OSAS, the final answer

[eternally-gratefull]

Colossains 3:24

Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

if it is of grace, it is no longer works, otherwise Grace is no longer grace

4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

A wage is a reward.


Col 3:
3 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

The context of chapter 3 is plain, IF you are saved, do these things, and if ouo do. you will receive your reward.

But that still is not salvation. Because we are saved by Grace, not by works of righteousness we have done, but by Gods mercy.

But people want to work for it.. Have fun, And good luck.

Here is your requirement. THE LAW. Fulfill it and you can earn salvation.

 

[RickyZ]

What, no one is willing to wade thru the notated list, and see where scripture (provided, again, by you fine folks) backs up each point of the OP?

Or perhaps having been notated with scripture, none of you can argue the list?

*

One guy once posted "what part of eternal life don't people get?". It's really the same part that people don't get about "who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and have fallen away".


This is the part that so many don't get: Both of these statements are GOD'S ETERNAL WORD and as such BOTH OF THESE STATEMENTS MUST BE TRUE.

So, stop using one to prove the other a lie (because it's not, lest you call God a liar), and instead strive to understand how BOTH THESE STATEMENTS, SPOKEN BY GOD, CAN BE TRUE.

When you can understand how God can keep us eternally, and yet allow us the freedom to turn away, then you will understand the paradox of OSAS, and that the list I made is indeed the final answer... or at least as close as we're bound to get here.

 

[KennethC]

if it is of grace, it is no longer works, otherwise Grace is no longer grace

4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

A wage is a reward.


Col 3:
3If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. [SUP]4 [/SUP]When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

The context of chapter 3 is plain, IF you are saved, do these things, and if ouo do. you will receive your reward.

But that still is not salvation. Because we are saved by Grace, not by works of righteousness we have done, but by Gods mercy.

But people want to work for it.. Have fun, And good luck.

Here is your requirement. THE LAW. Fulfill it and you can earn salvation.

Verse 24 says "reward of the inheritance," and the inheritance is the kingdom of heaven a.k.a. salvation/eternal life....

 

[KennethC]

What, no one is willing to wade thru the notated list, and see where scripture (provided, again, by you fine folks) backs up each point of the OP?

Or perhaps having been notated with scripture, none of you can argue the list?

*

One guy once posted "what part of eternal life don't people get?". It's really the same part that people don't get about "who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and have fallen away".


This is the part that so many don't get: Both of these statements are GOD'S ETERNAL WORD and as such BOTH OF THESE STATEMENTS MUST BE TRUE.

So, stop using one to prove the other a lie (because it's not, lest you call God a liar), and instead strive to understand how BOTH THESE STATEMENTS, SPOKEN BY GOD, CAN BE TRUE.

When you can understand how God can keep us eternally, and yet allow us the freedom to turn away, then you will understand the paradox of OSAS, and that the list I made is indeed the final answer... or at least as close as we're bound to get here.

This would be right of what you said if people would actually look at them as both God's truth, but the eternal security and osas doctrines state falling away is impossible.

If you go back and read the teachings of Augustine who started the eternal security doctrine, he says falling away is impossible and so is Apostasy. Both of which the bible speaks on and shows can and does happen....

It is not a bible issue or a God's word issue, but is an issue with how those concepts are taught in those doctrines that causes the issues. For if they would teach that eternal security is true based on the one's who continues to keep the faith in the Lord and are never shaken in their faith then I would agree. But we can not place eternal security as applying to all because the bible expressly says many will fall away from the faith....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Verse 24 says "reward of the inheritance," and the inheritance is the kingdom of heaven a.k.a. salvation/eternal life....

No. it can't be

Eternal life is the gift of God. the wage of sin is death, the GIFT OF GOD IS eternal life.

The reward is what one earns.. Gold silver etc.

Paul says in eph 1 our inheritance (ETERNAL) was already given to us the moment we trusted Christ. So it can not be the same inhertiance spoken of here in galations. It speaks of two different things.

Eph 1:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, [SUP]4 [/SUP]just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, [SUP]5 [/SUP]having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace [SUP]8 [/SUP]which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, [SUP]9 [/SUP]having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, [SUP]10 [/SUP]that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both[SUP][a][/SUP] which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. [SUP]11[/SUP]In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, [SUP]12 [/SUP]that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who[SUP][b][/SUP] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Face it man You have to much I in the equation. there is no I in the gospel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This would be right of what you said if people would actually look at them as both God's truth, but the eternal security and osas doctrines state falling away is impossible.

If you go back and read the teachings of Augustine who started the eternal security doctrine, he says falling away is impossible and so is Apostasy. Both of which the bible speaks on and shows can and does happen....

It is not a bible issue or a God's word issue, but is an issue with how those concepts are taught in those doctrines that causes the issues. For if they would teach that eternal security is true based on the one's who continues to keep the faith in the Lord and are never shaken in their faith then I would agree. But we can not place eternal security as applying to all because the bible expressly says many will fall away from the faith....

it is impossible

because if it were possible to fall away then salvation would rest on us, and not on God, it would empower us, and not God. it would cause us the ability to boast, and take away from God, who should get all credit.

It is not possible to fall away, because no one who was truly born again, adopted as Gods children, and experienced what it is like to pass from death to life WOULD EVER RETURN TO HIS OWN VOMIT.

Only a dog will return to his vomit, because he never experienced what it was like to be something different than what he is, a dog.

 

[KennethC]

No. it can't be

Eternal life is the gift of God. the wage of sin is death, the GIFT OF GOD IS eternal life.

The reward is what one earns.. Gold silver etc.

Paul says in eph 1 our inheritance (ETERNAL) was already given to us the moment we trusted Christ. So it can not be the same inhertiance spoken of here in galations. It speaks of two different things.

Eph 1:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, [SUP]4 [/SUP]just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, [SUP]5 [/SUP]having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace [SUP]8 [/SUP]which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, [SUP]9 [/SUP]having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, [SUP]10 [/SUP]that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both[SUP][a][/SUP] which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. [SUP]11[/SUP]In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, [SUP]12 [/SUP]that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who[SUP][b][/SUP] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Face it man You have to much I in the equation. there is no I in the gospel.

Keep reading as Paul shows on down in verse 14 that we obtained that inheritance by trusting and obeying to follow the gospel teachings of Christ, and that this inheritance is once again obtained as a mental assurance of receiving it. For Paul shows in verse 14 that the actual possession of inheritance is not given tell the day of redemption.

Apostle Paul explains how this inheritance of eternal life is given to us, then in chapter 4 he goes into the warnings that if you do not turn from your sins and walk a new creation in the Spirit, but continue to walk in lewdness you have not learned Christ and will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. (Ephesians 4:19-5:5)

If you continue to grieve the Holy Spirit by continuing to walk in lewdness no inheritance belongs to them is what Paul says there.........

it is impossible

because if it were possible to fall away then salvation would rest on us, and not on God, it would empower us, and not God. it would cause us the ability to boast, and take away from God, who should get all credit.

It is not possible to fall away, because no one who was truly born again, adopted as Gods children, and experienced what it is like to pass from death to life WOULD EVER RETURN TO HIS OWN VOMIT.

Only a dog will return to his vomit, because he never experienced what it was like to be something different than what he is, a dog.

Well then once again your debate is with the Holy Spirit because He expressly said this;

1 Timothy 4:1

[h=2]Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;[/h]

And Apostle Paul says at the end of this chapter only those who continue in the faith by obeying the doctrine will be saved, and will save those who hear them preach. Those who the Spirit says will depart from the faith do not have salvation !!!

Augustine was a dangerous teacher with a number of falsehoods he taught.............

 

[RickyZ]

This would be right of what you said if people would actually look at them as both God's truth, but the eternal security and osas doctrines state falling away is impossible.

If you go back and read the teachings of Augustine who started the eternal security doctrine, he says falling away is impossible and so is Apostasy. Both of which the bible speaks on and shows can and does happen....

It is not a bible issue or a God's word issue, but is an issue with how those concepts are taught in those doctrines that causes the issues. For if they would teach that eternal security is true based on the one's who continues to keep the faith in the Lord and are never shaken in their faith then I would agree. But we can not place eternal security as applying to all because the bible expressly says many will fall away from the faith....

Exactly. Those who lean solely on the "eternal salvation" argument exclude themselves from seeing the whole picture by denying a whole bunch of scripture.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Keep reading as Paul shows on down in verse 14 that we obtained that inheritance by trusting and obeying to follow the gospel teachings of Christ, and that this inheritance is once again obtained as a mental assurance of receiving it. For Paul shows in verse 14 that the actual possession of inheritance is not given tell the day of redemption.

Not sure what bible you read But this is not true.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed,

the only work of obedience spoken of here is faith in the words heard, or the gospel. It says quite clearly, we not only believed, but we actually TRUSTED (HAD FAITH) so mere belief is ruled out, only faith is the acceptable means of salvation.

you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Then he states, at this moment of faith, we were sealed with the HS of promise. It not only tells us when, but why this seal occured.



[SUP]14 [/SUP]whois the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

And it does not say this seal or guarantee STARTS at this day of redemption as you are trying to say, it says this guarantee or seal which STARTED at the MOMENT OF FAITH, is ACTIVE UNTIL this day of redemption.

there is no other way to translate what paul said here, so again, do you have a different bible?

Well then once again your debate is with the Holy Spirit because He expressly said this;

1 Timothy 4:1

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;



And Apostle Paul says at the end of this chapter only those who continue in the faith by obeying the doctrine will be saved, and will save those who hear them preach. Those who the Spirit says will depart from the faith do not have salvation !!!

Augustine was a dangerous teacher with a number of falsehoods he taught.............

Yep and we see it today, Churches who were hard in the word and professing the salvation of Christ have departed from the faith, and now no longer a living breathing church of God.

sorry, Paul can not contradict himself. and say we are sealed with the HS of promise th emoment we trust God until the day of redemption. to later back track and say this seal can be lost or broken.

so I must translate paul in a way he does not contradict himself.

 

[notuptome]

Exactly. Those who lean solely on the "eternal salvation" argument exclude themselves from seeing the whole picture by denying a whole bunch of scripture.

I have been saved for a while and I have never had any issues with the fear of losing my salvation. I have never wanted to become unsaved and I have never feared God taking my salvation from me.

I do not deny scripture as you accuse nor do I rely upon my efforts to maintain my salvation. I do not see how eternal life can be anything but eternal. I do know that sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption is done by God and not me.

The final answer as this thread supposes lies with God. It lies in Gods person, character, virtue and eternal nature. Yes Gods ways are past my understanding but what understanding He has granted me give me no cause to doubt Him.

Some things you just cannot know until you know Him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickyZ]

Again, there are two parts to this equation:

1. God gives us eternal life

2. There are still some who will fall away

These are both God's Word straight from scripture. Until and unless you are able to resolve how these both can be true, you are missing the big picture and the whole truth.

And true, this is for the most part a moot subject. You cannot 'work' your way out of heaven any more than you can work your way in. It is 100% based upon faith. The only ones who really have to worry about any of this are the ones who at some point are going to deny Christ.

 

[KennethC]

Again, there are two parts to this equation:

1. God gives us eternal life

2. There are still some who will fall away

These are both God's Word straight from scripture. Until and unless you are able to resolve how these both can be true, you are missing the big picture and the whole truth.

And true, this is for the most part a moot subject. You cannot 'work' your way out of heaven any more than you can work your way in. It is 100% based upon faith. The only ones who really have to worry about any of this are the ones who at some point are going to deny Christ.

Yes it is solely based on faith and this again leads to issues because how some define faith.

1) Bible defines faith as an active faith of obedience to the Lord

2) Some try to define it as simply believe, as they speak on the coming and hearing, but try to leave of the doing...


The Separation of the Goats and Sheep should be taken into account in this study as both the Goats and Sheep call Jesus their Lord. Only one gets salvation and the other does not, and why is it they don't???

The Lord says because they have denied to help others in need they have denied Him, showing that denying the Lord is more then not believing in Him but also not believing and trusting to do what He said.....

 

[Gr8grace]

Again, there are two parts to this equation:

1. God gives us eternal life

2. There are still some who will fall away

These are both God's Word straight from scripture. Until and unless you are able to resolve how these both can be true, you are missing the big picture and the whole truth.

And true, this is for the most part a moot subject. You cannot 'work' your way out of heaven any more than you can work your way in. It is 100% based upon faith. The only ones who really have to worry about any of this are the ones who at some point are going to deny Christ.

Fall away from what? That is the real question. Some people look at all the "hard" verses a impose falling from salvation.

Losing salvation~~ one would be eternally separated from God and be in torment forever. HUGE consequences, HUGE subject, HUGE implications.

And based upon the character and nature of our God, it would not be in some of the more ambiguous verses in the Bible. Based on the Character and Nature of our God.............He would have a third testament on the subject.

falling from grace~~getting legalistic.......not falling from salvation as some like to teach.

the don't know God~~they stopped at baby christian/milk status. They don't KNOW Him, they just know His salvation.

There are countless examples like this in the bible. But some want to say it is losing salvation. God would be direct and unambiguous if we could be un-born.

 

[KennethC]

Matthew 24:10-13
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.



2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”



Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.


Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.



2 Timothy 4:2-8
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.


Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.



Romans 2:6-10
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;


But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

 

[RickyZ]

Yes it is solely based on faith and this again leads to issues because how some define faith.

1) Bible defines faith as an active faith of obedience to the Lord

2) Some try to define it as simply believe, as they speak on the coming and hearing, but try to leave of the doing...


The Separation of the Goats and Sheep should be taken into account in this study as both the Goats and Sheep call Jesus their Lord. Only one gets salvation and the other does not, and why is it they don't???

The Lord says because they have denied to help others in need they have denied Him, showing that denying the Lord is more then not believing in Him but also not believing and trusting to do what He said.....

Absolutely, and that goes back to point of works being a reliable indicator of your faith. One may by their lips profess in Christ, but the proof is in the pudding - if you're producing bad works your professed faith is hollow and empty indeed.

 

[RickyZ]

Fall away from what? That is the real question. Some people look at all the "hard" verses a impose falling from salvation.

Losing salvation~~ one would be eternally separated from God and be in torment forever. HUGE consequences, HUGE subject, HUGE implications.

And based upon the character and nature of our God, it would not be in some of the more ambiguous verses in the Bible. Based on the Character and Nature of our God.............He would have a third testament on the subject.

falling from grace~~getting legalistic.......not falling from salvation as some like to teach.

the don't know God~~they stopped at baby christian/milk status. They don't KNOW Him, they just know His salvation.

There are countless examples like this in the bible. But some want to say it is losing salvation. God would be direct and unambiguous if we could be un-born.

Given the scriptures below (thank you Kenneth), I don't think there's any part of the "falling away" aspect that God left ambiguous. The only ambiguous part is, are we going to pick and choose which scriptures we believe and which we deny, or are we going to believe all scripture and try to wrap our heads around it's entirety?

I find it's the milk babies who have the most trouble with that (no offense to anyone intended).

Matthew 24:10-13
And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.



2 Peter 2:20-22
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”



Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.


Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.



2 Timothy 4:2-8
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.


Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.



Romans 2:6-10
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;


But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

 

[phil36]

Revelation 17:8English Standard Version (ESV)

8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit[a] and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.

I think that about sums it up.

 

[Stephen63]

well of course we agree with them all. We just know how to interpret them properly in context.

We still can not EARN A GIFT. Although many have tried, but offended the giver so much they never received the gift they tried to earn, nor were they offered a gift again.

But you want to earn something, Good luck with that. If your not born again and adopted as a child of God. non of those passages pertain to you. Your still condemned by the law.

I'm gonna just say exactly what's on my mind right now, though against my better judgement.

First of all, I was talking to Angela, not you. Even though she & I disagree on quite a bit, she doesn't use a know-it-all attitude without scripture..... like you do.

She doesn't butt into my business..... like you do.

She doesn't jump into the conversation as if she's the only one who knows how to do it..... like you do.

So I can feel a little at ease when in discussion with her..... I don't feel that way with you.

You, on the other hand, sparsely use scripture, & rarely use the context. I usually hear that you're right, & I'm wrong & barely saved..... if at all. I wonder how many others hear it that way.

So, it shouldn't come as a surprise when I tell you that you come across to me as a superiority-complexed, pompous jerk.

I know that probably didn't help you much.....but believe me, I'm feeling much better now.

 

[RickyZ]

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/117679-statement-true.html

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, there are two parts to this equation:

1. God gives us eternal life

2. There are still some who will fall away

These are both God's Word straight from scripture. Until and unless you are able to resolve how these both can be true, you are missing the big picture and the whole truth.

And true, this is for the most part a moot subject. You cannot 'work' your way out of heaven any more than you can work your way in. It is 100% based upon faith. The only ones who really have to worry about any of this are the ones who at some point are going to deny Christ.

Well we do not make both come true by saying

God gave us (past tense) eternal life

Some will fall away (loss eternal life)

Because they contradict each other. they claim eternal life is not eternal (it can be lost)

So there is only one way to translate it so they do not contradict,

1. God gave us eternal life
2. Some (who do not have eternal life and never did) can participate in the faith (go to church and act as christians) and fall away from that faith. (but they never had eternal life, for if they did, and eternal life could be lost, Eternal is not eternal. and God is a liar)