Our God is a loving God?
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C
But we do, as parents, allow them to go and to make mistakes and to get hurt. We allow it because the alternative is to take away their personage, to lock them in a safe place and to control everything that they do.
And, if this is true, which I believe it is, would you truly rather not be born? I hope not. Your life may be hard, but the rain (a good thing) falls on the just and the unjust. God filled the earth with good things. He didn't make it hard to have a good life. We humans on the other hand have a way of making one another miserable.
And, if this is true, which I believe it is, would you truly rather not be born? I hope not. Your life may be hard, but the rain (a good thing) falls on the just and the unjust. God filled the earth with good things. He didn't make it hard to have a good life. We humans on the other hand have a way of making one another miserable.
S
Navy, Christ is the Alpha and the Omega. He preceded his human birth and He also "knew in advance." There was more to the story...two additional books of Genesis that didn't make the cut, that go into a bit more detail.
It wasn't death on the Cross that was the biggest torture...Paul was crucified upside down and it took him 3 days to die...that's torture.
Christ's torture was the separation from God that occurred when he took on our sins. That's why He sweated blood and asked God to relieve Him.
Christ laid down His life for others...in this case all others. I assume by your nic your a Navy pilot. You might lay down your life someday, maybe to say others. Were your parents wrong to raise a son capable of that sacrifice? Also, He wasn't saving us from something He created, but from something WE created...death and sin, born of our selfishness.
His nature is such that sin is destroyed in His presence...to come into His presence one must be sin-free or cleansed of sin. He looked down the corridors of time and saw that "no one was righteous, not even one." We can't be good enough on our own to be sin-free since we were tempted into the knowledge of good and evil. We became complete beings of free will and with the nature of selfishness.
Christ conquered death by becoming flesh and moving the battle to the spirit. It is a gift of Grace and Mercy even though we aren't worthy of it.
There are things even an omnipotent God cannot do...be dishonest, or be untrue to his nature. Through Christ He changed the rules of the game to accommodate Man to His nature by counting belief/faith as righteousness IAW the covenant urHe made with Abraham. The covenant is also binding on God since He cannot be untrue. He honors his end of the bargain while we struggle to honor ours. Because of the nature of man, even this isn't enough of a level playing field thus contrasting the true justness of God against the fickle nature of man. Recognizing that, being truly repentent because you recognize the enormity of what's been done is sufficient. Like the Father He is, he recognizes our prodigal nature and is prepared to clean us for the smallest sacrifice of our prideful and sinful nature. For many, that is too much to ask.
It wasn't death on the Cross that was the biggest torture...Paul was crucified upside down and it took him 3 days to die...that's torture.
Christ's torture was the separation from God that occurred when he took on our sins. That's why He sweated blood and asked God to relieve Him.
Christ laid down His life for others...in this case all others. I assume by your nic your a Navy pilot. You might lay down your life someday, maybe to say others. Were your parents wrong to raise a son capable of that sacrifice? Also, He wasn't saving us from something He created, but from something WE created...death and sin, born of our selfishness.
His nature is such that sin is destroyed in His presence...to come into His presence one must be sin-free or cleansed of sin. He looked down the corridors of time and saw that "no one was righteous, not even one." We can't be good enough on our own to be sin-free since we were tempted into the knowledge of good and evil. We became complete beings of free will and with the nature of selfishness.
Christ conquered death by becoming flesh and moving the battle to the spirit. It is a gift of Grace and Mercy even though we aren't worthy of it.
There are things even an omnipotent God cannot do...be dishonest, or be untrue to his nature. Through Christ He changed the rules of the game to accommodate Man to His nature by counting belief/faith as righteousness IAW the covenant urHe made with Abraham. The covenant is also binding on God since He cannot be untrue. He honors his end of the bargain while we struggle to honor ours. Because of the nature of man, even this isn't enough of a level playing field thus contrasting the true justness of God against the fickle nature of man. Recognizing that, being truly repentent because you recognize the enormity of what's been done is sufficient. Like the Father He is, he recognizes our prodigal nature and is prepared to clean us for the smallest sacrifice of our prideful and sinful nature. For many, that is too much to ask.
N
There are still problems with these answers, they only lead to more questions. Of course parents punish there children. But you can not call hell a punishment. The purpose of a punishment is to rehabilitate. With an eternal hell there is no second chance. So those comparing hell to punishing a child are simply wrong.
Someone said that God knows in advance. Then what is the point. If God knew before I was born that I will end up in hell then why would he even let me be born. I know that if I knew in advance that my child would be born and then tortured I would not even bother having children. And then you turn around and say that we have free will and a choice. But if God is omnipotent then he already knows what will happen, we don't have a choice. It is just being played out to a final predetermined conclusion. Unless God didn't know what would happen to us. That would make sense, but then that would be putting a limit on his power. It just keeps going around in circles.
Then some say that we can not comprehend his love. I would say that is a true statement because I sure can't comprehend any parent letting their child go through such a thing.
Someone said that God knows in advance. Then what is the point. If God knew before I was born that I will end up in hell then why would he even let me be born. I know that if I knew in advance that my child would be born and then tortured I would not even bother having children. And then you turn around and say that we have free will and a choice. But if God is omnipotent then he already knows what will happen, we don't have a choice. It is just being played out to a final predetermined conclusion. Unless God didn't know what would happen to us. That would make sense, but then that would be putting a limit on his power. It just keeps going around in circles.
Then some say that we can not comprehend his love. I would say that is a true statement because I sure can't comprehend any parent letting their child go through such a thing.
God knows what you chose, because He sees the future as we see today. He allows each one to choose, whether to be a slave to sin, His enemy, or a servant to Him, His friend. God does not hate the sinner, and in fact sent His Son to die for everything which keeps the sinner in his slavery to sin, and which makes the sinner an enemy of God. Why an enemy? Because God hates unrighteousness, evil, and ungodliness. And what God hates, He will destroy, utterly. This is because He knows the result of these things, into the future which He sees as we see today.
Now some would say, what gives Him the right? And I say that the thing created cannot say to the Creator "why do you do this to me?" If we do not know that He is our Creator, then we are unrighteous, evil, and ungodly.
Now some would say, what gives Him the right? And I say that the thing created cannot say to the Creator "why do you do this to me?" If we do not know that He is our Creator, then we are unrighteous, evil, and ungodly.
M
Blaming God for what happens to us is what is sadistic. We are the ones who choose our own destiny. God is the one who makes a perfect plan for our lives, and invites us to be a part of it, but still allows us to choose. If God stopped people from choosing on their own, He would have to make everyone mindless zombies, and guess what, you wouldn't be here to spew off your complaint. There wouldn't be any complaint, we would do exactly what God wanted all the time because we are completely controlled every waking moment by God. How is that better than allowing us to choose? I think God is happy that we are allowed to complain, and allowed to be real with Him. He is not happy that some people choose to go end up in hell. But happy that He actually will have people with Him in heaven that actually truly Love Him by choice. Remember if He didn't set things up this way you wouldn't even have an opportunity to live.
Machew
Machew
I find that nonbelievers have that opinion because they have not seen with open eyes just what they are needing to be saved from. As to blaming God for their destruction, it is like a man condemned by the courts for murder, sentenced to death by the courts, blaming the courts for his incarceration and eventual death at the state's hand. Yes, the state did carry out the sentence, but the one who committed murder is ultimately responsible for his own trouble.
In our case with God, we were born as we are, that is, sinners, enemies of God. This because the first man, Adam disobeyed God and brought death to us all. In fact, we are not alive at all, because we are not alive to God. In other words, if it ain't eternal, it ain't at all. There are only two kinds of people in the world, those who are dead, and those who are alive, in Jesus. And the final place for those who are dead is the lake of fire. The final place for those who are in Jesus is with God in heaven, forever. It is a free choice which one we are. Not that the cost to us or to God is free, but that we can freely make this choice. God did not predestine us to choose one way or the other, but rather predestined those who make the choice or not to their final place in eternity. Those who will not choose to loose their life and to gain life in Jesus will find the lake of fire for eternity. Those who do choose to live in Jesus are predestined to be conformed to Him into eternity.
What the unbeliever wants to do is deny God's existence because then he can lie to himself and say that there is no lake of fire, no eternal death, so why give up my life to have Jesus' life. He is already dead by this line of reasoning. Just as the murderer is already dead when he decides to take a life that is not his.
In our case with God, we were born as we are, that is, sinners, enemies of God. This because the first man, Adam disobeyed God and brought death to us all. In fact, we are not alive at all, because we are not alive to God. In other words, if it ain't eternal, it ain't at all. There are only two kinds of people in the world, those who are dead, and those who are alive, in Jesus. And the final place for those who are dead is the lake of fire. The final place for those who are in Jesus is with God in heaven, forever. It is a free choice which one we are. Not that the cost to us or to God is free, but that we can freely make this choice. God did not predestine us to choose one way or the other, but rather predestined those who make the choice or not to their final place in eternity. Those who will not choose to loose their life and to gain life in Jesus will find the lake of fire for eternity. Those who do choose to live in Jesus are predestined to be conformed to Him into eternity.
What the unbeliever wants to do is deny God's existence because then he can lie to himself and say that there is no lake of fire, no eternal death, so why give up my life to have Jesus' life. He is already dead by this line of reasoning. Just as the murderer is already dead when he decides to take a life that is not his.
I
Navyairwarrior, loving God and following His path is an act of Faith. As human beings, we don't have all of the answers, and we would be foolish and pompous to think we're entitled to them. We are extremely limited in our abilities to grasp or understand our universe's existence, let alone God's divine plan for us. We are clearly not designed to understand His thought process or or why He sits back and watches the chaos we, as humans, have created for ourselves. It's time we accept the responsibility of our world's self-destructive nature that is leading to our steady decline, because we, as human beings, have brought this upon ourselves by worshiping money, sex, violence and self gratification , when the one thing/being we need to be focused on is God.
The human condition our wold is in at this point in time is not God's fault, but our own. It's not His responsibility, but our own.
I will tell you and admit that many of your questions have run through my mind, as well, such as, why are there so many terrible things in this world, if He is Almighty and can prevent them?
After alot of thought introspection, I've come to the conclussion that God never promised us an easy life. He says that if we believe in Him and accept Jesus as our Savior, He will accept us as His, never did He say our world would be a warless or a violence-free world, and in my opinion, the state of the world today is caused by our selfishness and refusal to love one another, as God has commanded us to do.
It's caused by our lack of self control and our ignorant mentallity that "it's all about us" and "it's all about the now". We go after pleasures that are clearly against His word, and do not listen to His simple message: Do as your Father says, or suffer the consequences...consequenses we bring upon ourselves due to our lack of faith and love for Him...He is not standing on the sideline waiting for us to fail, just so that He can get His jollies by punishing us...He's our biggest supporter and wants nothing more than for us to follow what He knows is the right path for us to follow, after all He designed us, who would know better than Him that if we steal, kill, rape, lust, and ignore self control, that then our souls lose the innocence and compassion we need to thrive?? Yet we choose our own path, instead of following His, our Creator's, the One who knows you inside and out better than you know yourself...
Faith is so important element in loving God! I can't physically see His body and face, but I feel His presence around me, I have felt it, and it's undeniable. When you say you used to believe and no longer do, I can't help but wonder if you ever truly felt His presence when you did believe in Him, because, if you did, it would be difficult for me to understand how anyone can walk away from the joy His love and presence is capable of bringing you.
O
I think people are not answering your question. 
Not because they don't want to but because they already understand it but aren't able to put it into words.
There is a point where you need to stop asking the question because in all honesty, it's not possible to logically explain something that's completely outside the scope of human understanding and that is what leads to circular thinking.
It's like calculus. Some people understand it right off the bat. Others don't and struggle with the theory. However, once they start going through the questions and problems, all of a sudden, it just clicks together and makes sense. They won't ever be able to explain it to you but they get it and are able to complete the homework, assignments, and exams.
Quite often with the big questions about God, understanding comes after living and putting into practice the Christian faith.
Not because they don't want to but because they already understand it but aren't able to put it into words.There is a point where you need to stop asking the question because in all honesty, it's not possible to logically explain something that's completely outside the scope of human understanding and that is what leads to circular thinking.
It's like calculus. Some people understand it right off the bat. Others don't and struggle with the theory. However, once they start going through the questions and problems, all of a sudden, it just clicks together and makes sense. They won't ever be able to explain it to you but they get it and are able to complete the homework, assignments, and exams.
Quite often with the big questions about God, understanding comes after living and putting into practice the Christian faith.
I
I really like this reply to you, navyairwarrior...I hope you don't feel bombarded by my post...I'm not trying to judge, even if it sounds like I am... I truly hope you get from this Chat Room whatever it is you're looking for.
Have a great night!
Your friend in Christ,
Ingrid
Have a great night!
Your friend in Christ,
Ingrid
I think people are not answering your question. Not because they don't want to but because they already understand it but aren't able to put it into words.
There is a point where you need to stop asking the question because in all honesty, it's not possible to logically explain something that's completely outside the scope of human understanding and that is what leads to circular thinking.
It's like calculus. Some people understand it right off the bat. Others don't and struggle with the theory. However, once they start going through the questions and problems, all of a sudden, it just clicks together and makes sense. They won't ever be able to explain it to you but they get it and are able to complete the homework, assignments, and exams.
Quite often with the big questions about God, understanding comes after living and putting into practice the Christian faith.
Not because they don't want to but because they already understand it but aren't able to put it into words.There is a point where you need to stop asking the question because in all honesty, it's not possible to logically explain something that's completely outside the scope of human understanding and that is what leads to circular thinking.
It's like calculus. Some people understand it right off the bat. Others don't and struggle with the theory. However, once they start going through the questions and problems, all of a sudden, it just clicks together and makes sense. They won't ever be able to explain it to you but they get it and are able to complete the homework, assignments, and exams.
Quite often with the big questions about God, understanding comes after living and putting into practice the Christian faith.
M
I never said our destiny is determined, it is planned but not determined. We choose if we follow His plan. God doesn't force us. This means we set our own destiny, but God has made full provision, and helps us without violating our ability to choose on our own, for us to follow His perfect plan for us.
Not true, watching what happens from outside of time and space doesn't mean that what happens inside of time is predetermined. Also, God has given humans the liberty to reproduce by their own free will. We wouldn't truly have free will if God prevented us from choosing to have children when we wanted to. God knows every person that will be made intimately, and by the process He created forms us in our mother's womb to honor our decision to have a child, but does not necessarily determine where a person is going to end up at the end of their life. He definitely has a preferred plan for them, but again each person chooses whether or not they eventually embrace this plan.
F
I think people are not answering your question. Not because they don't want to but because they already understand it but aren't able to put it into words.
There is a point where you need to stop asking the question because in all honesty, it's not possible to logically explain something that's completely outside the scope of human understanding and that is what leads to circular thinking.
It's like calculus. Some people understand it right off the bat. Others don't and struggle with the theory. However, once they start going through the questions and problems, all of a sudden, it just clicks together and makes sense. They won't ever be able to explain it to you but they get it and are able to complete the homework, assignments, and exams.
Quite often with the big questions about God, understanding comes after living and putting into practice the Christian faith.
Not because they don't want to but because they already understand it but aren't able to put it into words.There is a point where you need to stop asking the question because in all honesty, it's not possible to logically explain something that's completely outside the scope of human understanding and that is what leads to circular thinking.
It's like calculus. Some people understand it right off the bat. Others don't and struggle with the theory. However, once they start going through the questions and problems, all of a sudden, it just clicks together and makes sense. They won't ever be able to explain it to you but they get it and are able to complete the homework, assignments, and exams.
Quite often with the big questions about God, understanding comes after living and putting into practice the Christian faith.
S
I think Navy is misusing the term "predestined." The fact of knowling what choice will be made is not the same as making the choice. God is just, and I believe on the day of judgement he will take away the excuses, particularly the ones that attempt to avoid personal responsibility by putting the blame on God. Each of us is unique and God-breathed. Each makes choices, not because God chose them but because we chose them. Although the outcome is known, the guilt is firmly on the person that chose so that all will know God is just and those convicted will aknowledge responsibility. Otherwise why bother with judgement?