OSAS true or false?

[seed_time_harvest]

So then how would you define reprobate? The text(s) where it is used sure doesn't sound good for those who are reprobates.

I would say that a person that is reprobate is a person that would have to be a born again Christian at least that is what i interpret in those Scriptures in Hebrews 6.

In the spirit we were made perfect and sin can't stop us because faith is the issue, Jesus paid the price for our sin and made a way for us to have eternal life but IMO if you do not renew your mind then continued sin will began to effect your mind and the way i see it is you will began to become insensitive to the HOLY SPIRIT and if you continue in sin there is the potential to become reprobate and a person that is reprobate IMO is a blasphemer because they know and knows the difference between right and wrong they just don't care and don't care if it pleases GOD and they will love sin and all those that love to sin renouncing there salvation.

But i would be in total agreement with the osas doctrine if it were not for those verses in Hebrews 6.

 

[JGIG]

Most anti-Osas'ers I find are quite Arminian in their approach to sanctification completely ignoring the work of the Holy Spirit in the believer almost to the point where the Lord says to his children, "ok, I died for you but from here on out it is sink or swim".

Yep. Conditional security is a big bait and switch deal. In the conditional security paradigm Grace saves you, but Grace can't keep you, or teach you, or be patient with you. They don't understand the difference between servant and son. It is very sad.

Also God is not willing that any should perish, especially His children. Him, knowing the future, would take His child home before his child reached that place of no return. Ya, think?

Those who go Home because of sinning do so because of the natural, earthly consequences for that sinning. If one drives drunk and plows their vehicle into a bridge embankment and dies, that's not God's judgement, or even His removal before they 'do any more damage to the Church', it's simply a consequence to their actions.

The Enemy knows that those in Christ are secure - but if he can get them to doubt who they are in Christ, or be more preoccupied with Law-keeping or telling other Christians how they're not really saved if they don't do thus and so, and don't ever have doubts or sin or you're lost - well, he's disabled and hindered huge portions of the Body, hasn't he?

Who wants to tell other people about a god that loves them enough to save them no matter what they've done, but then abandons them if they sin after they've received him? It makes no sense - love the unlovable and broken enough to adopt, but abandon if/when they screw up after adoption?

Makes zero sense, and it's a horrific misrepresentation of our Abba Father's love, commitment, and of our Perfect High Priest, Christ.

-JGIG

 

[ISeeYou]

If what you are saying is attributing to Satan the workings of Gods Holy Spirit then yes that is unforgivable. It appears that only the very religious are capable of this kind of blaspheme. I do not see it being done out of ignorance.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

All it would be then to be against would be to put good for evil in any sense of things, if its just speaking against. The Holy Spirit is CLEAN, PURE, HOLY, therefore speaking against Him and putting unclean for clean is the biggest no no you could ever do as it apears to me.

Satan is just opposites of God, God is true, He is a liar, God is Holy, he is profane, so I dont think its just coming out and saying Satan at anything that is Holy. At least it doesnt seem, it appears an attributes that are against His Holiness.

 

[JGIG]

I would say that a person that is reprobate is a person that would have to be a born again Christian at least that is what i interpret in those Scriptures in Hebrews 6.

In the spirit we were made perfect and sin can't stop us because faith is the issue, Jesus paid the price for our sin and made a way for us to have eternal life but IMO if you do not renew your mind then continued sin will began to effect your mind and the way i see it is you will began to become insensitive to the HOLY SPIRIT and if you continue in sin there is the potential to become reprobate and a person that is reprobate IMO is a blasphemer because they know and knows the difference between right and wrong they just don't care and don't care if it pleases GOD and they will love sin and all those that love to sin renouncing there salvation.

But i would be in total agreement with the osas doctrine if it were not for those verses in Hebrews 6.

Here are a couple of free teachings that may give you some perspective on that; one from a more evangelical stream, the other from a more charismatic stream:

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ASQTo7VxTdQ
• Glory & Grace 2010 Session 9 - Hebrews 6 - audio by Rob Rufus

Grace and peace to you,
-JGIG

 

[ISeeYou]

Heres a few reprobate verses to look at, Im sure I miss a couple in here

Castaway is the same

1Cr 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection : lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway

Reprobates

2Cr 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Reprobate mind

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Reprobate silver

Jerm 6:30 Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.

Rejected

Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

I was badly reprobate, those things which are not convenient are also those things under reprobate

Ephes 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Reprobate mind again

Romans 1:28.... God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Reprobate

Titus 1:16 They professthat they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

I was being convicted when I wrote these lol

Ephes 7:6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool: this also is vanity.

Rejected

Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

 

[Butch5]

It is very bad hermeneutics to take one passage and twist it of context, and make a doctrine out of it.

You our simply deny the essence of salvation, when you claim it is something WE control. God is sovereign in soteriology, anything else is blasphemy and degrades Christ and his sacrifice on the cross to little more than a religious effort we aspire to imitate or not!

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works do that no one at boast." Eph. 2:8-9

Could you explain how that is?

 

[Butch5]

Why are the branches that are in Christ broken off and burned?

John 15:1-2 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."

We see the reason why in the branches of the natural olive tree that were taken away in Romans 11:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee."

So by not abiding in the Word and faith will result in a person being cut off from the vine (or tree). Just as Jesus said in John 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

See what I was talking about? Look at all of the erroneous reasoning

 

[1joseph]

Being raised in church and having Christian parents and grand-parents, I believed in God and Jesus in my youth. As a teenager, while listening to a sermon in church one Sunday morning, I felt the call of God's Spirit. During alter call at the end of the service, while the congregation sang "Just As I Am", I stood gripping the back of the pew, and wept. Crying uncontrollably I stepped into the isle and somehow made it to the alter.

That day I accepted Jesus Christ into my heart as my Lord and Savior. I understood the "Savior" part loud and clear that day but it took many years for me to really grasp the "allowing Him to be my Lord" part.

I've sinned many times since then and still fall short of what I want to be, which is like Him. I've always known He was with me and since accepting Christ I've never felt the Spirit completely leave me. I say completely because It once pulled away when I briefly questioned if He (Jesus) was who I believed him to be. During that time I became arrogant and self righteous. Life did not go well for me. I repented of this questioning of Him (Jesus) and immediately felt the Holy Spirit close to me.

I recall this period as the time the Lord left the one hundred and came after this stray one of his flock (by making my life miserable without Him. Thank you Jesus). I can't say for certain that I am right but I never felt that if I had died while doubting Him that I wouldn't have gone to heaven (I believe I would have gone to heaven). Maybe I feel that way because I didn't die in that state. Maybe God doesn't allow any of His children to die in that kind of state.

"Thank you Father for knowing the hearts of man. We bow in awe of your Righteousness, of your Justness, of you Power. As your Word says, 'Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that you are God.' And thank you for coming after this one, and all of Your other 'ones'."

 

[ISeeYou]

See what I was talking about? Look at all of the erroneous reasoning

No, how is it erroneous, all are in the context of branches being broken off.

It would be more helpful to actually show what it is that is erroneous in it.

Try that because alot of people just call someones post an adjective as if that makes it true, most often its not.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

See what I was talking about? Look at all of the erroneous reasoning

And that's the thing, if your reasoning is not in line with God's words then it will be in error.

 

[crossnote]

Sorry but I do not bypass the work of the Holy Spirit, for starters the Holy Spirit is given only to those who obey God.
Second those who turn away, and do not listen to the Holy Spirit's guidance has committed the unforgivable sin. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 6:4-6


For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

someday the gospel will click...

Galatians 3:2-5
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 

[notuptome]

All it would be then to be against would be to put good for evil in any sense of things, if its just speaking against. The Holy Spirit is CLEAN, PURE, HOLY, therefore speaking against Him and putting unclean for clean is the biggest no no you could ever do as it apears to me.

Satan is just opposites of God, God is true, He is a liar, God is Holy, he is profane, so I dont think its just coming out and saying Satan at anything that is Holy. At least it doesnt seem, it appears an attributes that are against His Holiness.

What is the example that God gives in His word? Jesus heals a man and the Pharisees claim the Jesus healed him by the power of Beelzebub. Matthew 12:31-32 especially vs 32 says that a word spoken against Jesus would be forgiven. Hmmm.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[JesusLives]

I need help with this question and a good answer for OSAS....please help....

O.K. I got to confess and ask a question at the same time. At my last fasting blood test I made a faux pas and forgot that in a few minutes I was going to get blood drawn. I wanted to get the blood test out of the way before all of the Christmas eating and there was the Nichols family party the next day so I had to get it drawn on that day.

Anyway my confession is that I tasted a graham cracker crust that had been in the freezer for a few months to test if it had freezer taste. I totally forgot that in a few minutes I was off to the lab for a fasting blood test... I panicked thinking I am going to lie.... They asked if I had eaten anything and I said no....I lied and feel horrible about it. So will I be forgiven if I ask for forgiveness knowing I lied? What are your thoughts?

 

[tourist]

I need help with this question and a good answer for OSAS....please help....

O.K. I got to confess and ask a question at the same time. At my last fasting blood test I made a faux pas and forgot that in a few minutes I was going to get blood drawn. I wanted to get the blood test out of the way before all of the Christmas eating and there was the Nichols family party the next day so I had to get it drawn on that day.

Anyway my confession is that I tasted a graham cracker crust that had been in the freezer for a few months to test if it had freezer taste. I totally forgot that in a few minutes I was off to the lab for a fasting blood test... I panicked thinking I am going to lie.... They asked if I had eaten anything and I said no....I lied and feel horrible about it. So will I be forgiven if I ask for forgiveness knowing I lied? What are your thoughts?

I know that you were trying to save the graham cracker crust but it reached its expiration date and wasn't worth saving.

 

[The_highwayman]

"Thank you Father for knowing the hearts of man. We bow in awe of your Righteousness, of your Justness, of you Power. As your Word says, 'Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that you are God.' And thank you for coming after this one, and all of Your other 'ones'."

2 cor 5.21 says you were made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus at conversion. Righteousness is position not personal performance.

Set yourself free man, you are righteous!

 

[ISeeYou]

What is the example that God gives in His word? Jesus heals a man and the Pharisees claim the Jesus healed him by the power of Beelzebub. Matthew 12:31-32 especially vs 32 says that a word spoken against Jesus would be forgiven. Hmmm.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

He is a sign to be spoken against though

Luke 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

 

[notuptome]

I need help with this question and a good answer for OSAS....please help....

O.K. I got to confess and ask a question at the same time. At my last fasting blood test I made a faux pas and forgot that in a few minutes I was going to get blood drawn. I wanted to get the blood test out of the way before all of the Christmas eating and there was the Nichols family party the next day so I had to get it drawn on that day.

Anyway my confession is that I tasted a graham cracker crust that had been in the freezer for a few months to test if it had freezer taste. I totally forgot that in a few minutes I was off to the lab for a fasting blood test... I panicked thinking I am going to lie.... They asked if I had eaten anything and I said no....I lied and feel horrible about it. So will I be forgiven if I ask for forgiveness knowing I lied? What are your thoughts?

Did the test turn out ok?

I think you are in the clear but just to be sure you had better make a graham cracker crust and sent it to be for testing. Include you best peach pie filling and whipped cream topping for extra credit.

Sorry God just said no way buddy. My sugar would go into orbit if I did that.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Butch5]

No, how is it erroneous, all are in the context of branches being broken off.

It would be more helpful to actually show what it is that is erroneous in it.

Try that because alot of people just call someones post an adjective as if that makes it true, most often its not.

My post was in reference to a post I made early on in this thread to InSpiritInTruth. However, all of the arguments in support of OSAS are flawed, the Scriptures simply don't teach that doctrine. If you present a specific argument I"ll show you how it's erroneous.

 

[notuptome]

He is a sign to be spoken against though

Luke 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;

Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Don't trouble yourself over this. Only the very religious and self righteous would dare to attribute to Beelzebub the works of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Here are a couple of free teachings that may give you some perspective on that; one from a more evangelical stream, the other from a more charismatic stream:

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ASQTo7VxTdQ
• Glory & Grace 2010 Session 9 - Hebrews 6 - audio by Rob Rufus

Grace and peace to you,
-JGIG

Hello JGIG I started out listoning to the first one

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=ASQTo7VxTdQ

sounds like he is saying that a person that tasted but not swallowed were never really saved and if they were never saved then hebrews 6 would not apply to them.I don't think you can taste without swallowing.If you tasted then you swallowed

if you were really saved(what i think Hebrews is saying)then you tasted by swallowing and everyone that is saved purifies themselves.