Perspective On The Law/Grace

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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,155
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#41
No, what I mean by that statement is that if one "choosing" to follow the Sabbath out of love is scriptural, as we are to love God and show Him reverence. If they choose to follow any law to love Him, that fine. They choose to do so in honor of God. And doesn't scripture say to love, honor, respect, serve, worship, praise God? Yup... so if they want to do that by following the Sabbath, that's fine. Why I said it's scripture itself; worshiping, serving...etc...

Just as if someone chooses to keep every day unto the Lord, as our rest is in Him now, as HE is our sabbath; that is just as good, as it's scriptural too.
It seems to me every day is kept in the presence of God for any who have come to Jesus Christ. Often the individual may not be aware of it, but it is...... I hate not keeping Jesus in mind always, but H whips me back into shape when I get that distorted. Praise Jesus Christ, amen.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
291
205
43
davidclark.hearnow.com
#42
It seems to me every day is kept in the presence of God for any who have come to Jesus Christ. Often the individual may not be aware of it, but it is...... I hate not keeping Jesus in mind always, but H whips me back into shape when I get that distorted. Praise Jesus Christ, amen.
Yes, every day is for our Lord and Savior! Whether once chooses out of 'their love and heart' to follow a sabbath day, or whether or not one chooses to rest in Him daily. We have a wonderful God. Praise YESHUA!
 

YDo

Active member
Dec 9, 2018
151
60
28
#43
Greetings all in Yeshua,

I don't make many threads on here but I was in chat earlier and someone came in and basically rebuked anyone for keeping the Sabbath; saying it was the law and if you keep the Sabbath, u're no longer under grace. That our Sabbath is now in Jesus Christ, and it is now every day (which I agree).

Have we really stooped this low as a "Christian" society though, that we would tell someone that they are basically 'heathen' if they want to do something that was perfect and holy in the Old Testament?

Psa 19:7 The law (Torah) of the LORD is perfect.....

Yes, there will be many that come in this thread and say that the law made nothing perfect, or the law only pointed to sin, or that the law was a foreshadowing of grace, but why would we rebuke a child of the King for following the Sabbath, or wanting to keep any other law at that? I'm not here to discuss every law in the Word of God, but to mainly focus on the Sabbath day. Put whatever law you want and think on it in this same manner if you wish, but the Sabbath haters really grieve my spirit, and I believe that it grieves God too.

If a believer in Yeshua wishes to keep a Sabbath day, or follow a festival, then what is that to anyone else? Does this mean that God is going to love them more if they do? I think not! I think God loves us equally as fellow partakers of Christ and as Kings and Priests unto Him. But I do think that we can love God more ourselves, and I think if you are a child of the King, then if you wish to keep a Sabbath day, or a law for HIM, out of love and reverence, then God respects this, as you are showing your love towards Him. I know people that keep the Sabbath and the festivals, but they also know that it's not about God loving them more, or by which means they enter into heaven. They know they are saved through faith in Him and Him alone.

Tell me what is wrong with this? Tell me why many Christians completely and vehemently hate and rebuke this? What is wrong if someone loves God enough to sacrifice a day for Him? Not because they are forced to, or because God says, 'thou shalt'! Why can't we see that some people do it out of reverence to HIM? It is not about having to, but wanting to.

Why do we read our Bibles?
Why do we pray for others?
Why do we feed the hungry?
Why do we share the Gospel?
Why do we help our neighbors?
Why do we visit the prisoners?
Why do we give to the Church?

Why does one follow the Sabbath?

The answer is LOVE! We do these things because we LOVE HIM! Any Christian that I know will say that they do these things because they don't have to, but because they want to. They will say that works don't save you, but after you get saved, you do good words because you WANT to, because of what He did for you. Not that you are trying to please God somehow by making yourself perfect in and of yourselves.

If you Sabbath haters wish to judge and rebuke those that keep it out of LOVE, then stop reading. Stop studying. Stop praying. Stop feeding the hungry. Stop going to Church. Stop sharing the Gospel. After all, you don't want to be considered a heathen because you are doing something out of love for God... now do you?

People spend all week working, taking care of spouses and children. They deal with unexpected things in their lives, as well as taking kids to school events, etc... So they decide to take a day and set it apart for God. This is really a bad thing? Really? I'm sorry to be blunt, but that's just retarded thinking. I think it pleases God the Father when people will sacrifice a day to devote to Him, even though we live every day for Him. Face it, not ONE person in this chat forum truly devotes EVERY DAY PERFECTLY to the Lord. I hear all the time, "Every day is our Sabbath rest", but if I were a fly on the wall, I bet every day wouldn't be a Sabbath unto the Lord. Does one buy a gift on Fathers day for their father because they HAVE TO, or because they love him? Do you think your father is pleased if you do? BAM!!! Does he love you any more or any less because you did? BAM!!!

To rebuke or even hinder someone from keeping the Sabbath, or whatever law they choose to follow, in my opinion, is a disgrace to the name "Christian". If one wishes to abstain from pork, follow the Sabbath or another festival, then YAY for them and BOO for you for trying to tell them they are wrong.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

I don't personally have or keep a Sabbath day either, and I LOVE pork, so I'm not trying to be biased. I don't think God would love me more or less if I kept it or not. But I do think that by me doing so, would show my love for Yeshua, just as feeding the hungry would, or clothing the naked, or praying for my brothers and sisters. It makes nobody any better or any less if they do these things or not, but I do think it shows God how much we love Him. And yes, some people love God more than others. I can tell by their actions and deeds, and He knows as well.

I don't see anyone that I know that keep any laws, Sabbath, or any other, going around saying they are better than me because they do them and I don't. Do some do this? More than likely, but they are just deceived and arrogant and need someone to teach them to be humble.

There are two extremes I see in the forum and in chat.

1. If you don't follow the law, then something is wrong with you.
2. If you do follow the law, then something is wrong with you.

Why can't it be based on an individuals love towards Yeshua and not about a man made law that there is no law?

I would suggest minding our own business and let people serve the Lord the way they want to serve Him. To love the Lord the way they want to love Him. To revere the Lord the way they want to revere the Lord. I truly think God frowns upon those that belittle someone else just because they choose to follow a law out of LOVE and RESPECT.

2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.

I myself would place keeping the Sabbath day in there as a good work; not based on a law that says one MUST, but a law of love written on our hearts that says, "I want to".
I like that.

Friends who are SDA agree with the Colossians 2 text and will refer to that when someone tells them the old laws don't apply anymore. And I also agree that it is a man made law that says there is no law. If there was no law Jesus would have made that crystal.
 
Mar 14, 2011
64,193
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#44
No, what I mean by that statement is that if one "choosing" to follow the Sabbath out of love is scriptural, as we are to love God and show Him reverence. If they choose to follow any law to love Him, that fine. They choose to do so in honor of God. And doesn't scripture say to love, honor, respect, serve, worship, praise God? Yup... so if they want to do that by following the Sabbath, that's fine. Why I said it's scripture itself; worshiping, serving...etc...

Just as if someone chooses to keep every day unto the Lord, as our rest is in Him now, as HE is our sabbath; that is just as good, as it's scriptural too.
I agree with this

But again, 99% of the time this is not the issue
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#45
There is a subtly involved with groups who subscribe to observance to the Sabbath, festivals, and the Law of Moses, suggesting that to do so is to love God, and therefore if I am not doing so, what does that mean? It means I am not loving God. So while observance isn't for salvation, it is for fellowship or relationship. Its how we serve God, they say.

They use their liberty, under the guise of love, to enslave. How does it honor God to observe something that foreshadowed Christ, when He is now risen sitting at the Father's right hand? A law, festival, or day that pointed to Christ should be observed to show God love? Isn't it more loving then to take Communion that actually celebrates and praises Him for His work?

I know this topic is about Christian liberty, but what does our walk look like in the New Covenant? Is it observance to the Torah (and all its rules and regulations, feasts, etc) or by faith, as the Lord sanctifies us (and not morality)? Even so, what pleases God? Is it not the good works He has prepared before the foundation of the world, for us to walk into by faith (saved unto good works)?

We surrender, and submit to His will. We walk in faith to the things He has called and chosen us for. Our righteousness is imputed by faith, and our day to day righteousness is a process of sanctification that is a result of revelation. Revelation in who we are in Christ, and in our fellowship with the Lord (even His chastisement).

You want to love God? Worship and praise Him, from a place of gratitude. You wish to please God? Walk in faith, step out in faith. Walk in His will for your life.

There are many things to garner from the Torah, beneficial things, but we do not serve in the oldness of the letter, but the newness of the spirit. Our servitude is not driven by punishment but gratitude, love and reward. Where the Law was a ministry of condemnation, in Christ there is no condemnation.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#46
No, what I mean by that statement is that if one "choosing" to follow the Sabbath out of love is scriptural, as we are to love God and show Him reverence. If they choose to follow any law to love Him, that fine. They choose to do so in honor of God. And doesn't scripture say to love, honor, respect, serve, worship, praise God? Yup... so if they want to do that by following the Sabbath, that's fine. Why I said it's scripture itself; worshiping, serving...etc...

Just as if someone chooses to keep every day unto the Lord, as our rest is in Him now, as HE is our sabbath; that is just as good, as it's scriptural too.
You paint a picture of fantasy in comparison to the truth Epiales. Respectfully, many here have seen the works of those professing love in observance to the Law of Moses, Sabbath, and festivals. Peter was clear in his defense of Paul and Barnabas in Acts 15 (and what was required of Gentiles). Why do they try to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples that neither "our fathers nor we were able to bear?"

The reason I said that you've painted a picture of fantasy is that while there may be a case of someone falling under the scenario you've presented, such is not often the case. More often than not it is of a legalistic nature. It is an intertwining of covenants. It is a lukewarm approach of mixing grace and law, making void the two by definition.

I understand the liberty that you express, but in such liberty have some fooled others into their so called obedience. This is where they err, that they would define their "expression of love" as obedience, and therefore judge others as a result (making them disobedient).

I appreciate your defense of liberty, but let us not be naive to the undermining of God's grace and the New Covenant. Yes, even the means by which we serve now, in Christ, by the Spirit, and through the Father's providence, and sovereignty. It can be subtle the ways in which self-righteousness creeps into our faith, but we must remember that the promises of God in Christ Jesus are "Yes" and "Amen." A matter of faith.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,509
656
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#47
You paint a picture of fantasy in comparison to the truth Epiales. Respectfully, many here have seen the works of those professing love in observance to the Law of Moses, Sabbath, and festivals. Peter was clear in his defense of Paul and Barnabas in Acts 15 (and what was required of Gentiles). Why do they try to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples that neither "our fathers nor we were able to bear?"

The reason I said that you've painted a picture of fantasy is that while there may be a case of someone falling under the scenario you've presented, such is not often the case. More often than not it is of a legalistic nature. It is an intertwining of covenants. It is a lukewarm approach of mixing grace and law, making void the two by definition.

I understand the liberty that you express, but in such liberty have some fooled others into their so called obedience. This is where they err, that they would define their "expression of love" as obedience, and therefore judge others as a result (making them disobedient).

I appreciate your defense of liberty, but let us not be naive to the undermining of God's grace and the New Covenant. Yes, even the means by which we serve now, in Christ, by the Spirit, and through the Father's providence, and sovereignty. It can be subtle the ways in which self-righteousness creeps into our faith, but we must remember that the promises of God in Christ Jesus are "Yes" and "Amen." A matter of faith.
LOL! "You paint a picture of fantasy" reminded me of this.



:ROFL: Please don't take it personal Epiales, I was being poetic. lol
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
1,962
547
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#48
Actually Christ told the deciples to [ keep the Passover day] every year.
And for many years the new testement church keep it.


Christ Instructed Keeping Passover on the 14th
you can go read all about the “quartodeciman controversy.”

Exodus 12:14 “And this day shall be unto you for [a memorial];
and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations;
ye shall keep it [a feast] by an ordinance [for ever].



So where in the bible is the Sabbath day the 6th day of the week?
Thy name, O Lord, endureth for ever; and thy memorial,
O Lord, throughout all generations



One verse in the bible out of context and people claim it means sunday.
John was given a future vision, elseware called the day of the lord.

Christ is Lord of the Sabbath, not changed to sunday or the 8th day.
Read up on history to see who changed the day, it was not God. Daniel 7:25
Weren’t they Jewish though. When confronting people about Gentiles having to be circumcised, Paul was rather indignant at the suggestion. As was Peter in a vision taught that we don’t need to be stringent about clean and unclean.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
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#49
Weren’t they Jewish though. When confronting people about Gentiles having to be circumcised,
Paul was rather indignant at the suggestion. As was Peter in a vision taught that we don’t need
to be stringent about clean and unclean.
"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call
heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things
which are written in the law and in the prophets:"

If Paul taught against the law (which is not true) then he certainly wouldn't have
worshiped by believing those things written therein. Paul was not a deceiver by
opposing his own beliefs that he taught to others.

Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come.
For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews. after Acts 13, Acts 26:7

-here Paul says that his hope to come, is in the promises given to the twelve tribes.

4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Romans 9:4

-the promises and the covenants of God, all the sonship and the glory, belong to Israel.

Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that
I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

-No burnt offerings or sacrifices orginaly given, but to obey his voice.

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

-no good standing with our Savior if you do not believe Moses and the prophets.

1. Paul was a Pharisee. A teacher of God's law. He continued to
call himself a Pharisee even after joining the church. (Acts 23:6)

Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees,
called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, descended from Pharisees.
I stand on trial because of the hope of the resurrection of the dead."

2. Paul loved God's law. It was a delight to him.
(Romans 7:22) For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being,

3. Paul called God's law holy.
(Romans 7:12) So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy,
righteous and good.

4. Paul knew that breaking God's law is the very definition of sin.
(1 John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:
for sin is the transgression of the law.

5. Paul said that we don't nullify the law of God by our faith in Jesus Christ.
(Romans 3:31) Do we nullify the law by this faith? By no means!
Rather we uphold the law.

6. Paul often read from the scriptures on the sabbath (which is kept by the apostles 84
times in the book of Acts). And the only scriptures at that time was the old testament.

(Acts 17:2) As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue,
and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures.

7. Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses when he first joined the church.
(And ironically, he's still being accused today.)

(Act 21:21) They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among
the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children
or live according to our customs.

8. These accusations were shown to be false.

(Acts 21:24) Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses,
so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth
in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law.

9. When Paul was accused of forsaking the law of Moses, he always denied this,
and said he does live according to the law.

(Acts 24:14) But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call
a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law
and written in the Prophets,

10. Paul said that those who refuse to submit to the law are "carnal minded"
and hostile to God.
(Romans 8:7-8) The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit
to God's law, nor can it do so. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

11. Paul continued to travel to Jerusalem to celebrate God's feast days
after joining the church.
(Acts 18:21) But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that
cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

12. Paul often quoted from Moses's writings, and cited it as authority.
(1 Corinthians 9:9-10) Do I say this merely on human authority?
Doesn’t the Law say the same thing? For it is written in the Law of Moses:
“Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God
is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us,
because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest.

13. Paul claimed that ALL scripture is good for instruction in righteousness,
and given through inspiration of God. He never singled out Moses' writings.
(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking,
correcting and training in righteousness,

14. Paul mentions that priests are still offering sacrifices to God
even after Christ's death on the cross.
(Hebrews 8:3-4) Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices,
and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer.

If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests
who offer the gifts prescribed by the law.

15. The most well known teaching in Paul's letters is the one where he says
"you are not under law but under grace".
Millions of people quote this scripture, they almost always leave out the scripture
that immediately follows it. Watch what happens when you add the context....

(Romans 6:14-16) For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under
the law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law
but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to
someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are
slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

16. Paul told the Colossians not to let anyone judge them because they were observing
God's sabbaths and feasts because these appointed times are "a shadow of things to come".
Meaning they reveal future events, just like the passover foreshadowed Christ's
sacrifice on the cross.(Colossians 2:16-17)

17. Paul never repremanded anyone for obeying God's law. Instead, he repremanded
new gentile converts, the Galatians, who were trying to be justified by the law,
instead of faith in Jesus Christ.
(Galatians 2:16) Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith
in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by
faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

18. The Galatians, who Paul was repremanding for trying to be justified by the law,
were going back to serving other gods after they were circumcised. This is why Paul
had to explain that the works of the law can't earn your salvation.
(Galatians 4: 8-11) Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those
who by nature are not gods. But now that you know God—or rather are known by God
—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish
to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months
and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

- those weak and miserable forces where not Gods Holy convocations.

19. Paul understood that obedience to God's law is a natural result of salvation.
Once you become a true christian, God writes His law on your heart and mind,
and causes you to walk in them.(Hebrews 10:16)

(Hebrews 10:16) "This is the covenant I will make with them after that time,
says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds."

20. Paul's letters come with a warning label attached to them.
(2 Peter 3:16-17) He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these
matters.His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant
and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.


Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you
may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
291
205
43
davidclark.hearnow.com
#50
You paint a picture of fantasy in comparison to the truth Epiales. Respectfully, many here have seen the works of those professing love in observance to the Law of Moses, Sabbath, and festivals. Peter was clear in his defense of Paul and Barnabas in Acts 15 (and what was required of Gentiles). Why do they try to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples that neither "our fathers nor we were able to bear?"

The reason I said that you've painted a picture of fantasy is that while there may be a case of someone falling under the scenario you've presented, such is not often the case. More often than not it is of a legalistic nature. It is an intertwining of covenants. It is a lukewarm approach of mixing grace and law, making void the two by definition.

I understand the liberty that you express, but in such liberty have some fooled others into their so called obedience. This is where they err, that they would define their "expression of love" as obedience, and therefore judge others as a result (making them disobedient).

I appreciate your defense of liberty, but let us not be naive to the undermining of God's grace and the New Covenant. Yes, even the means by which we serve now, in Christ, by the Spirit, and through the Father's providence, and sovereignty. It can be subtle the ways in which self-righteousness creeps into our faith, but we must remember that the promises of God in Christ Jesus are "Yes" and "Amen." A matter of faith.
Well regardless of those that abuse it and put people under bondage, our liberty is still part of the life Christ has given us. I will always stand for the rights of liberty to choose without condemnation and judgment when it comes to how one wishes to worship Yeshua. To me, worshiping God and honoring Him is not a fantasy. Yes, while there might be truth in what you say on those that confuse or mix covenants, there are those that do understand their liberty, and it is to those of whom I speak of. We have that right, and should not be belittled because we choose to... or not do...
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,697
2,006
113
#51
No, what I mean by that statement is that if one "choosing" to follow the Sabbath out of love is scriptural, as we are to love God and show Him reverence. If they choose to follow any law to love Him, that fine. They choose to do so in honor of God. And doesn't scripture say to love, honor, respect, serve, worship, praise God? Yup... so if they want to do that by following the Sabbath, that's fine. Why I said it's scripture itself; worshiping, serving...etc...

Just as if someone chooses to keep every day unto the Lord, as our rest is in Him now, as HE is our sabbath; that is just as good, as it's scriptural too.
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

How is working at your favorite portions of the law supposed to be out of "love" for God?
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#52
Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

How is working at your favorite portions of the law supposed to be out of "love" for God?
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments:
which if [a man do], he [God] shall live in them: I am the Lord.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding
have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,697
2,006
113
#53
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments:
which if [a man do], he [God] shall live in them: I am the Lord.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding
have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever
Romans 3:10-23
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,655
1,871
113
#54
Yes, while there might be truth in what you say on those that confuse or mix covenants, there are those that do understand their liberty, and it is to those of whom I speak of. We have that right, and should not be belittled because we choose to... or not do...


I'll just point out again, there is a difference between "minding our own business", and "intentionally entering a debate."

We cannot SEEK DEBATE AND DISAGREEMENT, and then accuse someone of belittling us when they disagree.


Debate & Indignity
A. If you enter a debate, you are ASKING to have your views challenged.
B. When you ASK to have your views challenged, it is no sin for someone to challenge them.
C. Therefore, no moral indignity applies.

...
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
#55
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

How is working at your favorite portions of the law supposed to be out of "love" for God?
Because you are doing so out of LOVE, and not REQUIREMENT! Do you buy your father a fathers day present or get them a fathers day card because you have faith in your father? No, because you love your father.

Do you buy your wife roses on your anniversary because you have 'faith' in her? It's because you "love" her. *and I hope you faith in her too :D ... just sayin*

I do understand that there are those that follow parts of the law because they believe that it is a requirement still for us, b/c we are grafted into the family, but not all people are like that. I know many that follow the sabbath, and other Jewish festivals out of a heart of worship and love to God the Father, and not as a requirement for salvation, nor for thinking they are better than others b/c they do so. How is it so wrong that someone wants to worship God in this way? And for us to tell them they are wrong is inappropriate, as God knows their love is from a heart of worship and "I want to..." not "I have too..."

So let me ask you the same:

How is working at presenting your wife roses for an anniversary wrong because you love her?

How is working at presenting your father a fathers day card/gift wrong because you love your father?

So how is keeping a Sabbath, a day unto the Lord, wrong because you love Jesus Christ?

All are acts of love, and NONE are required!
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
291
205
43
davidclark.hearnow.com
#56
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

How is working at your favorite portions of the law supposed to be out of "love" for God?
Because you are doing so out of LOVE, and not REQUIREMENT! Do you buy your father a fathers day present or get them a fathers day card because you have faith in your father? No, because you love your father.

Do you buy your wife roses on your anniversary because you have 'faith' in her? It's because you "love" her. *and I hope you faith in her too :D ... just sayin*

I do understand that there are those that follow parts of the law because they believe that it is a requirement still for us, b/c we are grafted into the family, but not all people are like that. I know many that follow the sabbath, and other Jewish festivals out of a heart of worship and love to God the Father, and not as a requirement for salvation, nor for thinking they are better than others b/c they do so. How is it so wrong that someone wants to worship God in this way? And for us to tell them they are wrong is inappropriate, as God knows their love is from a heart of worship and "I want to..." not "I have too..."

So let me ask you the same:

How is working at presenting your wife roses for an anniversary wrong because you love her?

How is working at presenting your father a fathers day card/gift wrong because you love your father?

So how is keeping a Sabbath, a day unto the Lord, wrong because you love Jesus Christ?

All are acts of love, and NONE are required!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,155
3,087
113
#57
I had wanted to give you the heart of friendship, but also the ribbon, then the second came up, so now you know.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
291
205
43
davidclark.hearnow.com
#58
I'll just point out again, there is a difference between "minding our own business", and "intentionally entering a debate."

We cannot SEEK DEBATE AND DISAGREEMENT, and then accuse someone of belittling us when they disagree.


Debate & Indignity
A. If you enter a debate, you are ASKING to have your views challenged.
B. When you ASK to have your views challenged, it is no sin for someone to challenge them.
C. Therefore, no moral indignity applies.

...
And yet again, the thread is about someone that wants to do something out of LOVE, and not for a requirement, nor for salvation. This is not a topic of 'debate'. If I wanted the 'debate' about HAVING to or NOT HAVING to, then yup, that's debatable. I am quite sure there are plenty of 'debatable' threads out there concerning the law vs grace, but this wasn't intended for that.

The question was:

Tell me why many Christians completely and vehemently hate and rebuke this? What is wrong if someone loves God enough to sacrifice a day for Him? Not because they are forced to, or because God says, 'thou shalt'! Why can't we see that some people do it out of reverence to HIM? It is not about having to, but wanting to.

Honestly, there is no debate here. If one goes against the very idea of loving and honoring God because one chooses to do so, then they are ultimately going against scripture.

Mat 22:37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment.
Mat 22:39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."

 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,697
2,006
113
#60
Because you are doing so out of LOVE, and not REQUIREMENT! Do you buy your father a fathers day present or get them a fathers day card because you have faith in your father? No, because you love your father.

Do you buy your wife roses on your anniversary because you have 'faith' in her? It's because you "love" her. *and I hope you faith in her too :D ... just sayin*

I do understand that there are those that follow parts of the law because they believe that it is a requirement still for us, b/c we are grafted into the family, but not all people are like that. I know many that follow the sabbath, and other Jewish festivals out of a heart of worship and love to God the Father, and not as a requirement for salvation, nor for thinking they are better than others b/c they do so. How is it so wrong that someone wants to worship God in this way? And for us to tell them they are wrong is inappropriate, as God knows their love is from a heart of worship and "I want to..." not "I have too..."

So let me ask you the same:

How is working at presenting your wife roses for an anniversary wrong because you love her?

How is working at presenting your father a fathers day card/gift wrong because you love your father?

So how is keeping a Sabbath, a day unto the Lord, wrong because you love Jesus Christ?

All are acts of love, and NONE are required!
So when you obey the speed limit you do it because you love the government? No.

When you refrain from bringing firearms into the airport you do so because you love the TSA? No.

You pay for your gas after pumping because you love the gas station owner and all of their employees? Maybe, but probably not the primary reason.


Or do you do these things for a much simpler reason? The reason being that the law says so.


There is no law saying you must present your wife roses on her anniversary.

There is no law saying you must give your father a fathers day card.

So when a person goes above and beyond what the law says then it could be showing love.


There is a law that says a certain people must keep the sabbath. It is not love to work at the law.


How is it possible that you think it is showing love by working at a law that the Lord Jesus Christ has given us Rest from???


Don't confuse this with setting apart time to worship the Lord. I totally understand that a person does that out of love.