OSAS supporters, explain these, if you will please.

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crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Perfect scripture to show the false teachings of Paul and his agenda to deceive.

Christians either follow Jesus, who did not found Christianity, or they follow Paul, who manufactured what came to be called Christianity but was actually Paulianity. Those believers are Pauline. Not Christian. Jesus wasn't Christian. God isn't Christian. "They" were first called Christian in Antioch. This was long after Jesus had departed back to the Father.

Jesus warned against Paul. Paul fulfilled the warning Jesus made about him and others like him prior to returning to the father.
To follow Paul is to call Jesus a liar. It's simple as that.
Christians hold to the Scriptures esp the NT which half comprises Paul's letters.
By denying Paul, you're simply a heretic posing as a Christian.
 
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Christians hold to the Scriptures esp the NT which half comprises Paul's letters.
By denying Paul, you're simply a heretic posing as a Christian.
That's a personal attack. God forgive you. Especially when Paul was the admitted Pharisee, whom Jesus referred to as Vipers, and a Roman citizen. Paul was the heretic. In his own words. Which contradicted Jesus, whom he never knew while Christ was here in his earthly ministry.

Did Jesus compile the new testament? By denying Jesus you're not entitled to judge me in the least.

Edited to add this for the sake of all who may be bullied by those who do not study scripture. But simply read and still do not understand.
Paul's Contradictions of Jesus Words
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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That's a personal attack. God forgive you. Especially when Paul was the admitted Pharisee, whom Jesus referred to as Vipers, and a Roman citizen. Paul was the heretic. In his own words. Which contradicted Jesus, whom he never knew while Christ was here in his earthly ministry.

Did Jesus compile the new testament? By denying Jesus you're not entitled to judge me in the least.

Edited to add this for the sake of all who may be bullied by those who do not study scripture. But simply read and still do not understand.
Paul's Contradictions of Jesus Words
My personal attack needs no forgiveness as it is true. Your personal attack against Paul is what needs repenting of.
 
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Do we follow Jesus?
Or do we follow Paul?

[h=3](Jesus words here) The Abomination of Desolation[/h][SUP]Matthew 24:15 [/SUP]“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), [SUP]16 [/SUP]then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, [SUP]18 [/SUP]and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! [SUP]20 [/SUP]Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. [SUP]25 [/SUP]See, I have told you beforehand.




Paul's words that fulfill Jesus' warning:



[h=1]Acts 9:1-31[/h]And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, [SUP]2 [/SUP]And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.....2 Corinthians 12:12

[SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
2 Corinthians 12:12
Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds




Jesus said:

[h=3]1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.[/h]

[h=1]Revelation 2:2I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.[/h]
Deuteronomy 13 forewarned of false prophets and teachers such as Paul. And Paul fulfilled those particulars in his attesting to those things as evidence of his appointment as apostle. A proclamation he made at least 22 times in scripture. And a title that was afforded him by others only twice. Most of Paul's doctrine is delivered in first person. "I, me, myself," .
 
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My personal attack needs no forgiveness as it is true. Your personal attack against Paul is what needs repenting of.
God forgive you that you call Christ a liar.
May he have mercy upon your soul. I shall set your personal attack sins to ignore now. It is tragedy that you imagine quantity supersedes quality. Paul does not save. May you find Christ in future.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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God forgive you that you call Christ a liar.
May he have mercy upon your soul. I shall set your personal attack sins to ignore now. It is tragedy that you imagine quantity supersedes quality. Paul does not save. May you find Christ in future.
The least you can do is put 'non Christian' in your profile at least there would be no pretending.
 
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waterlily

Guest
1 Timothy 2:3-6New International Version (NIV)[SUP]3 [/SUP]This is good, and pleases God our Savior, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, [SUP]6 [/SUP]who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
 

crossnote

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Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he (Paul) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Platy,
Look it up and believe the words of Jesus about Paul.
 
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waterlily

Guest
1 Timothy 1:15-20New International Version (NIV)[SUP]15 [/SUP]Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
 

iwant2serve

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Apr 12, 2009
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Many who hold to OSAS believe that anything else is of works based salvation. Yet the Bible is clear that salvation cannot exclude works. as James says I will show you my faith by my works. Jesus himself says we must endure until the end, Paul says the race is not given to the swift of strong but the one who endures to the end. So its not about works at all its about contued belief in Jesus. Stop believing and following you will not make it.

2 Peter 2:20-22
[SUP]20 [/SUP]If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. [SUP]21 [/SUP]It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”[SUP][a][/SUP] and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”
Hebrews 6:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they fall away,[SUP][a][/SUP] to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Hebrews 10:26-28
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Romans 11:22
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,[SUP][a][/SUP] if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
 
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Water baptism is the new birth.

Jn 3:5-------spirit+++++born of water>>>>>in the kingdom/saved
1Cor12:13--spirit++++++baptized>>>>>>>in the body/saved
Spirit baptism is the new birth.
Man has no sin nature where he is only able to choose to sin. As God shows in Gen 4:7 man has the ability to choose to do well just as he can choose to not do well.
If that is the case then why does scripture say "There is none good, no not one." (Ps. 14:1,3; Ps. 53:1,3; Matt. 19:17; Mk. 10:18; Rom. 3:12) Man cannot attain to be 'good' without the Spirit of God dwelling in him. Why is the comparison set as in the old man/new man; the flesh and the spirit?
Paul is addressing the group, the church, verse 1 the group Saints which are in Christ. No individual can be in Christ apart from the group.
Paul is addressing the group, i.e. the CHURCH, the body of Christ in which we are "members in particular". Each member make up the CHURCH - without the each member there would not be a 'body' or a 'church'.
My point is condemnation is CONDITIONAL therefore making salvation CONDITIONAL. To be saved one must be CONDITIONALLY a believer in Christ. If one casts aside his faith he is no longer conditionally in Christ and can then be condemned, Rom 8:1.
Condemnation is conditional upon whether one believes and receives the faith of Jesus Christ or not. If one does not believe in the only begotten Son of God then that person is condemned, i.e. he doesn't have the faith of Jesus Christ - If one believes in the only begotten Son of God then that person has everlasting life and has the faith of Jesus Christ.
Rev 2:10 is about salvation, the crown of life for one cannot become UNfaithful yet still be saved.
Once a person is born again of God's Spirit; he belongs to God. Can one loose rewards? definitely Are 'crowns' considered rewards for works done? Yes . . . . Can one become 'unborn'? NO God uses the word 'born' for a reason.
Jude is warning his readers about falling into apostasy therefore the command to keep themselves in the love of God. Again, if being lost/falling into apostasy were impossible then none of what Jude says makes any sense.
Jude is warning those 'who have not the Spirit' to be born again of the Spirit - to not remain as the ungodly (v15). They are separated because they 'have not the Spirit' (v19) You are saying that God gives us his gift of Holy Spirit and then takes it away - THAT IS NOT TRUE -
God is ABLE to keep those that are faithful to Him from stumbling but God does not UNCONDITIONALLY GUARANTEE this to those that quit obeying Him.
1 Pet 1:5 "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

Kept by God through faith. If one becomes unfaithful, he is no longer kept by God. Again, there are two sides to salvation:
1) man's faithfulness to God
2) God's faithfulness to man.

No verse says God is faithful in saving those that turn their back on Him in faithlessness. Both sides must occur yet Eternal Securists only want to look at verses that speak of God's faithfulness to man whilr not looking at verses that show man must be faithful to God.
God is faithful to man - faithful to keep his promises (Lam 3:23; Ps. 89:33). Our salvation is based on faith - once that 'faith' is committed on our part - God is faithful - even when we fall - God is faithful. If that is not true then Christ died in vain because it is HIS actions that purchased us - Christ's actions that justified us - Christ's actions that made us righteous, etc. One side to the equation - the work of Jesus Christ. We hear the word of God we receive faith - we confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead - we are born again of God's Spirit - God is not an Indian giver - that birth is forever - we are sealed with that 'birth' by the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us until the day of redemption - to take away any of that would make God a liar - one who does not live up to his promises. I didn't make an agreement with God to the effect of - "I will be perfect if you will give me your Holy Spirit" then I failed and HE took it away - that was not the agreement nor condition. The condition is for me to believe in his only begotten Son = HE sent his Son to die for me so that I could be born again of the Spirit AND have everlasting life. You are saying that God is not to be depended upon for his promises!
Israel was in a saved, covenant relationship with God, God's elect, God's chosen yet those that disobeyed through unbelief became lost.

Psalms 51:11
Israel will still receive the promises that God intended for them. Israel was not 'born again' of the Spirit. The new birth was not available until Jesus Christ ascended. So yes, they could loose the Spirit for the Spirit only dwelled upon certain believers in the OT.
Rebelling angels became apostates falling from heaven, a saved state.

"they corrupt themselves" v10
"separate themselves" v19

They were not always corrupt, always separated from God/the church but became that way by choice. How could they corrupt themselves and be separated from God if they were ALWAYS corrupt and always separated from God?
They were corrupt - they were separated because they denied God and Jesus Christ v4) there are certain men crept in unawares - saved or unsaved? UNGODLY men DENYING THE ONLY LORD GOD, AND OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST v7) Sodom and Gomorrha going after strange flesh - idolatry 15) ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed v19) How are they separate? How did they separate themselves? By not believing in the only begotten Son of God, Jesus Christ and therefore not being born again of the Spirit - 'having not the Spirit'.
Infants are born in a innocent, saved state but as they mature learning right from wrong they corrupt themselves, separating themselves from God becoming lost.
Infants and children are sanctified by their believing parents - 1 Co. 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the [believing] wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the [believing] husband; else ere your children unclean; but now are they holy.
As Paul points out in Eph 1, one who is sealed can grieve the HS as those did whom Jude speaks about. Therefore again the admonition/command for them to keep themselves in the love of God rather than corrupting themselves, separating themselves from God.
Eph. 4:30 - And grieve not the Holy Spirit - lypeo - (lupeo) - 1) to make sorrowful 2) to affect with sadness, cause grief, to throw into sorrow 3) to grieve, offend 4) to make uneasy
Does it make God sorrowful and sad for his kids doing things not pleasing to him? Does it make me sorrowful and sad when my children do something that is not pleasing to me? Of course it does - but does God disown us because of that? Do we disown our children because they do not behave perfectly all the time? Anyway we couldn't disown them to the point they were never ours - born - nor does God.

NOPE! . . . . HIS GRACE DOES MUCH MORE ABOUND!!!!!
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Jude is warning those 'who have not the Spirit' to be born again of the Spirit - to not remain as the ungodly (v15). They are separated because they 'have not the Spirit' (v19) You are saying that God gives us his gift of Holy Spirit and then takes it away - THAT IS NOT TRUE -
Amen! In contrast to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ (Jude 1:1), these false teachers/prophets who have crept in unnoticed (vs. 4) are further described throughout the chapter as - marked out for condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ, defile the flesh, reject authority, revile angelic majesties, revile the things which they do not understand, and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed, have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves, clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam, wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever, ungodly sinners, grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts, speaking arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage, cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.

I see a connection between Matthew 15:13 and Jude 1:12.

In Matthew 15:13, Jesus said - Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be "uprooted."
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
To seabass, you are all WET, with your water baptism as the Spirit baptism. In John 3 "born of water is the our natural birth as Jesus interprets it "born of flesh"= "flesh" Which I interpret as SINFUL. And "born of the Spirit" ="spirit" Which I interpret as SPIRITUAL. The rest of the new Testament interprets "born of the water" as, born of the "WORD of GOD". "the incorruptable, Word of God" 1Pet.1:23 and "by the Word of truth" James1:18 and "with the washing of water with the word" Eph.5:26 Children are born lost and only the grace of God can and does save them, if they die before the age of reasoning / accountability. "by nature children of wrath" Eph.2:3 "the heart is deceitful" Jer. "out of the heart comes"sin. Mt. . God's Eternal Covenant of Grace is unconditional. Rom.8:29-30; But our salvation is conditioned upon, Repentance, Faith, and works. Lk.24:46-47, Jh.3:36, Heb.5:9. Love to all, Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

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To peacefulbeliever, I think you sell God short, if you say the elect of the Old T. were not "born of the Spirit". With out the new birth they could not be saved or "in Christ". If they didn't have the H.S. they could not be Christ's "Sheep" I think this is the mystery which was in the O.T. , but revealed to us in the N.T.. Please consider that the Church of Christ began in Genesis. There is only ONE body of Christ. Love to all, Hoffco
 
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To peacefulbeliever, I think you sell God short, if you say the elect of the Old T. were not "born of the Spirit". With out the new birth they could not be saved or "in Christ". If they didn't have the H.S. they could not be Christ's "Sheep" I think this is the mystery which was in the O.T. , but revealed to us in the N.T.. Please consider that the Church of Christ began in Genesis. There is only ONE body of Christ. Love to all, Hoffco
John 7:37-39 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.
 
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Infants and children are sanctified by their believing parents - 1 Co. 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the [believing] wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the [believing] husband; else ere your children unclean; but now are they holy.


[SUP]12 [/SUP]But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
 
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Originally Posted by peacefulbeliever
Spirit baptism is the new birth.
should we believe you of Jesus...
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jesus . . . . of course . . . .
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Water is never mentioned once in Romans. All indication is that this is baptism into Christ by His Spirit...

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. (Rom 6:3-10)

In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
(Col 2:11-12)
 
E

ELECT

Guest
1 Corinthians 10 King James Version (KJV)


10 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;


2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;


3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;


4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.


5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.