Pentecostals and others claiming "second experiences"

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Note the distinction between "spirit-filled people" and those who are not. Again, we see the divide being expressed in the words of individuals who are claiming I am misrepresenting the elitism of charismatics/Pentecostals.

there is a big distinction

seems to rattle you dude :LOL:

are you getting angry? you sound angry
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,192
4,670
113
By the way, anyone who believes Bethel's nonsense lacks discernment.

If they think God's glory can be replicated by pouring Hobby Lobby gold dust into a ventilation system, they are crazy. If they came into contact with a powerful manifestation of God's glory, they would be aware how ridiculous it is to claim a fake gold glitter cloud is God's glory.
Totally agree. I don't know if that junk is still going on, I'm not in the circle. As I said, tore our church apart. Someone said "don't you believe God can fill teeth with gold?" I said "I believe He "could" but He wouldn't. There are people dying with all manner of diseases, go pray for them to receive healing!!" That person didn't like my answer, but oh well.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
I do!! You are generalizing. The majority don't believe this way. Just because you know some people doesn't mean you paint every Pentecostal the same way. I've never come on here and started a thread that said "You know what the problem is with Baptists? All they want to do is have pot lucks. They don't read the Bible correctly and therefore they must all have a demon". Which has been said of Pentecostals here. So why do people start a thread to bash another brother/sister in the Lord? I'm frankly tired of it. BTW there are people in every denomination that speak in tongues. Every denomination


* by said here, I mean in the forums
speaking of Baptists, MacArthur is not only a Baptist, but a Calvinists as well

I know for a fact there are people in his congregation that speak in tongues

God just keeps on feeding the hungry
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,038
1,297
113
ha

well the problem is not youtube per se

the problems are the people who post them

some are legit and others are just click bait or sensational garbage

and then we have all the entertaining puppy and kitten videos...for people like me :giggle:
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,192
4,670
113
I am just trying to be at least as accurate as you are in your descriptions of those who have the baptism in the Holy Spirit

since the Holy Spirit gives the gifts, who are you to determine if some are no longer available or who gets them?

I have noticed that many claim the gift of teaching, while saying others no longer exist

those particular teachers, will end up teaching error...the way MacArthur does

and you too for that matter...although surely you do not claim to be a teacher?

a cessationist does not really believe the NT as far as I can see. cherry picking what you want to believe and tossing the rest is not really believing

Lol that's true. Remember we had that argument with VCO or VOC or whatever? He was a "teacher" and God had told him to write all these things. The Spirit spoke to him, but everyone else has a demon. smh He got so mad he blocked me. Such a hypocrite.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
1,928
113
there is a big distinction

seems to rattle you dude :LOL:

are you getting angry? you sound angry
No, I am not angry. It doesn't matter to me whether someone thinks I'm at a lower level of spirituality than him. God is the one who judges me. I suppose if my pastor told me that I needed to work on my relationship with God, or a close friend, I would listen to him, but not someone on a forum :)
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,192
4,670
113
speaking of Baptists, MacArthur is not only a Baptist, but a Calvinists as well

I know for a fact there are people in his congregation that speak in tongues

God just keeps on feeding the hungry
Sure, I've been in Baptist churches that speak in tongues, and every other denomination you can name. Was a little surprised with the Methodists I'll admit.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
17,192
4,670
113
No, I am not angry. It doesn't matter to me whether someone thinks I'm at a lower level of spirituality than him. God is the one who judges me. I suppose if my pastor told me that I needed to work on my relationship with God, or a close friend, I would listen to him, but not someone on a forum :)

" It doesn't matter to me whether someone thinks I'm at a lower level of spirituality than him. "

Once again the majority do not believe that.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
"Bill Johnson is one of the worst charismatics in the USA. His group tries to manufacture "miracles' by pouring gold dust into the ventilation system, and dropping feathers from the ceiling, claiming they are from a divine origin. "

ITA total nutcase seeking attention. Seen it,called it out. Had a pastor in our church that started with that. He had never believed that way then all of a sudden there was a free for all in our church. When you can't get people to attend your church, then you create something to draw attention. Ripped the church apart but we got him tossed out, not just the church, but the state. He got such a bad name he had to leave. I do NOT agree with that foolishness, nor do most Pentecostals. Charismatics may differ, they have no overseer so they are free to follow whoever and whatever fad. Though I don't think even the majority of Charismatics would agree with that.

well that and the fact that our op here, makes no distinction that most spirit people do not act like fools

then he turns around and makes sweeping statements about those who are spirit filled

and in his error, states we all think we are better than he is

I can't help how he feels

and no matter how many times we will state we do not think like that, he continues to say otherwise

this is the main reason these types of threads go on and on and on

no one likes to be lied about and so we keep calling out the lies but they keep coming :rolleyes:

even more fun, each one that starts these threads acts like they are coming here with fresh news and information we all need to know and he/she is going to straighten us all out

it has reached absurdity
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
No, I am not angry. It doesn't matter to me whether someone thinks I'm at a lower level of spirituality than him. God is the one who judges me. I suppose if my pastor told me that I needed to work on my relationship with God, or a close friend, I would listen to him, but not someone on a forum :)

get it straight dude

YOU are the one claiming to be a some lower level of spirituality

no one here has said that

send me your address and I'll mail you some kleenex and a Bible

you need to work on your relationship with people. you keep posting the same lies about us

you are truly hilarious. you come on a forum and state you would not listen to someone on a forum

smh
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Lol that's true. Remember we had that argument with VCO or VOC or whatever? He was a "teacher" and God had told him to write all these things. The Spirit spoke to him, but everyone else has a demon. smh He got so mad he blocked me. Such a hypocrite.

oh you cannot beat that one

what these anti Holy Spirit people fail to see, is that they are caught in their own trap

they will tell you that the Holy Spirit does not tell people anything and they go ahead and say God told them to do such and such

or God spoke to them

and to top it all off, they DO NOT SEE that is what they are doing

God does have a sense of humor ;)
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
I don't know how to weigh how many do and don't hold those beliefs.

then maybe be quiet and learn something

you have made sweeping judgements since you got here

you also state God is your judge

that is about the lamest thing anyone can say when faced with objective truth they cannot deal with

at the moment, we are all juding the ridiculous claims you have made
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
3,744
1,928
113
get it straight dude

YOU are the one claiming to be a some lower level of spirituality

no one here has said that

send me your address and I'll mail you some kleenex and a Bible

you need to work on your relationship with people. you keep posting the same lies about us

you are truly hilarious. you come on a forum and state you would not listen to someone on a forum

smh
Note that I said I would not listen to someone on a forum if they claimed I was at some lower level of spirituality. Seems like you are not capable of reading whole sentences but only the parts that you need in order to misrepresent someone.

Here's my simple conclusion: many Pentecostals/charismatics claim that non-Pentecostals/charismatics are inferior in some spiritual sense. They claim to be super-duper Christians who have achieved a higher level of spirituality through a second experience. In their minds, it isn't enough to be regenerated; you need to be regenerated and, then, experience a "second blessing" which empowers them for service, and sometimes to be sinless. This reminds me of the error of the Colossians, where Jesus isn't enough..it is "Jesus plus".

Additionally, many Pentecostals/charismatics slander non-Pentecostals/charismatics by claiming they don't believe in "the gifts" or "the Spirit", knowing all along that they do believe in spiritual gifts and do teach that the believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. However, since there is a different view concerning "miraculous sign gifts" such as speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophesying or healing by individuals, this claim that others don't believe in "the Spirit" or "the gifts" is set forth in order to slander them.

As some have indicated, they don't hold these beliefs...however there are others that do, and I have talked to them. Some have been online, and some have been individuals involved in a parachurch ministry I am a part of.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,154
2,359
113
I can see both sides pretty clearly. In my own experience I've seen people exaggerate, over emphasize and some times fall victim tp a mass psychosis.

This is not to imply that the Holy Spirit does not exist or it does not bestow gifts on those it chooses however there is nowhere in the Bible that it says; we must speak in tongues or preform signs and wonders to prove we are saved, if we are saved. That's nonsense. We most believe that Jesus is, (not was) the Son of God and that he allowed himself to be sacrificed for our sins. If we believe in our hearts and confess with our mouths that Jesus is (not was) Lord we shall be saved. That's the key. Our works are may be good but without the blood to cover our sins they are dung.
No,it says saved people do that.

Are you saying saved people don't?

Frame it in the proper format
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,154
2,359
113
Your post distorts the cessationist position, and I believe it's intentional.

When continuationists claim that cessationists don't believe in the gifts of the Spirit, they are lying.

Cessationists do believe in the gifts of the Spirit...they don't believe that certain gifts are active today, including speaking in tongues, interpreting tongues, prophesying in terms of foretelling the future, etcetera.

So, continuationists define "the gifts" as the gifts that charismatics/Pentecostals claim they have..in other words, the above gifts. Is this because they don't acknowledge other gifts that cessationists identify with, including teaching, encouragement, administration, etcetera?

Because, if they claim cessationists don't believe in "the gifts", then apparently they are defining "the gifts" as those handful of gifts, and aren't acknowledging that there are other gifts.

Why don't you believe in "the gifts"?

Notice, folks, that he's claiming cessationists have committed the "unpardonable sin" because they don't hold the same position as him. That's another typical trait of charismatics/Pentecostals....to scare others with the "unpardonable sin".

Actually, the unpardonable sin applied to the Pharisees, who claimed that Jesus was doing certain works such as healings through Satan's power....it says nothing about doubting folks falling on the floor and flopping like a fish for hours, barking like dogs, laughing maniacally, claiming they are healing slightly longer legs while shifting the person's shoe down, claiming to go into morgues and raise the dead, speaking in tongues, etcetera.

So, to repeat my question, why do you claim cessationlsts don't believe in "the gifts" when the topic of discussion relates to false charismatic/Pentecostal behavior? Do you realize that cessationists believe that the Holy Spirit empowers the believer with other gifts? If so, why are you misrepresenting and claiming that cessationlists don't believe in "the gifts"?

I think honesty would be one of the characteristics that a Christian would possess.
You are not getting away with you doubletalk
Now you claim cessationists NEVER ascribe satan to the work of the Holy Spirit.
...and that you and your circles decide when to invoke it.(frame anything your ignorance catagorizes as fake into either an act,or under some other power).

IOW,You know only what here say taught you,

Heck,had i not gotten saved in the charismatic movement i might even agree with you if all i had were attacker youtube vids as my source.

What you do is "fake investigate" . find what you think are fakes,bow out you chest,and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

An atheist friend of mine got saved recently. He could write a book on his transformation. A charismatic guy came to his shop anointed him with oil ,and prayed for him and prophesied over him. Then took him to the full gospel church service sunday.
After church the pastor prayed over him in english firstbthen tongues.
Larry hit the floor. Boom. Was throne backwards. (Broken collarbone and all)

I was so excited. My atheist friend of 30+ yrs saved delivered,set free and on fire for God.

Now..... i am a part of a baptist bible study. When i went to class i told them the story.
THEY LAUGHED ME OUT OF THERE.

cessationists.

I no longer attend
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,154
2,359
113
Note that I said I would not listen to someone on a forum if they claimed I was at some lower level of spirituality. Seems like you are not capable of reading whole sentences but only the parts that you need in order to misrepresent someone.

Here's my simple conclusion: many Pentecostals/charismatics claim that non-Pentecostals/charismatics are inferior in some spiritual sense. They claim to be super-duper Christians who have achieved a higher level of spirituality through a second experience. In their minds, it isn't enough to be regenerated; you need to be regenerated and, then, experience a "second blessing" which empowers them for service, and sometimes to be sinless. This reminds me of the error of the Colossians, where Jesus isn't enough..it is "Jesus plus".

Additionally, many Pentecostals/charismatics slander non-Pentecostals/charismatics by claiming they don't believe in "the gifts" or "the Spirit", knowing all along that they do believe in spiritual gifts and do teach that the believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. However, since there is a different view concerning "miraculous sign gifts" such as speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues, prophesying or healing by individuals, this claim that others don't believe in "the Spirit" or "the gifts" is set forth in order to slander them.

As some have indicated, they don't hold these beliefs...however there are others that do, and I have talked to them. Some have been online, and some have been individuals involved in a parachurch ministry I am a part of.
"many do and don't"

Lol

Pick on your ow groups faults

Believe me there are a ton of fakes and heretics.
A virtual gold mine for you to expose
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,523
113
You are not getting away with you doubletalk
Now you claim cessationists NEVER ascribe satan to the work of the Holy Spirit.
...and that you and your circles decide when to invoke it.(frame anything your ignorance catagorizes as fake into either an act,or under some other power).

IOW,You know only what here say taught you,

Heck,had i not gotten saved in the charismatic movement i might even agree with you if all i had were attacker youtube vids as my source.

What you do is "fake investigate" . find what you think are fakes,bow out you chest,and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

An atheist friend of mine got saved recently. He could write a book on his transformation. A charismatic guy came to his shop anointed him with oil ,and prayed for him and prophesied over him. Then took him to the full gospel church service sunday.
After church the pastor prayed over him in english firstbthen tongues.
Larry hit the floor. Boom. Was throne backwards. (Broken collarbone and all)

I was so excited. My atheist friend of 30+ yrs saved delivered,set free and on fire for God.

Now..... i am a part of a baptist bible study. When i went to class i told them the story.
THEY LAUGHED ME OUT OF THERE.

cessationists.
Well it was unkind of them to laugh at you.

There are many glaring scriptural errors in the little story you present on behalf of your atheist friend.

There is much you need to learn from the scriptures and the Holy Spirit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
9,154
2,359
113
Your experience sounds like regeneration to me. I acknowledge regeneration. I don't acknowledge the "second blessing", which is what I'm criticizing.
Thak God Jesus and Paul got that blessing you reject.

And thank you Jesus you gave it to me!!!

He is alive and he never lost power.
"These signs SHALL FOLLOW those that believe..."

Amen to Jesus
Let God be true and every man a liar