OSAS= House Built on Sand

[TheDivineWatermark]

From Galatians 5:23 (re: "self-control" - G1466 - egkrateia ) :

quoting,

"1466 egkráteia (from 1722 /en, "in the sphere of" and 2904 /krátos, "dominion, mastery") – properly, dominion within, i.e. "self-control" – proceeding out from within oneself, but not by oneself.

"For the believer, 1466 /egkráteia ("self-control, Spirit-control") can only be accomplished by the power of the Lord. Accordingly, 1466 /egkráteia ("true mastery from within") is explicitly called a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:23)."

end quoting [from Bible Hub].

[bold / underline emphasis mine]


Also, Philippians 1:11 states, "having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which is by means of Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God."

And Hebrews 13:20-21 states, "Now may the God of peace, having brought out from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep, our Lord Jesus, by the blood of the eternal covenant, equip you in everything good, in order to do His will, working [/doing] in us that which is well pleasing before Him, by means of Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory to the ages of the ages. Amen."

See Romans 8:4, "that the righteousness OF the law might be fulfilled IN us [note, not BY us], who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit."

"If we live by the Spirit, we should also walk by the Spirit." Gal5:25

 

[preston39]

So how much obedience does it take? How many acts of obedience/works must we accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him save us?

In Romans 3:24, my Bible says that we are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

m...,

How much?...live a righteous life...full obedience.

You are sadly mistaken if you think all we have to do is say...forgive me.... and then return to a sinful life. Like pregnancy...there is no such thing as a little bit righteous.
Good luck with that one.

 

[mailmandan]

m...,

How much...live a righteous life...full obedience.

You are sadly mistaken if you think all we have to do is say...forgive me.... and then return to a sinful life. Good luck with that one.

I didn’t say anything about return to a sinful life. That is a strawman argument. Full obedience? As in sinless perfection? You are sadly mistaken if you think you will receive eternal life based on the merits of sinless, perfect obedience.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I didn’t say anything about return to a sinful life. That is a strawman argument. Full obedience? As in sinless perfection? You are sadly mistaken if you think you will receive eternal life based on the merits of sinless, perfect obedience.

amen

 

[preston39]

I didn’t say anything about return to a sinful life. That is a strawman argument. Full obedience? As in sinless perfection? You are sadly mistaken if you think you will receive eternal life based on the merits of sinless, perfect obedience.

m...,

I didn't say ..perfect...I said obedient...as in continual repentance. We are not perfect but, we can be a perfect servant. G-d knows what is in our heart.
Sacrifice for forgiveness is not available where sin is present...we are reminded.

 

[mailmandan]

m...,

I didn't say ..perfect...I said obedient...as in continual repentance. We are not perfect but, we can be a perfect servant. G-d knows what is in our heart.
Sacrifice for forgiveness is not available where sin is present...we are reminded.

So we are not perfect but, we can be a perfect servant? Sounds like an oxymoron unless you are comparing absolute perfection with maturity. The only way for sin not to be present at all would be because of sinless perfection (which is impossible - Romans 3:23) or the blood of Christ washing away our sins based on our faith in Christ. So imperfect obedience is what you are trusting in to save you?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

In 1 Peter 1:15, the verb "be [you]" in the phrase "[holy] be [you]" ("But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation") is in the passive.


https://biblehub.com/text/1_peter/1-15.htm

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

So imperfect obedience is what you are trusting in to save you?

A wholly inadequate savior, if you ask me.

 

[Ralph-]

@Ralph- ..it just hurts my heart that you arent assured in your salvation unless you continue to do "good"..

The security of salvation comes from believing in Christ. The assurance that you really do believe and trust in Christ comes from seeing the Holy Spirit in how you act. What makes 'once saved always saved' the popular ear tickling doctrine that it is today is the fact that the majority of Christians do not have lives that testify that they are sons and daughters of God. They may well be, but few Christians it seems actually mature to the point where you can see the fruit of the Spirit in their lives. And I think it's because the vast majority of Christians have John's baptism of repentance but do not have the power of Christ's baptism in the Holy Spirit.

“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.” 3And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.”4Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them" - Acts 19:2-6

You won't live a successful Christian life until you move beyond John's baptism and into Christ's. You won't have the assurance that you really are saved until you see your life changing by the Holy Spirit.

i pray Ralph that youll come to realize that Christs death and saving grace IS SUFFICIANT!

I know and trust that Christ's sacrifice is sufficient all by itself to justify me before the Father in heaven. I know that I really do believe and trust in Christ's sacrifice and am justified through him by the change of character the Holy Spirit has worked in me. The change God works in your character is how you know for sure that you have the Holy Spirit in salvation.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Ralph, are you saying that one only has salvation when they have "assurance" of it? IOW, is "assurance" salvation?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[tried to edit to add]

I'm thinking of James 2 and the example supplied there, in verse 21. "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" which event was quite a number of YEARS AFTER the "Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." (read the entire context of Romans 4). Was God in doubt of Abraham's status those many [interim] years?

 

[LW97]

Where the tares ever wheat?

 

[LW97]

U...,

Not per The Bible.
That is a sad commentary knowing G-d's commandments and intent of His word. Plus scriptures says..."road is narrow and few will find the way"....an Ominous warning.

Yes, most find it in the first place. It's not like they really get converted and fall off again

 

[UnderGrace]

Show me in Romans 11 where Paul is saying once a person has eternal life it can not be revoked. I'll show you where he says the promises made to Israel can not be revoked even though they have rejected Jesus. Paul himself being proof of that.

Context, UG, context!



No, it defies YOUR gospel.



Now show me the chapter and verse that says my believing is me trying to earn my own salvation. Do that and you win the argument.

The very fact that at the end of your life, you will stand on the fact that you kept the faith to be saved, is a boast, because you have placed your ability above others. Either we all boast or no one boasts.

Scripture is very clear no one will boast.

So you promote a works Gospel.

End of Story.

Ephesians 2:9
8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.…

 

[LW97]

*most DO NOT find it in the first place

 

[Jewel5712]

As you can see, I posted the two parables that are the same.

The parable of the lost sheep.

The context is clear.

The sheep must be persuaded to repent or remain lost.


12 “What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? 13 And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. Matthew 18:12-14



4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7





JPT

I dont think the sheep HAS to be persued IN ORDER to repent...i think God persues his sheep regardless ..but its still our CHOICE to repent or not and God patiently waits...

 

[Jewel5712]

*most DO NOT find it in the first place

Which is sad in itself!

 

[dcontroversal]

No, their right to enter based upon believing. Get it right!

Get your facts straigh deceiver....to enter they had to go in and TAKE THE LAND = WORKS....AND GOD WOULD HAVE DONE THE WORK....the more you blather the more evident it becomes that you don't know the bible!

 

[preston39]

So we are not perfect but, we can be a perfect servant? Sounds like an oxymoron unless you are comparing absolute perfection with maturity. The only way for sin not to be present at all would be because of sinless perfection (which is impossible - Romans 3:23) or the blood of Christ washing away our sins based on our faith in Christ. So imperfect obedience is what you are trusting in to save you?

m...,

You are ....miss-com-bobulating scripture, intent and meaning. Suggest you study the book of Job.
It appears you are not familiar with all scriptures.

 

[preston39]

Yes, most find it in the first place. It's not like they really get converted and fall off again

l...,
That is inconsistent with the above scripture. I will accept the Bible version.