OSAS= House Built on Sand

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 23, 2016
2,771
547
113
We must confess our sin in order to be forgiven.
So you won't answer the question :sneaky:

It appears to me you believe that if a born again believer sins and then dies before he or she confesses his or her sin, that person is cast into the lake of fire.

Just answer with a simple "yes" or "no".

I do not need more of your ambiguity, nor do you need to deflect to other topics ("to whom much is given" or
"new born baby Christian" / "40 year Christian") when all you need to do is answer "yes" or "no".

Here is the question:


If a born again believer sins and then dies before he or she confesses his or her sin, is that person cast into the lake of fire?
"Yes" or "No"
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
53
48
I already explained this to you in post #1,543. - https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/osas-house-built-on-sand.178412/page-78

The Pharisees were good at making the word of God of none effect through their tradition. You are all over the place.

The one who is continuously (Greek present tense) sowing to his own corrupt, sinful nature which is opposed to God and unrenewed by the Holy Spirit shall of the flesh reap corruption. Our life here is sowing of one kind or another. But he who sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap everlasting life. In opposition to corruption, eternal life is produced by the Holy Spirit in those who put their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation.

Again, this is descriptive of children of disobedience, not children of God. I already explained that in post #1,543 as well.

The wages of sin is death (all have sinned and come short of the glory of God) BUT the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 3:23; 6:23).

Genuine faith does not remain void of evidential works. We do posses eternal life the moment we believe because Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works (Romans 3:22-28). *It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony* :)

It sure is and unbelievers will be judged according to their works and will be found wanting and will be cast in the lake of fire. For some unbelievers, it will be worse! Matthew 23:14 - "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive greater condemnation. For believers, they will be judged to determine rewards and loss of rewards, not salvation or loss of salvation (1 Corinthians 3:11-15).

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Simple!

In spite of all appearances, there was a remnant in this church which have not defiled their garments. Revelation 3:5 is another verse that impacts this issue. "He who overcomes I will never blot out his name from the book of life." The "overcomer" mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Believer/Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: "Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith." (y)

Certain people read Revelation 3:5 as if God’s pen is poised and ready to strike out the name of any Christian who does not overcome every possible struggle in life that there is to overcome. They read into it like this: "If you don't overcome every struggle in life and win the victory, then you’re going to lose your salvation! In fact, I will erase your name from the Book of Life!" But that is NOT what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning.

He that rejected Me and receiveth not My words is descriptive of unbelievers. More works salvation/lose salvation confusion on your part. You sound over confident about your works and quick to judge others who understand that salvation is by grace through faith, not works.
Why is that? :unsure:
12 For the word of God is alive and active.Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight.Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wisefor salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own;God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil,and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.18 Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.

True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 by their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness?4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
673
184
43
We must confess our sin in order to be forgiven.


There is also the principle of to whom much is given much is expected.


God does not require of a new born baby Christian what He requires of a 40 year Christian.



JPT
We are fully forgiven if we are in Christ. We must admit we are a sinner to be accepted in the first place.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
8,904
1,503
113
NO!!! it sometimes happens that we don't even 'know' that we have hurt our Saviour,
until The Holy Spirit convicts us at the proper time...

and then, of course, we can only 'repent' as our hearts belong to Him and His ways...
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Translation........

Thus speaketh the Lord God...... I am a revolving door of righteousness, the lather -rinse - repeat righteousness..... as long as you keep on believing in the lather - rinse - repeat righteousness cycle you will be saved.
No, silly. Jesus said believers who have had their whole body washed only need their feet washed, not their whole body.

The person who continues in the believing they started out in stays in the justification they received when they first believed. It would be the ex-believer whom God has turned over to their decision to not believe anymore that needs to be justified again. Problem is, God doesn't allow that. So come back, ex-believers reading this, while God is still allowing you to come back.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Eternal is eternal no matter what dictinary, what lexicon, or what ever form you use,

It means eternal, never ending, forever, without end,

John 17:3 does not say any different, no matter what you think it says,

All john 17:3 says is those who have eternal like know god, which is true, they not only have been born of god, they have been given Gods spirit,
What you are locking out of your understanding is that salvation and the kingdom are eternal. You have yet to be tried to see if you're going to endure to the end in your believing and possess forever the eternal kingdom and salvation of God.

If you are trusting Christ today you possess the life that is eternal today. What is in question is if you are going to keep believing and continue to possess the life that is eternal.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
If I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying that the Holy Spirit is there when you believe, but checks out if you have doubts?
No.
Doubt is not unbelief.


For a moment or more have unbelief?
You will eventually lose the promise of the Spirit if you stop believing/trusting in Christ. That is what Paul told the Galatians. But this is after you refuse all attempts by God to bring you back to trust in Christ.


No.
While you are still a believer he does not vacate his temple when you sin. Only hardened, unrepentant unbelief will result in God leaving his temple.


Does He break the seal to depart and then reseal after you believe again?
No. Once he leaves, you are not allowed to repent and come back to salvation. You only get one chance to possess the Holy Spirit in salvation.



It sounds like you are saying HE will remove His Spirit and take back from you the gift of faith HE GAVE YOU.
The Spirit is not a birthday gift. His presence is a gift conditioned on believing and trusting in Christ. Stop trusting in Christ and you no longer satisfy the necessary condition for being an heir of the promise of the Spirit. This is what he told the Galatians. He told them they received the promise of the Spirit by faith in Christ. Then he told them if they go back to the slavery of the law for justification and no longer have faith in Christ they will not be heirs of the promise. They will lose the promised Spirit:

"13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law... 14in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. " - Galatians 3:13-14

"how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? " - Galatians 4:9

"30But what does the Scripture say?
“CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN (the old covenant) AND HER SON (slaves to the old covenant),
FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.” - Galatians 4:30
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,171
4,524
113
No, silly. Jesus said believers who have had their whole body washed only need their feet washed, not their whole body.

The person who continues in the believing they started out in stays in the justification they received when they first believed. It would be the ex-believer whom God has turned over to their decision to not believe anymore that needs to be justified again. Problem is, God doesn't allow that. So come back, ex-believers reading this, while God is still allowing you to come back.


Well one thing I have learned from time on the BDF is the the legalist is blind to their own legalism and this legalism has many manifestations with different language, terms arguments etc., ........but it always comes down to the same thing I need to prove myself worthy to God by my effort.

You offer God the work of your own hands.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
Well one thing I have learned from time on the BDF is the the legalist is blind to their own legalism and this legalism has many manifestations with different language, terms arguments etc., ........but it always comes down to the same thing I need to prove myself worthy to God by my effort.

You offer God the work of your own hands.
UG.....having faith is not a work of the works gospel.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
53
48
DID JESUS STOP WORKING AFTER HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS (CHRIST’S FINISHED WORK ON THE CROSS)?


WHAT WORK WAS FINISHED ON THE CROSS?


DID CHRIST FINISH HIS WORKS OF SALVATION BY DYING ON THE CROSS?


John 5:17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.”


...the reason the son of man appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. (1 john 3:8)




John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.


Luke 24:44-49 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”




IS SALVATION “VOID OF WORKS” OR “ NOT BY WORKS (OF OURSELVES)?


ARE SERVANTS CONSIDERED WORKERS?


ARE PREACHERS,TEACHERS, EVANGELISTS, PASTORS, MINISTERS, ADMINISTRATORS ETC. CONSIDERED SERVANTS AND WORKERS OF GOD?

WHAT IF THEY ONLY HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS, THEN LOOK DOWN ON THE OTHER PARTS OF THE BODY IN HYPOCRISY AS IF THEY'RE THE ONLY LEGITIMATE PART OF IT? WILL THAT FAITH SAVE THEM?( 1 corinthians chapter 12)


WE ARE GOD’S FELLOW WORKERS(1 cor 3:9)

SENT OUT TO HARVEST WHAT WE HAVE NOT WORKED FOR...THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE.


Luke 10:2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.


John 4:34-38 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. EVEN NOW the reaper draws his wages, EVEN NOW HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ I SENT YOU TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”


ARE THERE WORKS NEEDED TO BE DONE FOR SALVATION?


WE ARE TO SERVE IN THE WORKS OF THE GOSPEL WHICH IS THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.


1 Thessalonians 3:2,5 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and GOD’S FELLOW WORKER in SPREADING THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith, For this reason, when I could stand it no longer, I sent to find out about your faith. I was afraid that in some way the tempter might have tempted you and our efforts might have been USELESS.


Philippians 2:22 But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has SERVED WITH ME in the WORK OF THE GOSPEL.


Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,


John 7:18 HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN does so to gain honor for himself, but HE WHO WORKS FOR THE HONOR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A MAN OF TRUTH; there is nothing false about him.


John 9:4-5 As long as it is day, “WE” MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM WHO SENT ME. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”


1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.


BUT WE ARE NOT WORKING FOR OUR OWN SALVATION BUT FOR THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHOM HE IS THE SAVIOR (eph 5:23),

WHERE HE PUTS THOSE THAT ARE BEING SAVED AND ARE MADE PARTS OF HIS BODY FOR WORKS OF SERVICE.


Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, TO PREPARE GOD’S PEOPLE FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.


1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.


Romans 12:4-8 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.


1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.


THE TRUE MESSAGE OF THE CROSS IS SELFLESS LOVE.


GOD GAVE US HIS ONLY SON.

JESUS GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US.

WE OUGHT TO LAY DOWN OUR LIVES FOR OUR BROTHERS.


1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.


Philippians 2:4 Each of you should look not only to your OWN INTERESTS, but also to the interests of OTHERS.


Philippians 2:21 For everyone looks out for HIS OWN INTERESTS, not those of Jesus Christ.


Colossians 3:12-17 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.


Galatians 6:2,10 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.


Matthew 16:24-28 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, HE MUST DENY HIMSELFand take up his cross and follow me. For WHOEVER WANTS TO SAVE HIS LIFE WILL LOSE IT, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”


2 Timothy 2:14-19 A Workman Approved by God Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against QUARRELING ABOUT WORDS; it is of no value, and ONLY RUINS THOSE WHO LISTEN. Do your best to present yourself to God as one APPROVED, a WORKMAN who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because THOSE WHO INDULGE IN IT WILL BECOME MORE AND MORE UNGODLY. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have WANDERED AWAY FROM THE TRUTH. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and THEY DESTROY THE FAITH OF SOME. Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord MUST TURN AWAY FROM WICKEDNESS.”
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,171
4,524
113
Yes, indeed it is clear that the "gift of God is eternal life" (Rom. 6:23). The Bible says so! When we believe in Christ, we receive that gift! No argument with that - Amen, praise the Lord!

What is eternal life? John says (John 17:2) "and this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." That is real living! - to know Jesus Christ - that is eternal life!

To make "eternal life" primarily into "living forever" devalues the concept. Even unbelievers will "live forever" in hell fire -- but they do not have "eternal life". This relationship with Christ (life!) will never be taken from the one who hears and follows the Master. He will have it forever and will know and experience in deeper and deeper ways what really knowing Jesus is - in heaven and for all eternity.

All this and more are the wonderful truths for the believer who has been justified by the Lamb of God!

But where do you get that "justification is permanent and irrevocable"? Romans 11:29 does not say that! If you try to say it says that the "gifts" of God cannot be changed and the "gift" of eternal life (Rom. 6;23) therefore cannot be changed, then you will have to let others string together words from different verses to make their own points.

Romans 8:30: a beautiful verse with wonderful deep truths for the Christian! But it does not say that justification is eternal?! To make that verse say that "justification is eternal" you have to bring in your own preconceived theology and force it into the verse.

As I asked earlier: Where is the verse that clearly says that once a person has been justified (born again) that this justification is eternal and irrevocable?

Let me put it this way, eternal life is a quality of relationship with God (John 17:3), and is an end in itself. We are partakers of His divine essence/nature. 2 Peter 1:4. It will never be taken away because of what He promised not by what we do.

Justification cannot be revoked is obvious.

The debt is paid and we are declared innocent free from the debt (justified). The end!

It is only because you do not accept that an innocent person IS innocent that you look for more. It is like denying reality.


Romans 11:29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.
ametamelétos: not repented of
Original Word: ἀμεταμέλητος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: ametamelétos
Phonetic Spelling: (am-et-am-el'-ay-tos)
Short Definition: not to be repented of
Definition: not to be repented of, about which no change of mind can take place, not affected by change of mind.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
In your world it is, it (believing) is your effort to secure salvation. That is a work.
Not according to Paul:

"4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness"-Romans 4:4-5

As we can plainly see, believing is NOT included in the works that can not justify.
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,805
473
83
It appears to me you believe that if a born again believer sins and then dies before he or she confesses his or her sin, that person is cast into the lake of fire.

How old of a born again believer are you referring to. 1 Day Old in the Lord or 40 years old in the Lord.


A person on there death bed who repents and is born again, who dies the next day is different than someone who has been born again for years.


The general answer is yes, if a born again Christian dies in their sins they will go to hell.



He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


Again



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


again



Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


  • those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.



Do you understand that phrase “will not inherit the kingdom of God”?



JPT
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
8,171
4,524
113
Not according to Paul:

"4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness"-Romans 4:4-5

As we can plainly see, believing is NOT included in the works that can not justify.
Your believing is a work/effort because it is the grounds for salvation not the instrument/vehicle.
 
Oct 31, 2015
1,805
473
83
We are fully forgiven if we are in Christ. We must admit we are a sinner to be accepted in the first place.
I don’t find any of what you are saying in the scriptures.


Those who obey the Gospel (repent) are born again, in which their sins they have committed are forgiven.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


After that point, if a person sins, they must confess their sin to be forgiven.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9




JPT
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
53
48
IT’S A SHAMEFUL THING TO NOTICE AND WATCH THESE OSAS PASTORS AND CHURCH LEADERS WHO CLAIM AND DECLARE THAT “FAITH ALONE” SAVES AND IT IS “NOT BY WÒRKS” OF RIGHTEOUSNESS AND OBEDIENCE, WHILE ON THE OTHER HAND COLLECTS TITHES FROM THEIR MEMBERS SAYING THAT IF THEY WOULD NOT GIVE TITHES, THEY ARE ROBBING GOD.


19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame.


..THAT TITHE-GIVING IS A TEST OF FAITH AND THAT GOD WILL BLESS THEM ABUNDANTLY BECAUSE WHAT THEY GIVE WILL COME BACK TO THEM IN GOOD MEASURE AND RUNNING OVER.(luke 6:38)


THAT’S HOW THESE VIPERS IN THEIR GREED AND HYPOCRISY DECEIVE THEIR PREYS(UNKNOWING VICTIMS)


THEY THINK THEY CAN BRIBE GOD.


33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”
35 “Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay them?”
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.


THESE VIPERS WILL STILL BE SAVED ACCORDING TO THE OSAS DOCTRINE…


...WHICH IS CONTRARY TO WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES.


11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or GREEDY, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.


9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the GREEDY nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.


5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or GREEDY person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.

3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness?4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
53
48
OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)



SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)



OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:



Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.



JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.



THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.



JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)



WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?



WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)



IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?



JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.



Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.



Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?



GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )



Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?



John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.



2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.



DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)



NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?



Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.



MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.



ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?



DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?



Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.



James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..

"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,678
2,425
113
OSAS AND FAS ARE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES THAT PROMOTES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD AND REJECTS AND NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS. (mark 7:6-13, Isaiah 5:20-24)



SO DO NOT LET ANYONE DECEIVE YOU...FOR THE WRATH OF GOD COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT.(Ephesians 5:6)



OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS THE SOURCE OF ETERNAL LIFE FOR THOSE WHO OBEY HIM (Hebrews 5:8-9) SAID:



Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have RECEIVED and HEARD ; OBEY IT and REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.



JESUS HAVE NOT FOUND THEIR DEEDS "COMPLETE" IN THE EYES OF GOD.



THEN HE TOLD THEM TO "OBEY" WHAT THEY RECEIVED AND HEARD AND TO REPENT.



JESUS WAS SPEAKING HERE TO ONE OF THE SEVEN CHURCHES AND WE KNOW THAT THE "CHURCH" IS THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE. (eph 5:23)



WHY WILL HE SAY THAT THEIR DEEDS ARE NOT COMPLETE IF WORKS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR SALVATION AND THAT "FAITH ALONE" SAVES?



WHY WOULD JESUS COMMAND THEM TO OBEY AND REPENT IF IT
IS NO LONGER NECESSARY SINCE THEY ARE SAVED ETERNALLY? (OSAS)



IS JESUS IGNORANT OF THIS DOCTRINE OR IS IT CONTRARY TO HIS TEACHINGS AND COMMANDS AND THEREFORE ARE JUST FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES GOD'S WORDS?



JESUS AND HIS FATHER REQUIRE SOME WORKS TO BE COMPLETED AND ASKED FOR OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE.



Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous REQUIREMENTS of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.



Malachi 3:14 “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty?



GOD REQUIRES OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE IN OUR PART OTHERWISE HIS WRATH WILL COME ON THOSE WHO ARE "DISOBEDIENT".(eph 5:6 )



Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?



John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.



2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.



DO NOT BE DECEIVED... GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED...WE REAP WHAT WE SOW...(Galatians 6:7-10)



NOW IF FAITH ALONE SAVES AND ONCE SAVED, YOU ARE ALWAYS SAVED, DOES THIS PASSAGE BELOW CONTRADICT THESE FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINE OR DO YOU REJECT IT OR TWIST IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE THAT WOULD FIT YOUR DOCTRINE?



Matthew 24:9-14 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time MANY WILL TURN AWAY FROM THE FAITH and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, THE LOVE OF MOST WILL GROW COLD, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM TO THE END WILL BE SAVED . And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.



MANY WHO HAS FAITH WILL TURN AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.



ARE THEY STILL SAVED AFTER TURNING AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH(ALONE)?



DO YOU MOCK GOD AND REJECT THESE VERSES BELOW?



Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature WILL REAP DESTRUCTION; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit WILL REAP ETERNAL LIFE. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.



James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD..

"LET GOD BE TRUE..." (Romans 3:3-4)
works salvationism is a fake man- made doctrine...…...

while you just rant and quote out of context Scripture, which is just noise, I give you the whole letter from Paul to Titus. the most clear Scripture in all of the Bible that works do not save, we are saved by grace.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
53
48
works salvationism is a fake man- made doctrine...…...

while you just rant and quote out of context Scripture, which is just noise, I give you the whole letter from Paul to Titus. the most clear Scripture in all of the Bible that works do not save, we are saved by grace.
works salvationism is a fake man- made doctrine...…...

while you just rant and quote out of context Scripture, which is just noise, I give you the whole letter from Paul to Titus. the most clear Scripture in all of the Bible that works do not save, we are saved by grace.
Titus 3:5 He saved us not by works of righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration, and by the renewing of the Holy Ghost,


THE RIHTEOUSNEßS OF THE JEWS WAS THROUGH THE LAW.


Deuteronomy 6:24-25 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, THAT WILL BE OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.”


THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRISTIANS (NEW CREATION/MAN) IS THROUGH FAITH.


Romans 9:30-32 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, A RIGHTEOUSNESS THAT IS BY FAITH; but ISRAEL, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it NOT BY FAITH but as if it were by works. THEY stumbled over the “stumbling stone.”


IF YOU ARE A JEW WHOSE RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH THE LAW ….IT IS "NOT BY WORKS".(ephesians 2:8-deuteronomy 6:24-25)

WHETHER YOU'RE A GENTILE OR A JEW, IF YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IS THROUGH FAITH , YOU ARE;

..God's workmanship created in
Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS which He has PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO . ( ephesians 2:10)



“NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAD DONE" REFERS TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE JEWS WHICH WAS THROUGH THE LAW. (titus 3:5, eph 2:8-9)


PAUL’S QUESTION IS:


Romans 3:31 Do we, then, NULLIFY the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


HE ALSO SAID,


Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith NULLIFY God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”


GOD PUTS AND WRITES THE LAW IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS.


Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.


Hebrews 10:16 “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.”


...NOT JUST TO THE JEWS WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH BUT ALSO TO THOSE WHO WERE CIRCUMCISED IN THE HEART.


Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is CIRCUMCISION OF THE HEART, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.


AND CHRISTIANS ARE ABLE TO FULFILL AND UPHOLD THE LAW IN THEIR HEARTS AND MINDS BECAUSE OF THE LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO THEIR HEARTS.


Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because GOD HAS POURED OUT HIS LOVE INTO OUR HEARTS by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.


AND THEREFORE, “LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.”(romans 13:10)


galatians 6

2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.


1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.


1 John 5:2-3 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,


2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE; THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.


Romans 10:9-10 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your HEART that you BELIEVE and are JUSTIFIED, and it is with your MOUTH that you CONFESS and are SAVED.


1 John 3:18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but WITH ACTIONS AND IN TRUTH.


Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be FULLY MET IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.


John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND.”


Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?


26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.


17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18how that they told you THERE SHOULD BE MOCKERS IN THE LAST TIME, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, HAVING NOT THE SPIRIT.


15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; but IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being ABOMINABLE, and DISOBEDIENT, and unto every good work REPROBATE.


13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, BE SOBER, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 AS OBEDIENT CHILDREN, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 but as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 because it is written, BE YE HOLY; FOR I AM HOLY.


OBEDIENCE LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH LEADS TO HOLINESS AND THE RESULT IS ETERNAL LIFE. (romans 6:16-23)