Pentecostalism's sketchy origins

[CS1]

CS1,
Instead of Red Xing me, prove me this is wrong [I know you can't but i am here for entertainment of it]:

First of all, the Bible you're most likely using, the KJV, doesn't even match the original Hebrew Scrolls that have been copied over and over word for word by the sofers since Yahweh handed them down. And concerning the New Testament, the KJV is not using the Hebrew Version of Matthew. And if you compare Mark through Revelation to the oldest known Greek Bibles [Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus] the KJV has several add ins these original Bibles never had.

I just did in post #461

 

[AandW]

IF you think I will throw away my Bible which is KJVNKJVNIVNLTAMP1600 just because you say it doesn't match the original

WHICH WE DO NOT EVEN HAVE only COPIES of them by those who write down from the Original and we know our Bible version is 99.8%

correct, why? Because God carried the writers by HIS Holy Spirit and we have more than enough for:

1. Righious living
2. Appropriate Worship

Human error has not prevented God from Keeping HIS word. WE have more than enough to preach the Gospel message with faith and trust that Jesus Christ was crucified, died, Buried, and resurrected from the Dead as the Eyewitnesses and other eyewitnesses have testified in the New Testament 1corinthains chapter 15.

Your educated mindset if you do not agree with that, then you are unbiblical and unlearned.

I have the KJV Bible myself, the Dakes Addition.
But your version of the Old Testament is from my Tanakh but with add ins like can be found in the New Testament.

How do you think you got your Old Testament without the Tanakh?

Did it just magically appear out of thin air?

 

[DeanM]

Have to be honest here, like i try to be all of the time, but I am thinking the RCC becoming Charismatic has been a European issue. I do not find anything like it in the USA's RCC. In the USA, the RCC and majority of Denominations are pushing this Open and Affirming Doctrine for Same Sex Leaders that comes straight from the pits of Hell.

A friend of mine invited me to a church that his parents had been attending and I agreed to go with his parents, his wife and children. They handed me a bulletin when I sat down. As I was reading the pure baloney they stand for as Doctrine, a woman started speaking from the pulpit to read Psalms 138. I hurried and opened my Bible, not interested in using theirs, I began following along as she began reciting 138. Immediately, my version was much different than hers (mine being KJV). It had words describing God as the Mother of Nature and Her instead of Him. Red Flags were popping up in my spirit like a traffic stop light. Not long after her reciting Psalms 138, the Pastor approached the podium and began speaking. Without using my filter, the words just popped right out of my mouth, he is HOMOSEXUAL! Which made many turn toward me and give me hateful looks, including my friend and his family. I told my friend I can't do this, this is an outright abomination unto God. I got up and left. As I was exiting the building, an usher by the title of Deacon stopped me and asked if everything was ok? I said, Nope, I am not interested in entertaining your demons and walked away.

I went home and researched this Church. Turns out, it's an offshoot of the Catholic Church with less rules and regulations called the United Church of Christ. It was a complete Mockery unto God. But offshoots or the Catholic Church itself, here in the USA, they are not Charismatic, they are Demonic!

There is a UCC here in the smallish town I live. Ive heard they are quite liberal but didnt know it was this extreme.

 

[CS1]

I have the KJV Bible myself, the Dakes Addition.
But your version of the Old Testament is from my Tanakh but with add ins like can be found in the New Testament.

How do you think you got your Old Testament without the Tanakh?

Did it just magically appear out of thin air?

Your point is illrelevant. I have not seen anyone challenge the Old Testament as it has to be translated from Hebrew to Greek and so forth. The Septuagint Jesus most likely read from in His early ministry and in His youth. the Tanakh is also known as Instruction, or Law, and the Pentateuch. WHere they both agree on is the first five books of Moses. The Tanakh has 24 books which include a collection of religious writings in ancient times by the Israelites.

To the very Point the first Five Books of the Old Testament we have and built from there around the message of Christ.

Again all scripture Speaks of Christ. We build on HIM and it is all clearly seen from Gen to REV.

Please send me 19.99 to CS1 just showed me my Bible is good. P.O Box Have faith in God's word.

 

[AandW]

There is a UCC here in the smallish town I live. Ive heard they are quite liberal but didnt know it was this extreme.

I never heard of them before. When I was invited I thought Church of Christ, Pentecostal. I quickly got educated, there's a big difference between Church of Christ and United Church of Christ.

As far as being liberal, one might think not giving offerings or tithes or come in shorts and tank tops, or it's a neutral setting of Politics. I was not prepared for liberal as God being called Mother and Her and a Pastor who is Homosexual.

 

[AandW]

Your point is illrelevant. I have not seen anyone challenge the Old Testament as it has to be translated from Hebrew to Greek and so forth. The Septuagint Jesus most likely read from in His early ministry and in His youth. the Tanakh is also known as Instruction, or Law, and the Pentateuch. WHere they both agree on is the first five books of Moses. The Tanakh has 24 books which include a collection of religious writings in ancient times by the Israelites.

To the very Point the first Five Books of the Old Testament we have and built from there around the message of Christ.

Again all scripture Speaks of Christ. We build on HIM and it is all clearly seen from Gen to REV.

Please send me 19.99 to CS1 just showed me my Bible is good. P.O Box Have faith in God's word.

Why would you use the Greek Version when God handed down a Hebrew Version from Himself to Moses? The Torah and Tanakh are more authentic than anything else because it comes [directly] from the ancient Hebrews who got it straight from Yahweh Himself.

 

[AandW]

Yeah, give me that 4th version 3 times translated from 4 languages and i will call it good enough...SERIOUSLY?

 

[AandW]

God Himself gives a Version from the Hebrew Language and you rather use the Greek/Latin/English that has gaps in translation?

Wow, OK!

 

[AandW]

It's a well known Fact that Yeshua and His Disciples spoke Aramaic. the Town of Nazareth where Yeshua read from Isaiah is an Aramaic Speaking Township. We know that Peter could not speak/nor write in Greek and the Book of Mark is Peter's words and Marks translation into Greek. And you think Yeshua read from the Septuagint in Nazareth?

Whew, where did you get these ideas from?

 

[CS1]

Why would you use the Greek Version when God handed down a Hebrew Version from Himself to Moses? The Torah and Tanakh are more authentic than anything else because it comes [directly] from the ancient Hebrews who got it straight from Yahweh Himself.

FYI the Hebrew language yes, and God is also able to keep his word in any languages God is not bound to only speak Hebrew. No one has ever challenged the validity of the First Five Books of Moses. Your point is irrelevant.

 

[CS1]

God Himself gives a Version from the Hebrew Language and you rather use the Greek/Latin/English that has gaps in translation?

Wow, OK!

I came to Know The Lord Jesus Christ from the word of God written originally in Hebrew translated in Greek than Latin and English
Where it was preached to me in English The Holy Spirt was able to convict me and allow me to see my Need for the Lord Jesus Christ.


God is able to keep HIS word. Are you like the type of KJV only but more of a H.O.O Hebrew Orignal Only? Or are you more like the RCC which brags about being the First Church?

 

[CS1]

It's a well known Fact that Yeshua and His Disciples spoke Aramaic. the Town of Nazareth where Yeshua read from Isaiah is an Aramaic Speaking Township. We know that Peter could not speak/nor write in Greek and the Book of Mark is Peter's words and Marks translation into Greek. And you think Yeshua read from the Septuagint in Nazareth?

Whew, where did you get these ideas from?

Jesus very well could have unless you think Jesus did not know how to speak more than one language. And we do see Jesus reading from scripture recorded in the New Testament in a time frame where Greek was for ages taken over. YOu do know there was a time prior to CHrist the word of God was silent right>? look at when the writing of Malachi to the Gospel of MARK there is silence unto the writing of the Gospels. it is clear God did not speak to the Jews in that time frame 445 BC about 400 years before the Birth of Christ.

complete silence.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Thanks for your clarity on comfirming this is personal to you.

I never said it wasn't personal.

Im not sure what to believe with you and ive never seen what your talking about.
maybe its in your head, or maybe youve never tried layin your hands on someone and praying for them, but i know you find that creepy from your op so you could have a demon planting unclean thoughts in your head.

Actually, the creepy bit wasn't in my OP, but that's neither here nor there. If you don't understand something, why don't you ask for clarification rather than insulting me. I'll be happy to have a discussion with you if that's really what you want; but I'm not going to waste my time if all you're going to do is hurl insults. I know what I'm saying may seem offensive to you (or to the Holy Spirit), but don't take it personally, it's not intended that way.

and when you say many is that 1 percent 100 percent. how many penticostal churches have you visited ?.

I attended a Pentecostal church for quite awhile when I was younger; and I've attended many since, off and on.

All you have to do is pick up any relatively modern book on tongue-talking (say, 1960s onward) to see what I'm talking about. They all try to avoid the true gift of tongues and focus on a "prayer language" that supposedly empowers a person to witness or live a more holy life.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I know people who've accepted Christ and have yet to be filled with the Holy Spirit. No one knows why this is, but it does not mean they're not Saved. They truly understood they were sinners and needed God and accepted His Invitation. They just never felt like they were filled with the Holy Spirit and never feel like God is communicating to them in their own private lives. In my view, that's the Measure of Faith God gives to us. Some are given greater Faith, and some are given just enough to Believe in God and accept Him.

What do you mean by "filled with the Holy Spirit?" And how do they know they haven't been filled?

A person can be filled with the Holy Spirit and not necessarily have an earth-shattering experience. They have to take it on faith. But if a person wants more of the Holy Spirit, all they have to do is ask:

"If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"—Luke 11:15

But isn't it [amazing] that John Wesley saw first hand what is happening in Modern churches and called it Genuine?

Why? Why is this amazing?

 

[de-emerald]

I never said it wasn't personal.

Actually, the creepy bit wasn't in my OP, but that's neither here nor there. If you don't understand something, why don't you ask for clarification rather than insulting me. I'll be happy to have a discussion with you if that's really what you want; but I'm not going to waste my time if all you're going to do is hurl insults. I know what I'm saying may seem offensive to you (or to the Holy Spirit), but don't take it personally, it's not intended that way.



I attended a Pentecostal church for quite awhile when I was younger; and I've attended many since, off and on.

All you have to do is pick up any relatively modern book on tongue-talking (say, 1960s onward) to see what I'm talking about. They all try to avoid the true gift of tongues and focus on a "prayer language" that supposedly empowers a person to witness or live a more holy life.

I would rather not live in the past. so no thanks.

 

[soberxp]

Serious? You dont believe that the gift of distinguish the Spirit is for today?

I only found that people's stupidity, any strange theory can accept, but can not accept light. the light of Jesus, the return of Jesus，They only think anything of Satan's miracles

 

[Amanuensis]

The start of Pentecostalism as we know it today was fraught with error as well as the genuine. Satan knows how to intersperse the false with the true. "War on the Saints" by Jesse Penn-Lewis is worth reading on this. She covered the Welsh revival in the early 1900's. It was fundamentally a restoration of the truth of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I've read the book that describes the Azusa Street revival. It was interesting. The cover of the book showed lightning striking the ground with a typical American church building. A friend of mine was unimpressed. He reminded me that Satan fell like lightning.

There were many physical manifestations that were ungodly, much like the demonic Toronto Blessing. Unfortunately many people do not know the difference between the Spirit, God, and the supernatural, which is Satan. I'm happy to explain more if necessary.

Again... the Pentecostal experience is covered in the Book of Acts. Let's just stick to that and we can ignore the errors of church history. There will be more errors that will come and go but the Word remains forever and on that solid ground we can stand.
Those that have experienced the infilling of the Holy Spirit for Power to Witness and live out that constant enabling dunamis power as they read about it in the book of Acts are not too concerned about Toronto or Asuza street and for that we can be glad.

 

[Aidan1]

I only found that people's stupidity, any strange theory can accept, but can not accept light. the light of Jesus, the return of Jesus，They only think anything of Satan's miracles

Light sometimes can lead in the false direction. Satan is called the angel of light.
With the goal to turn the people away from God, without they recognize it.

 

[soberxp]

Light sometimes can lead in the false direction. Satan is called the angel of light.
With the goal to turn the people away from God, without they recognize it.

I can often hear Satan hissing,Sounds like a serpent. I don't understand what Satan wants to say. how Eve understand it?

 

[AandW]

I came to Know The Lord Jesus Christ from the word of God written originally in Hebrew translated in Greek than Latin and English
Where it was preached to me in English The Holy Spirt was able to convict me and allow me to see my Need for the Lord Jesus Christ.


God is able to keep HIS word. Are you like the type of KJV only but more of a H.O.O Hebrew Orignal Only? Or are you more like the RCC which brags about being the First Church?

Amen!

I completely agree 100% that God can work through anything especially translation. But there is an enlightenment to reading the Version that is more original than a translation. And in some situations, there is even more clarity on what that Verse should be stating VS what the translation makes it appear to state.