ONLY CHRIST'S ATONEMENT SATISFIES GOD

[stonesoffire]

You still don't get it. As I already pointed out above (in detail) the context is sin in the believer's life and how it must be addressed. John says "if we confess ours sins..." Now does confession of sins mean repentance for those sins also, or is confession just a joke? According to Prince it is just a joke, since he plainly states

"Now, it does not say that if anyone repents, we have an Advocate with the Father".

The Scripture says "If any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father". Does that not include repentance? But Prince flatly controverts that truth by what he says. Which translates into doing nothing about your sins, and making a mockery of this entire teaching.

After that he presents one red herring after another, but fails to say that Christians who sin must confess their sins as well as repent to maintain fellowship with the Godhead. And no, he does NOT explain Bible repentance at all. Just read what he wrote in that section.

I don't think it's me that doesn't get it Nehemiah. You aren't actually seeing what Prince is saying. He says you don't have to act as if you are worthless scum when you do sin and come crawling back to God begging and pleading Him for forgiveness. My words of course, just emphasizing in my way.

In other words, like Adam and Eve, you don't have to hide and carry condemnation all your life. This is what the natural man will do to self when religious. And then we will have the religious Pharisee Christian rise up and rather than being as Paul reveals as the way to deal with sin, they continually point their fingers at the sin and never allow restoration to occur.

No where in Prince's writings have I ever read to not fellowship with the Lord on a continual daily walk. He never has said that one can walk apart from the Lord. Has he?

Prince is attacking religious mindsets of condemnation that paralyzes believers from going on from failures.

If we sin we have an advocate. The blood of Jesus on the mercy seat before Father has a continual Voice calling to the world! How less would that blood call to His own? Never. Better than the Voice of Abel crying for vengeance, but cries mercy and forgiveness. That is why we can turn and say Father I'm sorry. Blood cries forgiven. Than restoration occurs.

Prince is teaching the truth of the word repent. Turn from the sin, turn back to God.

You aren't getting his entirety of teachings in this one short devotional. If you follow him, then when you read what he writes, you will understand the devotional.

How many of Gods children give up thinking that they can't live this life, not knowing that Jesus had the sin of the world laid on Him on that Cross, so much that it marred His very appearance? All the curse of sin He took away! Leaving what to His Children? The blessing of Abraham that maketh one rich. Not materially though that might be, but the blessing of Spirit. The comforter. The very nature of the Holiness of God is freely given from the first that we believe. Then we grow "into" the Christ, the anointing of God as we live before Him.

This is the teaching of grace.

Just walk with Him. When the old man is tempted to act like he still lives, and we fall for the lie? Turn back to the blood on the mercy seat boldly. Always is there acceptance. There we find help in our time of need.

You wont see this sitting in a religious cloud of thinking.

 

[Desertsrose]

Anything we do that is carnal or fleshly needs to be confessed because we not only offend God, but we also grieve the Holy Spirit.

So although God has paid the price for all of our sins, they are forgiven in real time. We are not born-again and saved until we actually repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. It's in real time. And yet, before the foundations of the world we've been chosen in Him to be holy and blameless.

So although we've been chosen before creation to be holy and blameless, we still, in the here and now work out our salvation with fear and trembling because it is God at work in us to will and to do His good pleasure.

God works in real time. In our time. There's a difference between a positional benefit and a relational in the here and now benefit. I'm raise and seated in the heavenlies, but in reality my spirit, soul and body are here on earth. That doesn't mean I'm not seated in heaven, but it's positionally.

Because we are in relationship with God, we will have sorrow and grief because we've sinned against God. And if we don't grieve over sin, I'd wonder if the person was ever born again.

The fatherly relationship we have with God will cause us to confess our sins. That's part of Him working in us to do His good pleasure.

In Prince's story, he makes it seem like repentance is an ugly thing when it's really beautiful and God's way to restore fellowship.

In the natural life, if I've done something to hurt another person, I want to make it right with them. I will ask for another person's forgiveness so that the relationship can be restored. How much more with God do we need to restore our relationship with Him when we've sinned against Him.

Prince makes something of God's love and beauty into an ugly thing. What can be more glorious than for someone who's sinned against their God to have sorrow and be cleansed and have fellowship restored.

Here's something for you to consider by Colin Smith who you can hear on Moody radio.

[FONT=&quot]What will happen if you don’t confess your sins?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Psalm 32 offers us several powerful reasons to confess our sins and shows us the consequences of unconfessed sin. David felt weak and was miserable when he did not confess.

Verses 3-4 says, “For when I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. For day and night your hand was heavy upon me; my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Before confessing his sin, David was exhausted. Why? The life was being drained out of him by sin. If you do not weaken sin, it saps your spiritual strength, it weakens you. When I see a sin forming in my life, I must say, “If I’m to serve Christ, I dare not let this grow! It’ll drain the life out of me…”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Why should you confess your sins?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In addition to avoiding the negative effects of unconfessed sin, biblical confession is a way to experience more of God’s grace. Biblical confession should be in some ways a joy due to the rich benefits God gives us through it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This does not mean that God will only forgive a sin only if it has been specifically confessed. When a Christian repents and believes the Gospel of Jesus Christ, all of their sins, past, present, and future are immediately forgiven![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Confessing is part of the sanctification process and aids Christians in dealing with sin and healing from it. James 5:16 says, “Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Why confess your sin if God already knows your sin?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Christians confess their sins to God to practice humbleness before him and to fess up to the bad things they have done. It takes a humble person to admit their mistakes! Humility is a vital part of confession and aids the restoration of Christians who have quenched the Spirit of God. Peter in 1 Peter 5:6 says, “Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A True Confession is Done in Humility with an Attitude of Repentance[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you. 1 Peter 5:6

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” James 4:6[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“…you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God…For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation…” 2 Corinthians 7:9-10[/FONT]
Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.Blessed is the man against whom the LORD counts no iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit.
For when I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long.
For day and night your hand was heavy upon me; my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer. Selah

I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity; I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,” and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah Psalm 32:1-5[FONT=&quot]Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy. Proverbs 28:13[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. James 5:16 [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9[/FONT]

 

[joaniemarie]

I have nothing against anyone who wants to confess their sins DesrtRose., You do what you are comfortable with. I've come to see it differently than I used to and the way you currently do. 1 John 1:9 has taken on a major different meaning for me since learning about the righteousness of God IN Christ. I no longer believe we step in and out of righteousness. I have moved out of my old covenant way of living the Christian life into the new covenant of grace.

What you posted is interesting but it is something I no longer hold to. As explained to you before old testament saints lived under a different covenant that had different requirements. I see the error of the teaching I received that said I needed to re-attain my righteousness. I now believe righteousness is a gift we each received the moment we got saved. We don't step in and out of our righteous standing. It's solid because it's a gift given for all eternity as long as Jesus lives.

I'll post some Bible commentary about 2 Cor. 7:9-10 and hope you read it and just hear another point of view on the subject. I'll post it in the next post for you. It is what I believe today and not what I believed in my younger days as a Christian woman. You are free to agree or disagree.

 

[joaniemarie]

What is Godly Sorrow?

Posted on October 15, 2014 by Paul Ellis // 38 Comments

“For godly sorrow worketh repentance…” (2 Cor 7:10). What is godly sorrow? Apparently it’s when the Holy Spirit makes you sorry for your sin. “God grieves over you, you sorry excuse for a Christian. You have become an enemy of God!”
There are some who insist you must weep and wail when you repent. “You need to show some godly sorrow,” they insist. “Repentance must be marked by regret, tears, and grief-stricken anguish.”
In other words, if you don’t weep, your repentance isn’t genuine.

Spurgeon had a different view:
A curious idea men have of what repentance is! Many fancy that so many tears are to be shed, and so many groans are to be heaved, and so much despair is to be endured. Whence comes this unreasonable notion? Unbelief and despair are sins, and therefore I do not see how they can be constituent elements of acceptable repentance; yet there are many who regard them as necessary parts of true Christian experience. They are in great error … To repent is to change your mind about sin, and Christ, and all the great things of God.

What is godly sorrow?
The “godly sorrow” that Paul refers to is the sorrow the Corinthians felt when they read his letter. It’s the sorrow we all experience when we realize we have made a hash of things, missed the way, and grieved our Father.
Is there pain and discomfort involved with the Holy Spirit’s conviction? Often there is. But this pain is not inflicted by the Holy Spirit. It is the regret of realizing we have missed the mark.

No doubt Paul had some experience of this when he learned that he had been persecuting the Lord (see Acts 9:5). With that revelation – that he, a man of God, had actually been opposed to the things of God – came the realization that everything he had done up to then was but dung (Php 3:8). His years of study and religious activity were nothing but wood for the fire. What a waste!
But the distress itself wasn’t wasted because it led to a change of mind; it produced repentance and Paul became a new man. This why is he was happy when the Corinthians went through a similar distress:

Now I’m glad – not that you were upset, but that you were jarred into turning things around. You let the distress bring you to God, not drive you from him. The result was all gain, no loss. Distress that drives us to God does that. It turns us around. It gets us back in the way of salvation. We never regret that kind of pain. But those who let distress drive them away from God are full of regrets, end up on a deathbed of regrets. (2 Cor 7:9-10, MSG)

Don’t ever fall for the lie that says repentance without tears is worthless. When you encounter the goodness of God in an unexpected way, the important thing is not whether you laugh or cry but that you repent – that you embrace what God is showing you and allow his grace to change you.

Godly sorrow is not something you have to manufacture to impress the Lord. Nor is it a work that has to accompany your faith. Godly sorrow is when God works through the aches and hurts of our mistakes to draw us to himself.
If your sorrow leads you to God, then it’s good and godly sorrow. But if it leads you away from him, perhaps because you have been told to focus on your unworthiness, then it’s not.

How to respond to sin
When you sin or miss the mark, the temptation will be to beat yourself up and vow to do better and religion will be only too happy to coach you through this. Faithless religion will condemn you as a sinner (“Look at what you did!”) and prescribe a course of remedial action (“Put on the proverbial sackcloth and ashes.”) Do you see how carnal this is? The emphasis is totally on your behavior. You did a bad thing; now do this good thing to make it right. This is the way of Adam, not Jesus.

When you sin it’s perfectly natural to feel bad and it takes no faith to reach for the fig leaves of dead religion. But if your sorrow is to be godly sorrow, then your focus must be on what Christ has done and not what you have done.
As Andrew Wommack says: “If you feel like you’re so sorry, then praise him for the fact that he loves such a sorry person as you! Instead of focusing on your unworthiness, thank him for his goodness.”

A faith-based response to sin is to look to the One who died for sinners, who loves you in your sin, and who speaks to the Father in your defense. Don’t listen to those who speak the words of the Accuser; listen to Jesus!



​I like this very much and found it extremely helpful when the enemy came at me with condemnation.

 

[joaniemarie]

This is all good news to me and uplifts me out of the pits of my old manner of living. Our old manner of living doesn't fit with our new spirit man. Moving up and out of that old manner of living is what we are called to.
When the Bible says to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" what it's saying is we work OUT what Christ has worked IN us. We do it with all seriousness and determination of the faith given. We don't work for our salvation., we work FROM our salvation and the gifts given to us by Jesus.

This is a totally different way to walk in faith than I was first taught to live my Christian life. And I thank God for being Holy Spirit lead and not emotion lead anymore. I don't count on my tears or my feelings anymore because they are subject to the weather., my diet and even my hormones. But faith in Christ and dependence on the HolySpirit's leading causes me to see the truth needed to make the right choices and walk in newness of life and not in the old manner of living. Amen and thank You Jesus for your gift of righteousness.

 

[joaniemarie]

Why should we Christians be shocked and appalled when we read other Christians don't see things exactly the same way we do? Why should that be offensive? As long as the doctrines of Christ are being agreed here (and they are) We should and must be able to co-exist here on CC.

Sure., everyone is not going to like J. Prince or Paul Ellis or even Charles Stanley. Billy Graham or Lester Roloff., Joyce Meyer or even Charles Spurgeon for Pete's sake!! People don't like many of the teachings of other Christians but seriously that is tough beans! These are brothers and sisters IN Christ we're talking about who are out there with their books and their sermons and history. They are here to stay folks.

I seriously don't like John MacGarther's teaching and his judgments of others who disagree with him but I'd never condemn the man as a heretic since I was taught many things under his radio ministry as a young Christian that in some good ways helped me to understand some Bible doctrine. He is a believer who I just personally don't like the preaching and teaching of like before. I'd probably post a devotional of his if it was a good one but since I don't follow him on radio anymore I don't have any reason to. There are way to many other preachers and teachers I like better.

Billy Graham is also a man of God I respect but I don't happen to read his material so I don't post his stuff. I like Dr. David Jerimiah and J.Vernon McGee too but prefer more of the preaching and teaching that has more about healing and speaking in tongues and goes deep into teaching about what the righteousness of God in Christ means for believers today. I'm way more into that than I am involved in some of the other topics that run here on CC.

Joining in threads for the benefit of discussion is always good but when it gets argumentative or mean I then find no encouragement or benefit in mud slinging. I really can't stand that. And it's too easy to be put on the defensive. I love coming here for the benefits of sharing and meeting other believers and hearing their views as well as sharing my own. It's an amazing place to post Bible verses and thoughts and ideas about Jesus and the Bible that we are learning about.

 

[Grandpa]

What is most misunderstood by people who don't like Joseph Prince is the thought of doing things, such as confession and repentance, to earn salvation and favor.


But the truth is, as joaniemarie has pointed out, that we work from the position of already being saved, already being forgiven, already having received favor.

That is how faith operates. Not wondering if they have repented enough or confessed enough or completed all the necessary steps and checked off all the things required for salvation.


Its the difference in understanding between trying to be saved and already knowing you are saved.


We can't give people our understanding. Because it didn't come from ourselves to begin with.


Its not hard to understand working for something and then being owed because of it. What is hard to understand is being given something of great worth that you weren't able to earn on your own.

 

[joaniemarie]

What is most misunderstood by people who don't like Joseph Prince is the thought of doing things, such as confession and repentance, to earn salvation and favor.


But the truth is, as joaniemarie has pointed out, that we work from the position of already being saved, already being forgiven, already having received favor.

That is how faith operates. Not wondering if they have repented enough or confessed enough or completed all the necessary steps and checked off all the things required for salvation.


Its the difference in understanding between trying to be saved and already knowing you are saved.


We can't give people our understanding. Because it didn't come from ourselves to begin with.


Its not hard to understand working for something and then being owed because of it. What is hard to understand is being given something of great worth that you weren't able to earn on your own.

Thank you Grandpa for taking the time to read and understand what has been posted here. Very much appreciated.

 

[UnderGrace]

Its not hard to understand working for something and then being owed because of it. What is hard to understand is being given something of great worth that you weren't able to earn on your own

I could say so much just with regards to these two sentences, they are very powerful!!

It is indeed hard to "deny self" because we tend to want to do it in our own self-effort which is ultimately contradictory

But when one's eyes are opened and the meaning of "deny self" comes clear then one really understands what the finished work of Christ accomplished..... then one can learn to live in that new reality of being righteous (the something of great worth) in Christ

Grandpa you never fail to inspire!!

What is most misunderstood by people who don't like Joseph Prince is the thought of doing things, such as confession and repentance, to earn salvation and favor.


But the truth is, as joaniemarie has pointed out, that we work from the position of already being saved, already being forgiven, already having received favor.

That is how faith operates. Not wondering if they have repented enough or confessed enough or completed all the necessary steps and checked off all the things required for salvation.


Its the difference in understanding between trying to be saved and already knowing you are saved.


We can't give people our understanding. Because it didn't come from ourselves to begin with.


Its not hard to understand working for something and then being owed because of it. What is hard to understand is being given something of great worth that you weren't able to earn on your own.

 

[Speak2Me]

2 Peter 3:9 ESV
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

1 John 1:9 ESV /
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Romans 2:4ESV
Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?

Matthew 3:8 ESV
Bear fruit in keeping with repentance.

2 Corinthians 7:10 ESV
For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death

Acts 26:20 ESV
But declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.

Hebrews 6:1 ESV
Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

Acts 8:22 ESV
Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you.

2 Corinthians 7:9-10 ESV
As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

James 5:19-20 ESV
My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

James 4:8-10 ESV
Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.




Revelation 2:5 ESV
Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

Revelation 3:19 ESV
Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

Revelation 3:3 ESV
Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.

Revelation 2:21 ESV
I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her sexual immorality.

Revelation 22:
18I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

May the Lord reveal His will to those who read and understand His word.

 

[Nehemiah6]

That is how faith operates. Not wondering if they have repented enough or confessed enough or completed all the necessary steps and checked off all the things required for salvation.

Since we are not even discussing salvation in this thread, why in the world would you bring this up? Kindly read through what has been posted. This is not about what is required for salvation, but what is required for FELLOWSHIP.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Oh Good grief you two. First., your long post about what you find wrong about my beliefs is full of false conclusions of the first statements made in this devotional. Then you go on to take apart the thing you already judged wrong that you deducted was being said in the devotional.

You both need to join the ranks of those who don't agree with me and don't post on my threads. Like them., you do not understand what has been shared nor do you care to. Then you further distort the narrative by concluding more conclusions on top of wrong conclusions and then condemn the whole. It just boggles my mind how you have the time and the desire to misunderstand that far. And then take the extra time to post here.

When I began to even think of where to start in helping you understand what is truly being said by me about this devotional I just lose heart to do it. It's been said already thousands of times before and re-written and you just prefer to ignore the facts. You are not interested in knowing. You have made your judgment about me. And now I have no desire to set you straight. I truly think you don't want to know and prefer to stay where you are in your false assessment.

When I post these devotionals., they are a very helpful spring board to some very good topics of concern and encouragement about walking the Christian walk. The things I take the time to post are close to my heart about the faith walk and learning about who we are in Christ. I frankly don't understand the opposition. But can't let that stop me from sharing the things the Lord puts on my heart here.

Why don't you guys who dislike these threads so much start your own threads about righteousness and the Christian walk and how you have discovered through reading the Bible and from other Godly men and woman the best way to encourage the brethren here. Post devotionals from those believers who have helped you and cause you to think. That would be a much better way to spend your time here.

I wanted to give you rep points for that post but I have to spread rep around first.Very,VERY well said.

 

[joaniemarie]

Since we are not even discussing salvation in this thread, why in the world would you bring this up? Kindly read through what has been posted. This is not about what is required for salvation, but what is required for FELLOWSHIP.

Why should we Christians be shocked and appalled Nehemiah when we read other Christians don't see things exactly the same way we do? Why should that be offensive to you Nehemiah? As long as the doctrines of Christ are being agreed here (and they are) We should and must be able to co-exist here on CC.

Sure., everyone is not going to like or always agree with J. Prince or Paul Ellis or Charles Stanley, Billy Graham or Lester Roloff., Joyce Meyer or even Charles Spurgeon for Pete's sake. People don't like many of the teachings of other Christians but seriously that is tough beans Nehemiah., These are brothers and sisters IN Christ we're talking about who are out there with their books and their sermons and history. They are here to stay Nehemiah.

I seriously don't like John MacGarther's teaching and his judgments of others who disagree with him but I'd never condemn the man as a heretic since I was taught many things under his radio ministry as a young Christian that in some good ways helped me to understand some Bible doctrine. MacGarther is a believer who I just personally don't like the preaching and teaching of like I used to in years gone by..

I'd probably post a devotional of his if it was a good one and didn't discuss a subject he and I disagree on like "Lordship salvation" but since I don't agree with his teaching on how the believer walks by faith., and I no longer follow him on radio, I don't have any reason post his material. There are way to many other preachers and teachers I find who preach the Bible clearer than he does. That's my personal choice.

Billy Graham is a man of God I respect but I don't happen to read his material so I don't post his stuff. I like Dr. David Jerimiah and J.Vernon McGee too but prefer more of the preaching and teaching that has more about healing and speaking in tongues and goes deep into teaching about what the righteousness of God in Christ means for believers today. I'm way more into that than I am involved in some of the other topics that run here on CC.

Joining in threads for the benefit of discussion is always good but when it gets argumentative or accusatory like when you post here Nehemiah., I then find no encouragement or benefit in your mud slinging. I really can't stand that. And it's too easy to be put on the defensive. I love coming here for the benefits of sharing and meeting other believers and hearing their views as well as sharing my own. It's an amazing place to post Bible verses and thoughts and ideas about Jesus and the Bible that we are learning about. But I don't come here each day to defend my position as a true believer in Jesus Christ because I've been here long enough to have established that clearly. Even if you don't agree that I am not a heretic., that is a problem you need to go to the administration with here on CC about for allowing who 'you' regard as a false teacher to be a good standing member who posts here daily.

Until you do that and I'm banned from CC as the heretic you say I am., please quit the mud slinging.

 

[Grandpa]

Since we are not even discussing salvation in this thread, why in the world would you bring this up? Kindly read through what has been posted. This is not about what is required for salvation, but what is required for FELLOWSHIP.

There's a such thing as salvation without fellowship?