OSAS, the final answer

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#61
Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

as apposed to the licentious sinner, whose condemnation was determined beforehand. (never saved)




2 Peter 1:10-11
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Hey, if I have doubts of my election (which satan will use against us all the time) I better make sure it is real. and not just some fad I am going through.

Does not prove we can lose salvation though.


he did not say make sure you KEEP your salvation, he said make sure you HAVE IT.


Romans 2:7
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
and if you have pure faith in God and his promise, you will do this. Faith works, even patiently.

Faith without works is dead remember, It never SAVED ANYONE. thus this FALSE FAITH will not work.
 
Jul 6, 2015
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#62
Nice quote in the bolded print above, but very poor exegetics. If you studied Deuteronomy, you would know that this passage was to Israel as a nation. This was the Old Covenant, which was conditional to the obedience of the Israelites.

You cannot pull it out of context and make it mean that New Covenant believers have a choice.

In fact, all of the verses you have chosen are out of context and from the Old Covenant.

My suggestion is that you need to go back and read all of those books, to see what God was talking about. He was talking about his people, which at that time were the children of Israel, and you cannot apply that to individual. Israel as a PEOPLE were disobedient to the commands of God.

My next suggestion is that you read the New Testament to see how God saves people in the New Testament, we do not save ourselves by our choices, decisions or works. God saves us by his grace as he has called us and justified, sanctified and will glorify us.

"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1

"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Romans 8:29-30
Paul makes quite clear the true meaning of Israel entering the promised land, he even utilizes it as an example.

[Heb 4:3 NKJV] For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
[Heb 4:4 NKJV] For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh [day] in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works";
[Heb 4:5 NKJV] and again in this [place]: "They shall not enter My rest."
[Heb 4:6 NKJV] Since therefore it remains that some [must] enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
[Heb 4:7 NKJV] again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts."
[Heb 4:8 NKJV] For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
[Heb 4:9 NKJV] There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
[Heb 4:10 NKJV] For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God [did] from His.
[Heb 4:11 NKJV] Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

[Heb 11:13 NKJV] These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced [them] and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
[Heb 11:14 NKJV] For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland.
[Heb 11:16 NKJV] But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly [country]. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.
[Heb 11:38 NKJV] of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, [in] dens and caves of the earth.
[Heb 11:39 NKJV] And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,
[Eph 4:4 NKJV] [There is] one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
[Act 26:6 NKJV] "And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made by God to our fathers.
[Act 26:7 NKJV] "To this [promise] our twelve tribes, earnestly serving [God] night and day, hope to attain. For this hope's sake, King Agrippa, I am accused by the Jews.

[Heb 11:40 NKJV] God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

[Heb 12:22 NKJV] But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
[Heb 12:23 NKJV] to the general assembly and church of the firstborn [who are] registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,

The bible is the context, and Israel are God's children. If what you say is true, then who are the 'wicked' spoken of in Psalm 37 as well as Isaiah 26:10?
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#63
Yes, man must make the choice while alive...no choice can be made when dead!

But, as I have shown from Revelation, before the judgment all dead will be resurrected. Thus, since they will be alive, it follows they will have a choice to make. Consider again the verse from Isaiah:

[Isa 26:10 NKJV] Let grace be shown to the wicked, [Yet] he will not learn righteousness; In the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly, And will not behold the majesty of the LORD.

As you say, God will not predetermine. Therefore, how can He tell if a wicked person will deal unjustly in the land of uprightness? Would he not need to first put them into the land of uprightness to determine whether they will behold his majesty?

I agree that all the dead, those that done both good and evil (Jn 5:29) but they have no choice to make for they will be judged by the works they did in this life.....Heb 9:27 appointed unto men once to die then judgment..no choice left for anyone to make when judgment day arrives.

Isa 26:9 God's judgments-punishments in the earth are needed to teach/warn men of God's righteousness.
Isa 26:10 judgment were used to bring wicked might be brought to righteousness, yet the wicked will not learn righteousness. 'In the land of uprightness" means when the wicked is surrounded by righteous people, the wicked still will go after unrighteousness.

"Land of uprightness" refers to those people that do righteousness, who walk on "level ground" Psa 143;10. Some think land of uprightness refers to the land of Judea, Canaan where God's law and statutes were followed by righteous men or it could be using figurative language to describe a general area where men live in accordance to God's law.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#64
well I think the twisting, indeed the godless cheating, is by someone who puts the question and then gives a totally false answer. Jesus answer was 'this is the work of God that you believe on Him Whom He has sent. ' In other words it was a play on ideas. He is saying, 'You do not need to think of works at this time think of the more important need to believe in Me. Works can follow.'

But you take another verse right out of context, words spoken to those who had already believed, and PRETEND IT IS THE ANSWER OF JESUS. I consider that despicable. Certainly enough on your basis to send you to Hell.

1 Jn 3:10 "...whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God...." GOTCHA LOL

In Jn 6:237 Jesus already said to LABOUR for the meat that endures unto everlasting life...no labour = no everlasting life.


Question:
What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Answer:
This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Where in all of this did Jesus say "no works" are needed to obtain everlasting life or told anyone to do no works unto everlasting life or told any one to believe only unto everlasting life?
 
Jul 6, 2015
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#65
I agree that all the dead, those that done both good and evil (Jn 5:29) but they have no choice to make for they will be judged by the works they did in this life.....Heb 9:27 appointed unto men once to die then judgment..no choice left for anyone to make when judgment day arrives.

Isa 26:9 God's judgments-punishments in the earth are needed to teach/warn men of God's righteousness.
Isa 26:10 judgment were used to bring wicked might be brought to righteousness, yet the wicked will not learn righteousness. 'In the land of uprightness" means when the wicked is surrounded by righteous people, the wicked still will go after unrighteousness.

"Land of uprightness" refers to those people that do righteousness, who walk on "level ground" Psa 143;10. Some think land of uprightness refers to the land of Judea, Canaan where God's law and statutes were followed by righteous men or it could be using figurative language to describe a general area where men live in accordance to God's law.
Yes, however, those 'lands of uprightness' fell short,
[Heb 4:8 NKJV] For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
[Heb 12:22 NKJV] But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
[Heb 12:23 NKJV] to the general assembly and church of the firstborn [who are] registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Satan is called the god of this world. Until he is cast into the lake of fire, nowhere in this world will be free of deception. Even when Jesus reigns on earth for 1,000 years, Satan will deceive the nations yet again. Until deception is eliminated, none have lived in the land of uprightness as you describe.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#66
You want to skip salvation by grace and go right to sanctification.

The caterpillar cannot become a butterfly save it go through the transformation and rebirth God intends for it to do.

Dead in trespasses and sin then made alive in Christ. Sanctified until finally glorified together with the Lord. God's salvation is a continuous action. Saved from past sin. present sin and future sin all in a continuous action by God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Originally Posted by SeaBass

Rom 6:16 obedience unto righteousness
James 2:24 justified by works
Acts 10:35 worketh righteousness accepted with God
Heb 5:9 Christ saves those that obey Him


Righteousness, justified, accepted with God, saves = salvation.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
#67

as apposed to the licentious sinner, whose condemnation was determined beforehand. (never saved)






Hey, if I have doubts of my election (which satan will use against us all the time) I better make sure it is real. and not just some fad I am going through.

Does not prove we can lose salvation though.


he did not say make sure you KEEP your salvation, he said make sure you HAVE IT.




and if you have pure faith in God and his promise, you will do this. Faith works, even patiently.

Faith without works is dead remember, It never SAVED ANYONE. thus this FALSE FAITH will not work.

Well lets look at those scriptures again and cross reference them;

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.


By keeping ourselves in the faith we are looking for receiving eternal life, not that we already have it, and a cross reference from Apostle Paul would be;


Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.




You will only have the Lords blood continue to cover you giving you remission of your sins if you continue in the faith, and are not removed from the hope of receiving salvation by returning to a sinful lifestyle.


Next;

2 Peter 1:10-11
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


What is it that Peter said we need to do in order to have an entrance into the everlasting kingdom / receive eternal life ???

This is what he said;

[h=1]2 Peter 1:5-9[/h]5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.


Then finally we have Romans 2:7 that works with the first one of Jude 1:21, as both say we look/seek for salvation through Christ by our faith in Him. Not that we already have it !!!



 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#68
Your theological bias prevents you from understanding the plain language of Jesus calling belief a work.
Jesus never calls belief a work. He uses a play on words. But understanding that requires intelligence. I can see your problem.

Jesus plainly, clearly unambiguously said to LABOUR for the meat that endures unto everlasting the life.
As you usually do you misrepresent the Scriptures. What He said was DO NOT LABOUR for the meat that perishes (baked loaves', but for the meat that endures to eternal life'. The emphasis was on the labouring involved in obtaining bread. And the promise was not that by labouring they would obtain eternal life, but that those who were believers would, by labouring at a spiritual level, obtain eternal benefits. He was speaking to the believers in a crowd of believers and unbelievers.

Jesus settled the issue long ago that works are necessary if one desires everlasting life but those with theological bias want to argue what Jesus said, rewrite it, find a way to get rid of it.
So you can see that you are totally wrong. It says nothing about 'working for eternal life'. It says that those who are anticipating eternal life should behave in such a way as at earn rewards to enjoy during that eternal life. IT IS YOU WHO REWRITES IT.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

[/QUOTE

Some of the crowd, eager to obtain eternal benefits, and not fully understanding Him, then asked how they COULD do works pleasing to God.

]Jesus: This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Jesus, aware that they THOUGHT that they could achieve salvation by works, now changes tack. He says, 'stop thinking about working for salvation, and recognise that instead you must believe in Me.' He is no longer talking to believers, but to unbelievers. And He says, 'NOT WORKS but faith.'

Could they choose to believe? No. None of us can CHOOSE to believe. We believe when we are convinced by some kind of evidence. Thus Jesus is calling on them to respond to what they see Him to be. Those whom God had convinced about Him (whom God had given to Him), would believe. That was all that was needed. He then gives the detailed explanation in 6.35-44. 'Come to Me and believe in Me (v 35) -- and those who will believe are those who have been given to Me by the Father' (vv37-44).

So far from Jesus giving them a work to do, He gave God a work to do, to give them to Him, working belief within them..

Faith only preacher: do no work lest you try and earn salvation but believe only.
Yes that's what Jesus was saying.

Very revealing, eye opening in how those people's question of Jn 6:28 was answered by Christ Who gave them a work to do and the answer of a false faith only preacher would give.
He did not give them a work to do, He told them rather to believe because God was at work among them..

Keep trying. One day you may get it right. Just BELIEVE.
 
Jul 6, 2015
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#69
Guys...you're going to go in circles forever if you keep approaching it like this. The word 'Saved' is so loaded that you're never going to prove an answer until you accurately define it. Just trying to help =)
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#70
In Jn 6:237 Jesus already said to LABOUR for the meat that endures unto everlasting life...no labour = no everlasting life.
spoken to believers among them telling them how they could build up spiritual rewards which they could enjoy during their future eternal life. He does NOT tell them to labour FOR eternal life.


Question:
What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?


Now the unbelievers among them ask how they can get themselves benefits.

This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


Jesus tells them that their first responsibility is to believe in Him. It is only if they believe in Him that they will receive eternal life. After that they can think of doing works which will earn them rewards in Heaven.


Where in all of this did Jesus say "no works" are needed to obtain everlasting life or told anyone to do no works unto everlasting life or told any one to believe only unto everlasting life?
In the verse in RED. He says NOT WORKS, BUT FAITH.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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#71
Guys...you're going to go in circles forever if you keep approaching it like this. The word 'Saved' is so loaded that you're never going to prove an answer until you accurately define it. Just trying to help =)
LOL look back. It has ALL been explained. Seabass is a Dimbo.
 
Mar 12, 2014
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#72
Responsible for our own salvation? Show me the verse!

Accountable for our own salvation? Show me the verse!


Here are what 3 Biblical writers have to say about Jesus choosing us - John, Paul and Peter!


"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.)65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”" John 6:63-65


"And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Romans 8:28-30

"
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:
May grace and peace be multiplied to you." 1 Peter 1:1-2

in Mk 1:15 Jesus commanded those Jews to believe. Now if they do not obey this command and are lost, who failed at keeping the responsibility to believe and who is accountable for their not believing?

====================

Jn 6:63-65 who are the ones given by the Father to come to Christ? Ones God chooses unconditionally, randomly? No, the ones that have chosen to obey.

Verses 44,45 shows how God draws men " And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned, cometh unto me."

Men are taught, hear and learn God's word and thereby drawn. Those drawn "cometh unto me"

God draws, men come...men come of their own free will.

================


Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose.
Rom 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to beconformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Verse 28 is talking about a group called Christian those that love God (obey God Jn 14:15) and are called. All men are called but this refers to that group that answered the call.

"for" of v29 explains v 28 for whom whom refers to the group Christian and not any individual unconditionally apart from this group. God foreknew this GROUP predestinated the GROUP, foreknew this GROUP would be called justified and glorified. Therefore any person that chooses to become part of the GROUP called Christian then becomes part of the foreknown group (It can be seen from Eph 1:4,5 that God also foreknew that this GROUP would be "in Him(Christ) "holy and without blame" and be called sons. Nowhere in any of this does the bible say God foreknew certain individuals uncondtionally to be saved apart from the GROUP Christian.

=============

in 1 Pet 1:1,2 Peter is writing to Christians the GROUP and it was this GROUP that was "according to the foreknowledge of God". Before the world began God foreknew the GROUP Christian would be saved and did not foreknow unconditionally any individual to randomly be saved outside the group. God foreknows which individuals will choose to be in this GROUP but God never has predetemined for men which ones will be in or out of this GROUP called Christian...it is mans' choice to be in this foreknown GROUP or not.



POINTS TO NOTE:
1. Augustine, Martin Luther and John Calvin all held a doctrine of unconditional election, in which the choice is sovereign and in no way dependent upon anything in man. That is, before the foundation of the world, God chose who would be saved and who would be lost. This choice had nothing to do with the choices that such individuals would make. In addition, this two groups are fixed in precise number.

2. But the above theory contradicts many biblical truths:
A. The Scriptures teach that salvation is conditional (
Matthew 7:21; Acts 17:30; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9; Romans 2:6-11).
B. ‘All invitations, promises, warnings, threatenings and admonitions to faithfulness in the Word of God become meaningless and without significance.’ [Note: Peter, John and Jude, Guy N. Woods, p. 22]
C. It makes God a respector of persons (
Acts 10:34-35).
D. It makes God His own worst enemy, i.e. God wants all saved (
2 Peter 3:9), yet He has already limited the precise number whom are saved and those who can’t be saved. F. It makes many passages in this letter to follow completely meaningless, like 1:17 or 2:10. How could one predestined to salvation have never been one of God’s people??


The truth is that God calls everyone through the gospel (2 Thessalonians 2:14; Mark 16:15), this was God’s eternal plan (1 Peter 1:2). Those who accept the call become one of the chosen (Matthew 22:14; 1 Peter 2:7-9), those who reject this offer exclude themselves from being the chosen people (Romans 11:5;Romans 11:20; Romans 11:23). In addition, one can cease to be one of the elect due to their own unfaithfulness. Therefore Peter exhorts us to make this calling and election “sure” (2 Peter 1:10). Dunagan's Commentary


 
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Mar 12, 2014
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#73
Yes, however, those 'lands of uprightness' fell short,
[Heb 4:8 NKJV] For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
[Heb 12:22 NKJV] But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,
[Heb 12:23 NKJV] to the general assembly and church of the firstborn [who are] registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Satan is called the god of this world. Until he is cast into the lake of fire, nowhere in this world will be free of deception. Even when Jesus reigns on earth for 1,000 years, Satan will deceive the nations yet again. Until deception is eliminated, none have lived in the land of uprightness as you describe.

You are losing me here for I do not believe in the man made teaching of Premillennialism at all.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#75
Based on arguments made here on CC among these oh so many like threads, based on my own thread in which we broke down each individual argument, based on study, and based on experience, this is how it really works:


1. We are free to believe or disbelieve according to our own free will.

2. Righteousness/Salvation is based upon belief/faith.

3. Belief and faith are not acts of works.

4. We are not saved by acts of works.

5. Works are a reliable discerner of salvation status

6. Once His, God will never turn us away because of our works

7. Even when saved we retain our right to believe/disbelieve

8. By disbelief (apostasy) one can turn themselfs away from salvation

9. Disbelief is not an act of works

10. Salvation is not lost by works.

11. Salvation is lost by apostasy
what If they say they were never saved?
 
Jul 6, 2015
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#76
You are losing me here for I do not believe in the man made teaching of Premillennialism at all.
I don't know what Premillennialism is.

[Rev 20:5 NKJV] But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.

In the final resurrection, all of the dead will live. This is after Satan has been thrown into the lake of fire. My point is, this is the first time that anyone could be said to have been living in the 'land of uprightness'. In other words, a land without deception.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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#77
Good luck with that "final answer" thing. Several, including me, disagree.
I didn't actually think this would be the final answer. People continue to disagree with the facts all the time.
 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
#78
I didn't actually think this would be the final answer. People continue to disagree with the facts all the time.
Including you, based on your first post. Kind of the problem. Very few even know the facts, so disagreement is inevitable. Then, once the facts are in, most don't like them, so disagreement turns into argument.

I still have to admire your optimism. lol
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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#79
You posted it yourself:

Jesus said, it is the WORK OF GOD that WE BELIEVE in the one he sent.



WE BELIEVE, WE DO the work of believing.


Jn 6:28 "What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?"

They asked Jesus what shall WE DO, that WE WORK the works of God.

Jesus did not tell them do "no works else you try to earn your salvation" but Jesus answered their question by giving them a work to do the work of believing.


Believing is a work of God that God has given me to do and not mine own work. For one to do the work of believing to be saved is not my idea and it's not my work I invented, but it's God's idea and God's work He has given to man to do.
This is a point of much confusion. The scriptures say if we believe we will do good works. But the reverse isn't true - doing good works will not (necessarily) lead to belief.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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#80
Let me now annotate the OP with scriptures given by you good people:

*
1. We are free to believe or disbelieve according to our own free will.

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve

[Deu 30:15 NKJV] "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,
[Deu 30:19 NKJV] "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
*
2. Righteousness/Salvation is based upon belief/faith.
3. Belief and faith are not acts of works.

4. We are not saved by acts of works.

Romans 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. [SUP]“[/SUP]
4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works
13It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.
18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”[SUP]d[/SUP] 19Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It’s a gift of God and not of works, let any man should boast.

Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved”

"Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

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5. Works are a reliable discerner of salvation

James 2:
14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[SUP]d[/SUP] ? 21Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[SUP]e[/SUP] and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

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6. Once His, God will never turn us away because of our works

John 3:15-16 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 6:37-39 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise [never] cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

2 Corinthians 1:22 And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Philippians 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

1 John 5:10-13 Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.

Hebrews 7:24-25 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them..

2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Jude 24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Romans 8:29-30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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7. Even when saved we retain our right to believe/disbelieve

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve
[Deu 30:15 NKJV] "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,
[Deu 30:19 NKJV] "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

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8. By disbelief (apostasy) one can turn themselfs away from salvation

"keep yourselves in the love of God" Jude 1:21.

1 Jn 3:10 "...whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

2 Peter 1:10-11 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:22-23 In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister

2 Peter 1:5-9 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

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9. Disbelief is not an act of works

(See nos. 2/3/4 above).

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10. Salvation is not lost by works.


(See no. 6 above)

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11. Salvation is lost by disbelief

(See no. 8 above)