In fact, Paul commended the Bereans for checking out the scriptures to see if what Paul was teaching was the truth or not.And Paul said to prove all things and hold on to what is right. To prove, we test all things and to test words that are shared as the truth of the gospel, we check them out with God's word. Yes? Yes! We do this out of love for God and love for others to hopefully save them from false teaching. This is a serious matter......it's not a simple argument over what ice cream tastes the best........it's about life and death. Is not about a difference of opinion. Peoples lives are at stake here. It's about spending eternity in heaven or in hell. While I can appreciate your feelings about where you once were in your Bible understanding and your walk with Christ back then in your previous life, and how harmful those teachings were for you., They are not my findings about what the Bible says concerning what we have in Christ's atoning sacrifice on our behalf. Your conclusions and experiences are not mine. So be respectful and don't try to put your beliefs and conclusions on me. And if mine are not up to par with yours., don't accuse me of being used of the devil. (shhesshhh)You missed my point altogether, but that's okay.My faith in Christ's atoning sacrifice is how I look at the Bible. It has grown me and other believers the same way who hold to these Bible interpretations. We have a common ground and we are Christians no less than you are. We believe every Christian can speak in tongues today but I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't want to. I'm a 5 fold ministry Christian and happy to be of that Scripture interpretation. And for that reason, you and I will not come to a 100% happy agreement. And so we should not engage in a fight about it.I'm not fighting you, Joanmarie. I'm fighting the lies of Joseph Prince. If you happen to fall into his camp of beliefs that's your choice. But remember, my post was in agreement with Nehemiah's who spoke to Marc and not you. Yes it affects you and all who adhere to these false doctrines, but it isn't a personal response to you. I'm not evil nor am I un learned about the Bible. I'm 59 yrs old and have had a life on both sides of the tracks of this and ended up on this side of the tracks sort of speak. I've been healed and I've walked in many of the promises of Christ's atonement. And have yet to walk in more of His promises and look forward to that. But even though you lack experience in this., it is not my job to win you over. That's between you and Jesus. Actually that was my point for sharing a little bit about where I came from as far as being a part of the WOF church. I could never really buy into most of the stuff going on, but I did experience it and saw the good, the bad and the ugly. I was deceived there for a while. I don't have to believe your way to receive a healing. In fact, while attending a Baptist church my husband was cured of a kidney disease. Me and my kids got around him, laid our hands on him and prayed. And God healed him right them and there. The difference is that you believe healing is a guarantee in the atonement, where I would call this a false teaching. Healing is not guaranteed in the atonement. It's guarenteed when we receive our new resurrected bodies at the return of Jesus. This discussion goes beyond simple disagreement. Many Christians hold to both sides of what you and I are posting about. That is just a fact you need to acquiesce to and stop fighting against Christians like me about. It is a fact we disagree about DesertRose. I don't fight others here who disagree with me. I respect their views but I don't hold to their faith., I hold to my own faith in Christ and believe that the Lord will work these differences out as we go. This is where you don't really understand those who refute false teaching are all about. This is a serious matter. The God you think you worship is not the God we find in the pages of what we call the scriptures. So I can't acquiesce to false teachings that bring in a distortion of the gospel. Read Galatians. Did Paul acquiesce? Did Paul tell the Galatians it was okay to disagree on what the gospel is? No, this false teaching about circumcision is a false teaching, a false gospel and they were severing themselves from Christ by accepting this false doctrine of circumcision. Paul told them in very strong terms to knock it off and to return to Christ.I believe we are commanded to contend for the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the gospel you espouse is a false gospel and it will prevent others from entering into eternity with Jesus. That's why I responded. To hopefully save some from following after the god of this world who lures people into his trap.I'm just curious as to what you believe so please allow me to ask a question. Are all who call themselves Christian, truly a genuine believer? And if you answer no, who are the false believers? Can you name a false teacher in the body of Christ?
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I guess you have no clue regarding objectivity and will continue to be personally offended
that's your problem and I'm sorry that you cannot seem to get past your false idea that people have some kind of personal problem with you
you can 'fellowship' with Joseph Prince as much as you want
nothing but personal and very silly comments which simply prove what I said
nonsense
carry on
that's your problem and I'm sorry that you cannot seem to get past your false idea that people have some kind of personal problem with you
you can 'fellowship' with Joseph Prince as much as you want
nothing but personal and very silly comments which simply prove what I said
nonsense
carry on
DesertRose, You are all over the page on this but the last part answers my disagreement with you.
This is where you don't really understand those who refute false teaching are all about. This is a serious matter. The God you think you worship is not the God we find in the pages of what we call the scriptures. So I can't acquiesce to false teachings that bring in a distortion of the gospel. Read Galatians. Did Paul acquiesce? Did Paul tell the Galatians it was okay to disagree on what the gospel is? No, this false teaching about circumcision is a false teaching, a false gospel and they were severing themselves from Christ by accepting this false doctrine of circumcision. Paul told them in very strong terms to knock it off and to return to Christ.I believe we are commanded to contend for the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the gospel you espouse is a false gospel and it will prevent others from entering into eternity with Jesus. That's why I responded. To hopefully save some from following after the god of this world who lures people into his trap.I'm just curious as to what you believe so please allow me to ask a question. Are all who call themselves Christian, truly a genuine believer? And if you answer no, who are the false believers? Can you name a false teacher in the body of Christ?
So., you say The God I - joaniemarie worships is not the God in the pages of what you Rose call the Scriptures? Really Rose?
What can I say to that? There is nothing of value as far as you're concerned that I have to offer since "I" worship a different God than you do. So you are going to explain to me who I should worship since in your opinion it's not the God of the Bible.
Sorry Rose., I'm good. I don't need to know what you know. Since what you know is not the truth. Obviously.
This is where you don't really understand those who refute false teaching are all about. This is a serious matter. The God you think you worship is not the God we find in the pages of what we call the scriptures. So I can't acquiesce to false teachings that bring in a distortion of the gospel. Read Galatians. Did Paul acquiesce? Did Paul tell the Galatians it was okay to disagree on what the gospel is? No, this false teaching about circumcision is a false teaching, a false gospel and they were severing themselves from Christ by accepting this false doctrine of circumcision. Paul told them in very strong terms to knock it off and to return to Christ.I believe we are commanded to contend for the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the gospel you espouse is a false gospel and it will prevent others from entering into eternity with Jesus. That's why I responded. To hopefully save some from following after the god of this world who lures people into his trap.I'm just curious as to what you believe so please allow me to ask a question. Are all who call themselves Christian, truly a genuine believer? And if you answer no, who are the false believers? Can you name a false teacher in the body of Christ?
So., you say The God I - joaniemarie worships is not the God in the pages of what you Rose call the Scriptures? Really Rose?
What can I say to that? There is nothing of value as far as you're concerned that I have to offer since "I" worship a different God than you do. So you are going to explain to me who I should worship since in your opinion it's not the God of the Bible.
Sorry Rose., I'm good. I don't need to know what you know. Since what you know is not the truth. Obviously.
7
With Nehemiah's post, he was responding to Marc's comment and not yours. So he went through the devotional point by point. It wasn't aimed at you at all. It was about Prince and his false teachings. As to the differences of experiences and interpretations you speak of......of course! That's why we're not agreeing......they're too different. So okay, that's really the best option for you is to not respond to those of us who want to bring in truth to the discussion. It's best to accept the fact that there will be those who will agree with the devotional by Prince and there will be those who will not
That's why we're not agreeing......they're too different. So okay, that's really the best option for you is to not respond to those of us who want to bring in truth to the discussion. It's best to accept the fact that there will be those who will agree with the devotional by Prince and there will be those who will not
no one on CC has the right to tell another member they are not allowed to post on a thread except for a moderator
these claims of personal attacks seem to be geared towards possibly generating false reports to a mod
if anyone else would post these teachings from Prince they would get exactly the same kind of response as can easily be proven from older threads
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following is an excellent post by Nehemiah6...with whom I disagree with on some things but neither he nor I think we are attacking each other personally.
I am reposting his post because he addresses the problems with Joseph Prince's theology on a major doctrine regarding the atonement (post 13)
followingfrom post 13 by Nehemiah6
Prince has completely avoided the issue of sin in a believer's life after salvation, and what God expects. We can believe that Christ is indeed the propitiation for our sins, but if we fail do deal with present sins as John tells us to do, that will not mean anything.
So do you now see how Joseph Prince distorts the truth and fails to address the actual issue which is connected with 1 John 2:2.
Here is what the epistle of John teaches us in the first two chapters, and Prince has dodged all of this:
1. God is Light and in Him is no darkness at all -- God will not tolerate sin in the believer's life (1:5)
2. We can claim to be walking in the Light, and yet walk in darkness (1:6)
3. We can have true fellowship with God and other believers only when we walk in the Light (1:7)
4. If we say we have no sin (walk in darkness) we deceive ourselves (1:8)
5. If we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1:9). [Note: this confession implies turning away from those sins and idols, and turning away means repentance.]
6. If we say we have not sinned we make God a liar (1:10)
7. John write all this so that we will not sin, but live righteously, soberly and godly in this present world (2:1)
8. However, we can and will sin (because the flesh is still in us) and if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous (2:1). [Note: This is not an excuse for sinning, but a provision for sin in the believer's life]
9. Christ is the propitiation (satisfactory substitute and sacrifice) for not only our sins, but the sins of the whole world (2:2)
10. The proof that we know God and Christ is that we will keep His commandments (2:3)
11. We are liars if we say we know God but fail to keep His commandments (2:4)
12. When we obey God's Word, God's love is perfected in us, and we then know that we are in Him (2:5)
13. If we say that we are abiding in Christ, then we must walk (or live) as He lived (2:6).
all of the above points are straight from scriptrue and address the devotional by Prince
that is the reason I post in these threads and the only reason. I agree that Prince's theology is not biblical in many points and therefore he should be avoided especially by those young in the faith who do not yet have the understanding that someone who has some maturity and understanding regarding true biblical doctrine has
that is the basis for most threads in the BDF. Discussion, without false accusation about the responders to a thread.
I am reposting his post because he addresses the problems with Joseph Prince's theology on a major doctrine regarding the atonement (post 13)
followingfrom post 13 by Nehemiah6
Prince has completely avoided the issue of sin in a believer's life after salvation, and what God expects. We can believe that Christ is indeed the propitiation for our sins, but if we fail do deal with present sins as John tells us to do, that will not mean anything.
So do you now see how Joseph Prince distorts the truth and fails to address the actual issue which is connected with 1 John 2:2.
Here is what the epistle of John teaches us in the first two chapters, and Prince has dodged all of this:
1. God is Light and in Him is no darkness at all -- God will not tolerate sin in the believer's life (1:5)
2. We can claim to be walking in the Light, and yet walk in darkness (1:6)
3. We can have true fellowship with God and other believers only when we walk in the Light (1:7)
4. If we say we have no sin (walk in darkness) we deceive ourselves (1:8)
5. If we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1:9). [Note: this confession implies turning away from those sins and idols, and turning away means repentance.]
6. If we say we have not sinned we make God a liar (1:10)
7. John write all this so that we will not sin, but live righteously, soberly and godly in this present world (2:1)
8. However, we can and will sin (because the flesh is still in us) and if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous (2:1). [Note: This is not an excuse for sinning, but a provision for sin in the believer's life]
9. Christ is the propitiation (satisfactory substitute and sacrifice) for not only our sins, but the sins of the whole world (2:2)
10. The proof that we know God and Christ is that we will keep His commandments (2:3)
11. We are liars if we say we know God but fail to keep His commandments (2:4)
12. When we obey God's Word, God's love is perfected in us, and we then know that we are in Him (2:5)
13. If we say that we are abiding in Christ, then we must walk (or live) as He lived (2:6).
all of the above points are straight from scriptrue and address the devotional by Prince
that is the reason I post in these threads and the only reason. I agree that Prince's theology is not biblical in many points and therefore he should be avoided especially by those young in the faith who do not yet have the understanding that someone who has some maturity and understanding regarding true biblical doctrine has
that is the basis for most threads in the BDF. Discussion, without false accusation about the responders to a thread.
I'm stopping this right here 7seas. No more discussions with you as they are causing me to try to defend a false report that can't be defended since it's not true. I'm done doing this with you. I should never have tried in the first place. There is no reasoning this kind of accusation. I think it's a very sad state for Christians to have to come to.
But I will continue to post here whether you ladies agree with me or rejoice with me or not. My joy is not going to be stolen in this matter.
But I will continue to post here whether you ladies agree with me or rejoice with me or not. My joy is not going to be stolen in this matter.
You still don't get it. As I already pointed out above (in detail) the context is sin in the believer's life and how it must be addressed. John says "if we confess ours sins..." Now does confession of sins mean repentance for those sins also, or is confession just a joke? According to Prince it is just a joke, since he plainly states
"Now, it does not say that if anyone repents, we have an Advocate with the Father".
The Scripture says "If any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father". Does that not include repentance? But Prince flatly controverts that truth by what he says. Which translates into doing nothing about your sins, and making a mockery of this entire teaching.
After that he presents one red herring after another, but fails to say that Christians who sin must confess their sins as well as repent to maintain fellowship with the Godhead. And no, he does NOT explain Bible repentance at all. Just read what he wrote in that section.
"Now, it does not say that if anyone repents, we have an Advocate with the Father".
The Scripture says "If any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father". Does that not include repentance? But Prince flatly controverts that truth by what he says. Which translates into doing nothing about your sins, and making a mockery of this entire teaching.
After that he presents one red herring after another, but fails to say that Christians who sin must confess their sins as well as repent to maintain fellowship with the Godhead. And no, he does NOT explain Bible repentance at all. Just read what he wrote in that section.