Perhaps the Poorest Translated Verse, found in Romans 10

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Nov 2, 2013
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#21
In continuing a study of Romans, I find several erroneous translations, but possibly one of the worst is found in Romans 10. Not accusing any translators of fraud or deliberate deception, just that man is capable of error and that ideology/ preconceived notions, along with threat of life or limb, could taint or sway one's opinion.

Though, to my dismay, I've found such errors in my beloved KJV as well as most modern translations I have sought, I maintain the original autographs to be the inerrant Word of the Most High Almighty, and with the help of the indwelling Spirit bestowed upon believers of Messiah, that no error is big enough to hide the truth, when a proper study of all scripture is engaged upon.

My hope is that any would join in a discussion to cast light upon a true understanding of the Word. Although I do not find it helpful to be inundated with out of context verses to push a personal agenda, no rules of engagement are imposed other than to be courteous.


At the time of this Romans letter, Paul faced several problems. As for the Jews, some maintained the view that gentiles had to become Jews first as part of their faith in Yeshua, while others denied the righteousness of God by asserting their own special place with no regard for God's worldwide intentions. Ironically, those who would ignore history, risk repeating it.
Romans 10


Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


10 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

I believe "Brethren" in this context are both Jewish and gentile believers in Yeshua. Though focused on Israel, Paul's message is also for the gentiles in the congregation, as he will later remind the gentiles of the "obedience of faith," (see also Romans 1:1-7) with particular regard to those Jews who do not yet believe in Yeshua. Paul makes clear in Romans 11 that his "ministry to the gentiles" is on behalf of Israel's salvation.

I have yet to come to what I believe to be the worst translated verse, it is but a few verses away...

They are THEY.

They is a spiritual word.

I bear THEM record. I and THEM are two words that are like THEY. Just as YOU or YOUR. They move in and out of people all the time.

There are many verses that give and remove power to spirits or people. Here is I changing THY, THOU, THEE ultimately giving HE power over THEE....

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#22
The scripture is directing us to inspired writing we don't have. That is an error. Would the author have mentioned it were it not inspired? Do we have any other passages in the bible that direct us to consult something other than God's word?
??? (see avatar....... :) )
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#23
You're reaching now. For hundreds of years easter has been acknowledged to be an error, and indeed, everywhere else in the new testament the word pascha is translated passover. What place does mention of a pagan holiday have in the bible?
Brother Phil said:

Let's start with two, shall we? Acts 12:4....the word easter should not be there. The only time it is in the bible and it has no business being there the one time.

................(please see the Scriptures I quoted..........)
 
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phil112

Guest
#24
Brother Phil said:

Let's start with two, shall we? Acts 12:4....the word easter should not be there. The only time it is in the bible and it has no business being there the one time.

................(please see the Scriptures I quoted..........)
I was referring to the word easter only. You reached out and threw several other words into the discussion. I did not make the statement that no word should be used only once in the bible, now did I? :)
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#25
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

While the Pharisees and others were very involved with the Torah, keeping many of its outward commandments quite well, (Which Yeshua Himself told the people to follow their example, to do as Moses said.) they did not see beyond the "outer garment" of the Torah commandments to the "goal" which those commandments pointed to. If they had been following Torah in faith, if they were allowing God to circumcise their hearts ("to be born again"), they would have recognized Yeshua for Who He was -- the ultimate goal of the Torah, "God" tabernacled in a human form (in his people);

John 1

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. [SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. [SUP]7 [/SUP]The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. [SUP]9 [/SUP]That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. [SUP]10 [/SUP]He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. [SUP]11 [/SUP]He came unto his own, and his own received him not. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [SUP]13 [/SUP]which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.



It is quite possible to follow the commandments and not see the "body beneath the garments". The letter of the Law was meant to attain to the Spirit of the Law in which God's instructions are written on our hearts, (circumcised hearts).

I relate this to:

[SUP]36 [/SUP]And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old. [SUP]37 [/SUP]And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish. [SUP]38 [/SUP]But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved. [SUP]39 [/SUP]No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.


So much could be said of this verse (Romans 10:3), it is rich with meaning. To liken it to a child following their father's rules without understanding why, in their hearts they do not want to, as they think it makes no sense, but may do so in order to stay out of trouble and not out of desire to please their dad. They may reject their dad's teaching thinking it obsolete, and they know better than dad. As they mature, hopefully they understand better that, dad's rules are good and right, and leads to all that is good and right, and they submit with gladness and deeper love for a dad who would love them enough to teach them wisdom.
 
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K

Karraster

Guest
#26
[SUP]There is no need of making a case pro/con different translations, it is not my goal to disparage Bibles. I merely wanted it known to who seeks that "Word once delivered to the saints", that the Hebrew sometimes is not conveyed well in English, that the Greek did not even have words in some cases to convey Hebrew words. Most of them deliver enough truth for any man/woman to build on. When your journey truly begins to "know Almighty", I am convinced that no power can prevent you,[/SUP]1 John 4:4

New King James Version (NKJV)


[SUP]4 [/SUP]You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.





[SUP] Several translations are similar to KJV:
[/SUP][SUP]KJV
4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


That translation friends, does not "jive" with the rest of what Paul says, and has given some the wrong impression. Permit me to add, if anyone has gotten a wrong impression from 1 verse, or even 10, the fault lies within themselves, for they did not care about the truth enough to diligently find it!
The word "end" in verse 4, is telos in the Greek. Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (which is incidentally, a "Protestant" work), correctly states that telos in Romans 10:4, should be defined as, "the final issue or result of a state or process."


Christian translators have inserted this ambiguous phrase, "end of the law," to lend support to their false doctrine that Paul taught the Torah was done away with by Yeshua's work, which could not be further from the truth. Some, such as the New English Bible, go as far as saying, "For Christ ends the law and brings righteousness for everyone who has faith."[SUP]1 [/SUP]

Faith in Yeshua does not end the "law" (Romans 3:31, Matthew 5:17-21). Paul has already said in his letter that the Torah witnesses to the righteousness of God. How could it be a witness if it is done away with? The context of the entire Romans letter to this point and forward, is that if a person was/is following Torah in faith, that person will recognize Yeshua as the Messiah as He is the Torah in the flesh -- the goal of the Torah (written on our hearts) (refer back to verse 3, or better yet read the chapter preceding and following, as well as this "whole" chapter).

Romans 10:4

Common English Bible (CEB)


[SUP]4 [/SUP]Christ is the goal of the Law, which leads to righteousness for all who have faith in God.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Here I find a translation that agrees with the rest of Paul's letter. (above)


 
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S

Spokenpassage

Guest
#27
Let's start with two, shall we? Acts 12:4....the word easter should not be there. The only time it is in the bible and it has no business being there the one time.
2 Kings 10:34.."Now the rest of the acts of Jehu, and all that he did, and all his might, are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Israel?"
I challenge you to find the "rest of the acts of Jehu".
Have I offended you, or have you any disagreement other than this against me?
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#28
CEB
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Moses writes about the righteousness that comes from the Law: The person who does these things will live by them.[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]6 [/SUP]But the righteousness that comes from faith talks like this: Don’t say in your heart, “Who will go up into heaven?[SUP][b][/SUP] (that is, to bring Christ down) [SUP]7 [/SUP]or “Who will go down into the region below?[SUP][c][/SUP] (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). [SUP]8 [/SUP]But what does it say? The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart[SUP][d][/SUP] (that is, the message of faith that we preach). [SUP]9 [/SUP]Because if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and in your heart you have faith that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. [SUP]10 [/SUP]Trusting with the heart leads to righteousness, and confessing with the mouth leads to salvation.

Paul quotes several times from the Torah to show that the righteousness based in Torah is the same as righteousness based on faith/trust. No one was ever saved through doing works before Yeshua.


Today, followers of Yeshua/Jesus, who keep Torah are often accused of being legalistic, trying to "put people back under the bondage of the law," as if to say they are returning to an "old way" of salvation by works. This is an erroneous argument however, as there was never a works-based way of salvation before Yeshua came. Salvation has always been through faith -- as defined by God -- and God has given only one revelation (Torah) to live out this faith and to learn how to be conformed to His image.

There are believers, and there are followers. There are believers who follow, and believers who do not follow. How can you say "Lord Lord", then do not do as He says? If He is your Lord
[SUP]( 9 [/SUP]Because if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord”) , He is your Master, your King, and you do as He says.

How do you live out your faith? Trusting in God, and following what Messiah taught? Or, trusting in yourself that just because you believe in Messiah you can ignore His message to obey, as many false teachers in the world have said, including many Churches. If you do not obey, He is not your Lord.

John 14:15-17
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If ye love me, keep my commandments.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If you obey Him, He says you will receive the Spirit of Truth.



 
K

Karraster

Guest
#29
Again, Paul shows that faith/trust via proper understanding of Torah (Romans 10:2-3), and faith/trust via proper understanding of Yeshua (Matthew 5:17-21), are the same thing. You cannot follow Torah "in faith" and deny Yeshua, and you cannot "have faith" in Yeshua while maintaining that you are not subject to the Torah of God (Romans 8:6-7, 1 John 2:3-5).

There is much to say about the Word. It is deep, it is something to ponder day and night. My hope and prayer is that all would neglect himself for a while, stop taking everything personal as if he were the center of the universe. Let's talk about God's Word, and about what Messiah taught, for they are one and the same, they completely agree.
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#30
[SUP]11 [/SUP]The scripture says, All who have faith in him won’t be put to shame.[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]12 [/SUP]There is no distinction between Jew and Greek, because the same Lord is Lord of all, who gives richly to all who call on him. [SUP]13 [/SUP]All who call on the Lord’s name will be saved.[SUP][f][/SUP]


Once again, Paul shows the theme of the Shema, there is no distinction between Jew and gentile regarding opportunity for salvation. The term "whosoever," includes Jew and gentile, and once again points to the Shema. Here, Paul quotes from the Tenakh, Joel 2:32.

[SUP]32 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.


It can be shown where virtually all of the New Testament is taken from the Old Testament. That would make for a long thread!!
 
Mar 3, 2013
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#31
I understand what you're saying, but there are actually a couple of errors in the bible. Easy enough to show, should someone be interested. The OP seems to have been trying for some kind of dramatic presentation that falls short of what I would believe informative posts are. The initial post would lead a person to believe that the OP discovered something previously unknown, which I believe to be impossible concerning God's word. He would not allow something to be hidden from man for 2000 years if it was something we needed to know.
Isn't it nice you have the choice of not reading it instead of belittling the writer if you don't like how the message is presented? Hint hint!
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#32
Romans 10:1-5 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.


This scripture points toward religious traditions like the Pharisees had and practiced. They transgressed the law according to Jesus, and today we are vulnerable to do the tame by tradition, wanting it to just be something neglected. The way that happens is hearing what sounds good, and not searching scriptures to prove what we hear.

John 7:16-19 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Colossians 2:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
 
S

Spokenpassage

Guest
#33
Let's start with two, shall we? Acts 12:4....the word easter should not be there. The only time it is in the bible and it has no business being there the one time.
2 Kings 10:34.."Now the rest of the acts of Jehu, and all that he did, and all his might, are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Israel?"
I challenge you to find the "rest of the acts of Jehu".
Actually, I don't even see the word Easter, it says Passover. Also, there was a book of chronicles mentioned in Esther that had records during the king of Persia reign, does that mean it's a missing part of the bible because it mentioned it? No...
 
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phil112

Guest
#34
Have I offended you, or have you any disagreement other than this against me?
Not at all. Did you somehow detect a note of discourse in my post? You disagreed with my statement and I brought forth the basis for it. Why the animosity?
 
Mar 3, 2013
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#35
Romans 10:4

King James Version (KJV)

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I could see a legalistic person being against such a verse, or people who are involved in mixture of covenants (what they call "balance"). Legalism refuted in one verse.
If a Christian understood the state of being in covenant with God which we have inherited, for lack of a better word right this minute, then he/she would know that righteousness is not by the law, but it is not to be ignored as many prefer to do today. But most just don't get it.
 
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phil112

Guest
#36
Isn't it nice you have the choice of not reading it instead of belittling the writer if you don't like how the message is presented? Hint hint!
What did I say that was untoward? I questioned the OP's intention by noting that drawing out said explanation was unnecessary drama, and that said OP also hinted at some kind of new revelation that we were unaware of, both of which have been proven to be accurate. How is that belittling, and why should I NOT comment if it was posted on a board just for that purpose?
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#37
I don't think it is possible for any translation to be accurate, If God communicated scripture to you in 2014 and you were putting it into your language, like English, for an ancient Hebrew and it seemed to you that "go fly a kite" best expressed it, what do you think the ancient Hebrew would think you said?

Do you think you know all that the word "salt" meant to the Hebrews and how it was used at different times that the 4,000 years or so that the bible covers?

I think we owe a big thumbs up to our wonderful scholars who are learning everything they can about Hebrew culture and their language at different periods for helping us understand.

I also think our intellectuals with their superiority who dissect one or two verses without consulting other verses to see if their interpretation fits God entire scheme for us should get a huge thumbs DOWN.
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#38
I don't think it is possible for any translation to be accurate, If God communicated scripture to you in 2014 and you were putting it into your language, like English, for an ancient Hebrew and it seemed to you that "go fly a kite" best expressed it, what do you think the ancient Hebrew would think you said?

Do you think you know all that the word "salt" meant to the Hebrews and how it was used at different times that the 4,000 years or so that the bible covers?

I think we owe a big thumbs up to our wonderful scholars who are learning everything they can about Hebrew culture and their language at different periods for helping us understand.

I also think our intellectuals with their superiority who dissect one or two verses without consulting other verses to see if their interpretation fits God entire scheme for us should get a huge thumbs DOWN.
Well said. I agree.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#39
Not sure what you have in mind...actually, that's not true-I have no clue what you have in mind, but the drama is certainly unnecessary. Whatever point you are trying to make is lost by trying to make us anticipate the verse you have in mind. Hands down, the poorest translated verse in the bible is Acts 12:4.
I agree with you on Acts 12:4, and I'm sure there is more, but that one is very blatant.
 
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paulsfam4

Guest
#40
romans.25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: [4] a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.