Perspective On The Law/Grace

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Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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#21
The sabboth was created for man.
Man does better with a day of rest.
A day to put asside activities and fellowship with God.
A day to recharge and enjoy family.
A day to reasses purpose and focus.
Could be a feast day or a fast.
A day of worship and devotion.

Jesus came and broke their sabboth.
But a closer look reveals he broke their added addendums to the law.

Part of the reason for killing him was his "sabboth breaking"

Breaking the sabboth was a capital offence.
Paul said " some esteem one day higher than others,some see everyday the same"
He went on to say let each one leave the other alone.

You see the LAW OF LOVE ,trumps ordinances,or obeying ordinances to my merit or promotion.
That and the fact that the law giver is bigger than the ordinances of holding to the " rule book"

What changes is our heart at conversion.
Rules become indirect.
Devotion from love and adoration is different from a devotion of self regulation,consequences, and some inner " constitution"

It is illustrated in the wife.
Does she stay true due to consequences of getting caught and its lasting curse and destruction?
Or does she love him so much she casts down any notion,like Joseph,and run in fear of something so vile entering her heart and being.
IOW it breaks her heart to think of breaking his.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#22
How are they keeping the sabbath? As the Israelites did or some Christianised version?
Should we Do what Paul did?

Act 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia,
and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles
besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

-- here was A perfect chance to tell gentials not to follow the commandments,
but here he was teaching new gentials on the sabbath, who never before keep it.

Act 13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews
and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them,
persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together
to hear the word of God.

-why not preach the next day, why wait a whole week before speaking.

Act 16:12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of
Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.

Act 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side,
where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto
the women which resorted thither.

-
Act 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia,
they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them,
and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
-

Act 18:1 After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth;
Act 18:2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy,
with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart
from Rome and came unto them.
Act 18:3 And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them,
and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath,
and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Paul was preaching to Gentiles in Gentile cities on the Sabbath.
Recorded at least 84 times Paul preached to gential converts on the Sabbath day.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,709
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#23
If keeping the old jewish ways were what honored God and showed God we loved Him then we would still be doing them.

But they don't. And why don't they?

Because God has given us the Lord Jesus Christ. He is what the sabbath and the festivals were pointing to.


It doesn't make any sense to say you know Christ and you are a Christian but then revert back to the shadow of not knowing Him and not being a Christian.


I would say a Christian must be very careful to examine theirselves and their motives of why they desire to keep a sabbath and celebrate festivals.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

We don't work at the law in our own understanding to show God that we love Him. We love God by hearing His Son Jesus Christ.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Why would we receive this rest and then pretend we have not and go back to work in order to "prove" our love of God???

Isn't remaining in His Rest a better proof of our love of God? Isn't abiding in Christ a better proof of our love of God? Isn't the production of spiritual fruit in our lives a better proof of our love of God?
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#24
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints:
here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#25
I am not saying this is the case. Or this is what th Op experienced.

But 99.9 percent of the times people say anything about obedience to the law or speaks against it is in the context of we are required to do it to maintain salvation.

If you look at most of these threads in CC. (Law or sabbath threads) Most of the people advocating it are those who believe your not saved if you do not go to curch on Saturday, or you do go on Sunday. They are not attacking people who love to obey because they feel they need to (As paul said, people do it this way or that way, Do not condemn the other because each person does what is in his or her heart. And it would be sin for them not to do it) they are attacking the belief that obedience to the law is what makes us justified before God.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#26
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints:
here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
You know how many commands there are from God?

And Hod did Jesus say we fulfill this in our lives? By Following the law?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#27
It has a basis for anyone that desires to show God respect and love in choosing to do so, and THAT is in scripture itself.
So If I follow the sabbath I am following God. But If I take the sabbath as a daily offering. I am not?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#28
Excellent post! Unfortunately yes, there are many who will condemn you to hell for following the Sabbath (or not following it). All we can do is try to lovingly reason with them, show them the Scriptures, and pray that they change their mind.
Can you name a person that would condemn someone else to hell because they follow the sabbath?

Because I have been here for many years, and from what I see, it is usually the other way around.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#29
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one,
that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#31
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’
Yep every word.

There is more words than just those given moses. And many of those words are not even applicable today.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#32
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one,
that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Moses gave the level one has to obey in order to be right wiht God (not be cursed) what percentage of obedience did Moses say was required?
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#33
Yep every word.

There is more words than just those given moses.
And many of those words are not even applicable today.
Yep even the Oracles of God

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in [the mount Sina], and with our fathers:
who received the lively oracles [ to give unto us ] Acts 7:38

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way:chiefly, because that unto them
were committed [the oracles of God]. Romans 3:2

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need
that one teach you again which be the first principles of

[the oracles of God]; and are become such as have
need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12

Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing,
but the keeping of the commandments of God.
-

If any man speak, let him speak as [the oracles of God];
if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:

that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ,
to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:11
 
Mar 14, 2011
64,291
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#34
the Oracles of God

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in [the mount Sina], and with our fathers:
who received the lively oracles [ to give unto us ] Acts 7:38

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way:chiefly, because that unto them
were committed [the oracles of God]. Romans 3:2

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need
that one teach you again which be the first principles of

[the oracles of God]; and are become such as have
need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12

Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing,
but the keeping of the commandments of God.
-

If any man speak, let him speak as [the oracles of God];
if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:

that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ,
to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:11
Again, What % of the law was required?

There is a reason Jesus said no one is good but God. He used GODS requirment,

Have you met that requirement? Are you good? Are you God?
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
3,162
748
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#35
Its kinda like this;
A shop owner is tired of trash being thrown on the floor. He posta a sign.
ALL EMPLOYEES MUST PICK UP TRASH. FAILURE TO DO SO WILL RESULT IN TERMINATION.

Anew guy is hired and hasn't seen the sign. He is born again and concludes that Jesus is his actual boss and he has a habit of devotion THROUGH his work. He sees his behavior is a form of worship to his real boss Jesus.
This man picks up trash on the floor during his course of duties that morning. Never saw the new sign,picked up trash even though it was not part of his duties.

We have a different motivation than the law. A peculiar devotion.
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
673
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#36
Curious...What group(s) or church(s) or denomination(s) have this keeping of the law as part of their doctrine or teaching?
 

Embankment

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2017
673
184
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#37
Its kinda like this;
A shop owner is tired of trash being thrown on the floor. He posta a sign.
ALL EMPLOYEES MUST PICK UP TRASH. FAILURE TO DO SO WILL RESULT IN TERMINATION.

Anew guy is hired and hasn't seen the sign. He is born again and concludes that Jesus is his actual boss and he has a habit of devotion THROUGH his work. He sees his behavior is a form of worship to his real boss Jesus.
This man picks up trash on the floor during his course of duties that morning. Never saw the new sign,picked up trash even though it was not part of his duties.

We have a different motivation than the law. A peculiar devotion.
Moreover, if we miss some of the trash on the floor, we get to keep our job.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#38
As far as the observance of days is concerned, there is Christian liberty.
Actually Christ told the deciples to [ keep the Passover day] every year.
And for many years the new testement church keep it.

Christ Instructed Keeping Passover on the 14th
you can go read all about the “quartodeciman controversy.”

Exodus 12:14 “And this day shall be unto you for [a memorial];
and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations;
ye shall keep it [a feast] by an ordinance [for ever].

By the same token Sabbatarians should refrain from insisting
that Christians who fail to observe the sixth day sabbath are wrong.
So where in the bible is the Sabbath day the 6th day of the week?
Thy name, O Lord, endureth for ever; and thy memorial,
O Lord, throughout all generations

The Lord's Day is even more significant than the sabbath,
since it is after all "the Lord's Day".
One verse in the bible out of context and people claim it means sunday.
John was given a future vision, elseware called the day of the lord.

Christ is Lord of the Sabbath, not changed to sunday or the 8th day.
Read up on history to see who changed the day, it was not God. Daniel 7:25
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
291
205
43
davidclark.hearnow.com
#40
So If I follow the sabbath I am following God. But If I take the sabbath as a daily offering. I am not?


It has a basis for anyone that desires to show God respect and love in choosing to do so, and THAT is in scripture itself.
No, what I mean by that statement is that if one "choosing" to follow the Sabbath out of love is scriptural, as we are to love God and show Him reverence. If they choose to follow any law to love Him, that fine. They choose to do so in honor of God. And doesn't scripture say to love, honor, respect, serve, worship, praise God? Yup... so if they want to do that by following the Sabbath, that's fine. Why I said it's scripture itself; worshiping, serving...etc...

Just as if someone chooses to keep every day unto the Lord, as our rest is in Him now, as HE is our sabbath; that is just as good, as it's scriptural too.