Perspective On The Law/Grace

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maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#61
Honestly, there is no debate here. If one goes against the very idea of loving and honoring God because one chooses to do so, then they are ultimately going against scripture.

Mat 22:37 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the great and first commandment.
Mat 22:39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets."
Of course there's a debate here.

(Btw, please notice that I've got you debating about whether or not we're debating. I think my work here is done.)

...
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
#62
Or do you do these things for a much simpler reason? The reason being that the law says so.

Don't confuse this with setting apart time to worship the Lord. I totally understand that a person does that out of love.
Even excluding the "LAW"... Why so against someone taking a day for Yeshua? Let's completely remove a law for anyone in the Word. What's the issue? Someone does it b/c they want to?

Do you celebrate birthdays? Anniversaries? Christmas? Or ANY other day? If so, then you're evil and wrong and I need to tell you how awful you are. Right?

Rom 4:15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.

So by biblical standards, anyone that wants to keep a Sabbath day is NOT in transgression, since there is no law, if they are doing so our of love and reverence to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and not for their salvation. And the law bringing wrath? That's correct.... in two ways.

1. You cannot follow the law 100 percent because if you fail in one, you fail in all, and it's only through Christ that one will EVER be justified and saved; apart from the law.

2. If you try and please God by following the law, you will fail EVERY time, thus, condeming yourselves; as u will never meet God's standard in keeping the law.

Did God give you the right to tell people if they keep a Sabbath that they are sinning? In transgression? When God simply tells us that there is nothing wrong with it.

And I"m not confused... You are spot on about something finally...

Code:
setting apart time to worship the Lord.  I totally understand that a person does that out of love.
So don't judge someone that wishes to do something out of love... since you "totally understand"
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
#63
Of course there's a debate here.

(Btw, please notice that I've got you debating about whether or not we're debating. I think my work here is done.)

...
U're not debating, u're being judgmental about someone who wishes to keep a Sabbath day because they choose to show the Lord they love Him. Difference b/w 'debate' and 'judgmental'...
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#64
U're not debating, u're being judgmental about someone who wishes to keep a Sabbath day because they choose to show the Lord they love Him. Difference b/w 'debate' and 'judgmental'...
Actually, I was just being silly and making a joke.

...
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#66
Well regardless of those that abuse it and put people under bondage, our liberty is still part of the life Christ has given us. I will always stand for the rights of liberty to choose without condemnation and judgment when it comes to how one wishes to worship Yeshua. To me, worshiping God and honoring Him is not a fantasy. Yes, while there might be truth in what you say on those that confuse or mix covenants, there are those that do understand their liberty, and it is to those of whom I speak of. We have that right, and should not be belittled because we choose to... or not do...
Where do you find that not eating pork, for example, is an expression of love towards God? Are these not carnal commandments (as it says in Hebrews), only meant until the time of reformation? There is now a new covenant, with a new priesthood, and as a result with a changing in law (Hebrews 7:12). I don't see how observance of such things is an act of worship, an act of love, or anything of the sort.

I understand setting a day aside, or fasting and prayer (fellowship with God) and can find unity with you in that regard, but the legalism, and by necessity condemnation that results, I cannot define as liberating. So many people do not truly grasp the reconciliation that Christ purchased for us. It is wonderful that a person wishes to please God, and God does see the heart, but how mistaken they are to think it is through observance to carnal commandments. To think, in Acts, the disciples even say that they gave no such commandment.

We have liberty to do that which is right, not an encouragement to do that which is wrong or incorrect. While His grace is sufficient, His yoke is easy and burden light. Someone may choose to do something in honor of God, and again God sees the heart, but it does mean that the action itself really is an act of love, more so the intent.

One might be better off seeking the Lord's will for their life to please God instead of submitting themselves to rules and regulations.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
#67
Where do you find that not eating pork, for example, is an expression of love towards God? Are these not carnal commandments (as it says in Hebrews), only meant until the time of reformation? There is now a new covenant, with a new priesthood, and as a result with a changing in law (Hebrews 7:12). I don't see how observance of such things is an act of worship, an act of love, or anything of the sort.

I understand setting a day aside, or fasting and prayer (fellowship with God) and can find unity with you in that regard, but the legalism, and by necessity condemnation that results, I cannot define as liberating. So many people do not truly grasp the reconciliation that Christ purchased for us. It is wonderful that a person wishes to please God, and God does see the heart, but how mistaken they are to think it is through observance to carnal commandments. To think, in Acts, the disciples even say that they gave no such commandment.

We have liberty to do that which is right, not an encouragement to do that which is wrong or incorrect. While His grace is sufficient, His yoke is easy and burden light. Someone may choose to do something in honor of God, and again God sees the heart, but it does mean that the action itself really is an act of love, more so the intent.

One might be better off seeking the Lord's will for their life to please God instead of submitting themselves to rules and regulations.
Nowhere does it tell us that it's an expression of love to not eat pork... I will say this though... pork isn't really good for the body anyway. There are reasons for this. I love pork and I eat it all the time. Many of the commands in the Torah are for our personal benefit, and if anyone wishes to follow them, there should be no issue, as long as they are not cramming it down our throats and trying to belittle us for doing the opposite.

Now the sabbath, to me is different! That is a time that one wishes to set apart for honor and love of Yeshua. Has nothing to do with eating pork or anything else. Again, what is so wrong with taking one day out of the week to devote it to the Lord. Busy with work, kids, wife, family, and friends, and take a day for God... There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and if anyone says otherwise, they are being silly for thinking it's wrong to serve God in that capacity. It's like saying, I don't have to give any time with my wife because my wife knows I love her. I don't have to do anything for her because she knows that I love her. No, your 'actions' prove to her that you love her.

Again, the sabbath isn't something that will save anyone or make anyone better than anyone else by following it, but it is an expression of love to the one whom we serve; Yahweh, the God of this universe, and Christ His Son.

As far as the action not being an act of love, I completely disagree. Don't show or pay any attention to your wife and see how that works. The sabbath is not a rule or regulation to someone that wishes to do keep it. Is it for many? Yup! They are wrong if they keep it for that reason, but for someone who wishes to honor God on the Sabbath, it IS an act of love; not a rule, regulation, or obligation.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#68
Nowhere does it tell us that it's an expression of love to not eat pork... I will say this though... pork isn't really good for the body anyway. There are reasons for this. I love pork and I eat it all the time. Many of the commands in the Torah are for our personal benefit, and if anyone wishes to follow them, there should be no issue, as long as they are not cramming it down our throats and trying to belittle us for doing the opposite.

Now the sabbath, to me is different! That is a time that one wishes to set apart for honor and love of Yeshua. Has nothing to do with eating pork or anything else. Again, what is so wrong with taking one day out of the week to devote it to the Lord. Busy with work, kids, wife, family, and friends, and take a day for God... There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and if anyone says otherwise, they are being silly for thinking it's wrong to serve God in that capacity. It's like saying, I don't have to give any time with my wife because my wife knows I love her. I don't have to do anything for her because she knows that I love her. No, your 'actions' prove to her that you love her.

Again, the sabbath isn't something that will save anyone or make anyone better than anyone else by following it, but it is an expression of love to the one whom we serve; Yahweh, the God of this universe, and Christ His Son.

As far as the action not being an act of love, I completely disagree. Don't show or pay any attention to your wife and see how that works. The sabbath is not a rule or regulation to someone that wishes to do keep it. Is it for many? Yup! They are wrong if they keep it for that reason, but for someone who wishes to honor God on the Sabbath, it IS an act of love; not a rule, regulation, or obligation.
Thanks for engaging in this discussion. Devoting time to God is a good and honorable endeavor, because it is what Christ through His blood has given us access to. To draw near to God.
 

TastyWallet

Junior Member
Aug 18, 2016
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#69
Can you name a person that would condemn someone else to hell because they follow the sabbath?

Because I have been here for many years, and from what I see, it is usually the other way around.
Do you participate in the chatroom? We get some....interesting people there sometimes. Unfortunately, I don't have any names, but this was something I've seen in the chatroom on more than one occasion. It's always been from a guest (they have ~ in front of their name).
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
#70
Thanks for engaging in this discussion. Devoting time to God is a good and honorable endeavor, because it is what Christ through His blood has given us access to. To draw near to God.
Amen! It boils down to a heart issue in the end. Are we following the Sabbath to please Him? To make ourselves better than others? To make us think God will love us more? If any of them, then the heart is not in the right place. You follow it b/c you 'want to' to do in a way to show your love towards Him, and likewise, because of Yeshua's death, burial, and resurrection, those that choose to not follow it, but put their rest in Him daily and worship Him by other means; do all you do for His glory. This is a personal lifestyle and should not in any aspect be judged by another person, as we have no biblical standard to tell someone else how to serve and worship Him. We each worship our Abba in many different way, and not always the same method.

Thank you for your participation! May God truly bless you and those whom you love.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
#71
Do you participate in the chatroom? We get some....interesting people there sometimes. Unfortunately, I don't have any names, but this was something I've seen in the chatroom on more than one occasion. It's always been from a guest (they have ~ in front of their name).
Hey there...

I have heard people come in the chat and tell people if they don't follow the Sabbath then they are in violation of God's will and will not enter into the Kingdom, as they are breaking an eternal law of God. It's sad, but it does happen more than often. We are told we are all deceived and led by false teachers and are denying Christ if we fail to keep His commandment. Sigh!!!!!
 
Oct 8, 2018
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#72
Greetings all in Yeshua,

I don't make many threads on here but I was in chat earlier and someone came in and basically rebuked anyone for keeping the Sabbath; saying it was the law and if you keep the Sabbath, u're no longer under grace. That our Sabbath is now in Jesus Christ, and it is now every day (which I agree).

Have we really stooped this low as a "Christian" society though, that we would tell someone that they are basically 'heathen' if they want to do something that was perfect and holy in the Old Testament?

Psa 19:7 The law (Torah) of the LORD is perfect.....

Yes, there will be many that come in this thread and say that the law made nothing perfect, or the law only pointed to sin, or that the law was a foreshadowing of grace, but why would we rebuke a child of the King for following the Sabbath, or wanting to keep any other law at that? I'm not here to discuss every law in the Word of God, but to mainly focus on the Sabbath day. Put whatever law you want and think on it in this same manner if you wish, but the Sabbath haters really grieve my spirit, and I believe that it grieves God too.

If a believer in Yeshua wishes to keep a Sabbath day, or follow a festival, then what is that to anyone else? Does this mean that God is going to love them more if they do? I think not! I think God loves us equally as fellow partakers of Christ and as Kings and Priests unto Him. But I do think that we can love God more ourselves, and I think if you are a child of the King, then if you wish to keep a Sabbath day, or a law for HIM, out of love and reverence, then God respects this, as you are showing your love towards Him. I know people that keep the Sabbath and the festivals, but they also know that it's not about God loving them more, or by which means they enter into heaven. They know they are saved through faith in Him and Him alone.

Tell me what is wrong with this? Tell me why many Christians completely and vehemently hate and rebuke this? What is wrong if someone loves God enough to sacrifice a day for Him? Not because they are forced to, or because God says, 'thou shalt'! Why can't we see that some people do it out of reverence to HIM? It is not about having to, but wanting to.

Why do we read our Bibles?
Why do we pray for others?
Why do we feed the hungry?
Why do we share the Gospel?
Why do we help our neighbors?
Why do we visit the prisoners?
Why do we give to the Church?

Why does one follow the Sabbath?

The answer is LOVE! We do these things because we LOVE HIM! Any Christian that I know will say that they do these things because they don't have to, but because they want to. They will say that works don't save you, but after you get saved, you do good words because you WANT to, because of what He did for you. Not that you are trying to please God somehow by making yourself perfect in and of yourselves.

If you Sabbath haters wish to judge and rebuke those that keep it out of LOVE, then stop reading. Stop studying. Stop praying. Stop feeding the hungry. Stop going to Church. Stop sharing the Gospel. After all, you don't want to be considered a heathen because you are doing something out of love for God... now do you?

People spend all week working, taking care of spouses and children. They deal with unexpected things in their lives, as well as taking kids to school events, etc... So they decide to take a day and set it apart for God. This is really a bad thing? Really? I'm sorry to be blunt, but that's just retarded thinking. I think it pleases God the Father when people will sacrifice a day to devote to Him, even though we live every day for Him. Face it, not ONE person in this chat forum truly devotes EVERY DAY PERFECTLY to the Lord. I hear all the time, "Every day is our Sabbath rest", but if I were a fly on the wall, I bet every day wouldn't be a Sabbath unto the Lord. Does one buy a gift on Fathers day for their father because they HAVE TO, or because they love him? Do you think your father is pleased if you do? BAM!!! Does he love you any more or any less because you did? BAM!!!

To rebuke or even hinder someone from keeping the Sabbath, or whatever law they choose to follow, in my opinion, is a disgrace to the name "Christian". If one wishes to abstain from pork, follow the Sabbath or another festival, then YAY for them and BOO for you for trying to tell them they are wrong.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

I don't personally have or keep a Sabbath day either, and I LOVE pork, so I'm not trying to be biased. I don't think God would love me more or less if I kept it or not. But I do think that by me doing so, would show my love for Yeshua, just as feeding the hungry would, or clothing the naked, or praying for my brothers and sisters. It makes nobody any better or any less if they do these things or not, but I do think it shows God how much we love Him. And yes, some people love God more than others. I can tell by their actions and deeds, and He knows as well.

I don't see anyone that I know that keep any laws, Sabbath, or any other, going around saying they are better than me because they do them and I don't. Do some do this? More than likely, but they are just deceived and arrogant and need someone to teach them to be humble.

There are two extremes I see in the forum and in chat.

1. If you don't follow the law, then something is wrong with you.
2. If you do follow the law, then something is wrong with you.

Why can't it be based on an individuals love towards Yeshua and not about a man made law that there is no law?

I would suggest minding our own business and let people serve the Lord the way they want to serve Him. To love the Lord the way they want to love Him. To revere the Lord the way they want to revere the Lord. I truly think God frowns upon those that belittle someone else just because they choose to follow a law out of LOVE and RESPECT.

2Co 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.

I myself would place keeping the Sabbath day in there as a good work; not based on a law that says one MUST, but a law of love written on our hearts that says, "I want to".
Hello Epiales. Wow, this is wonderful. I respect the enthusiasm a lot. Let me help you out:

- First, you are right, the law is not done anyway with and love for G-d comes 1st. Once we have an uncircumcised heart, only then can we serve G-d
- Second only Jews are OBLIGATED to keep Shabbat and all the LAWS permitted on Shabbat. Gentiles are more than welcome to honor Shabbat, but technically, they are obligated to keep it nor fulfill it
- 3rd, great in "keeping" Shabbat, but tell me, what does it mean to keep Shabbat? If you understand the Holy Language of Hebrew and the text of the Torah, you will easily find, that there are MANY laws within Shabbat that need to be kept in order to KEEP Shabbat.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
#73
Hello Epiales. Wow, this is wonderful. I respect the enthusiasm a lot. Let me help you out:

- First, you are right, the law is not done anyway with and love for G-d comes 1st. Once we have an uncircumcised heart, only then can we serve G-d
- Second only Jews are OBLIGATED to keep Shabbat and all the LAWS permitted on Shabbat. Gentiles are more than welcome to honor Shabbat, but technically, they are obligated to keep it nor fulfill it
- 3rd, great in "keeping" Shabbat, but tell me, what does it mean to keep Shabbat? If you understand the Holy Language of Hebrew and the text of the Torah, you will easily find, that there are MANY laws within Shabbat that need to be kept in order to KEEP Shabbat.
I agree.. the original שבת has many different areas; I believe 39? It would take much preparation and devotion to do so anyway. I would be in awe of someone that kept it 100 percent precisely. Not in awe of boasting of what they do, but their dedication in serving the Lord b/c of their love for Him. I am learning the Hebrew language currently, and doing many studies pertaining to Jewish tradition, Torah, Paul, and many other things. I personally do not keep the שבת, and neither do I condemn a person that wishes to keep it based on their love for Him. The Torah must not be intertwined with grace, but that doesn't mean that one cannot follow it to the best of their ability today if they choose to honor Yahweh in that manner.
 
Oct 8, 2018
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#74
I agree.. the original שבת has many different areas; I believe 39? It would take much preparation and devotion to do so anyway. I would be in awe of someone that kept it 100 percent precisely. Not in awe of boasting of what they do, but their dedication in serving the Lord b/c of their love for Him. I am learning the Hebrew language currently, and doing many studies pertaining to Jewish tradition, Torah, Paul, and many other things. I personally do not keep the שבת, and neither do I condemn a person that wishes to keep it based on their love for Him. The Torah must not be intertwined with grace, but that doesn't mean that one cannot follow it to the best of their ability today if they choose to honor Yahweh in that manner.
Ah very good! :) Yes there is a set of main "melachot" which is not exactly forbidden work but it is. These 39 laws have derived from the hint given in Leviticus 19:30 in relation to building the Mishkan/Temple. To find out more, you can probably look at Chabad.Org if interested. However, there are laws outside these 39 laws such as "lighting" a fire, baking challah, lighting shabbos candles, havdalah and not carrying. Extra stringencies come to even not even thinking negative thoughts on Shabbos. When it comes to the basics of written and oral law, many Orthodox Jews hold these laws "perfectly". Now the "extra stringencies" in relationship to a Gentile may seem like an overwhelming burden, placed on top of burden and that is why Paul says, DO NOT EVEN WORRY ABOUT IT, but as for a Jew, he is obligated to keep the Shabbat and "extra" is not necessary but if one desires to with a "PURE" intention, it is clearly permitted because he is expressing his absolute for G-d, just like one may struggle to hold the door open on a busy workday, these may be "similar" acts in relation to where one is spiritually. I hope this helps.

As for the "name" you gave G-d, I would strongly recommend that you refrain from using such a term for G-d's 4 letter tetragrammaton has NO vowels and to attempt to "give" G-d a name, is highly disrespectful. Obviously forgive is one did not know, but you wouldn't come to a King and make up a name for him if you came into his presence? How much more should we not assume to give a name or title to the King of Kings? Even more so, His name is so precious, the usage of His name should be used only in prayer and in Torah study. I know many "christian" and even "messianics" give such a title, but this is not a good witness to the Jewish people. :)

Just some advice, please take it with insight. I only mean to say it for the better. All the best brother! Don't get flustered with certain Christians, for if G-d revealed to you truth, keep seeking more and you will realize how "isolated" you will be, however your basis of truth stems from G-d and the Torah if you ever need to check if you are on the right path! :)

G-d Bless You!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,093
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#75
Oh! Many people say because I wish to obey the remaining laws that should be abeyed according to the teaching of Yeshua, I am "under the law," Yeshua does not.

I believe people have made up their own set of laws, and this is being "under the law," but in their own manner.

God bless people with understanding and His Love, not that love that comes out of one side of the mouth.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#76
How are they keeping the sabbath? As the Israelites did or some Christianised version?
Good question. Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel under the old covenant that is not binding on Christians in the New Testament.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Even when Sabbatarians set out to worship on the Sabbath, are they truly "keeping the Sabbath?" To "keep the Sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the Old Covenant would involve compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If Sabbath day observances are still required, so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath (Exodus 35:3). Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath (Exodus 16:29). No trading (Amos 8:5). No marketing (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19).

These were commanded by God to Israel (Exodus 35:1).

If the seventh day Sabbath is still in affect, then why do not the Sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD commanded? How can a person keep a certain law when he keeps only part of it? :unsure:

If the Sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church? The Government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant, no Sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.

Now I don't condemn people for setting out in some fashion to keep the Sabbath. What I have a major problem with is people who condemn others for not keeping the Sabbath in violation of Colossians 2:16-17. Some Sabbatarians (such as SDA's) have gone so far as to teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. Such a ludicrous teaching! :eek:

http://www.nonsda.org/study8.shtml
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#77
Do you participate in the chatroom? We get some....interesting people there sometimes. Unfortunately, I don't have any names, but this was something I've seen in the chatroom on more than one occasion. It's always been from a guest (they have ~ in front of their name).
Yes I have, and I have never seen it.

I have seen people say that those who think obedience to the sabbath is REQUIRED to be saved may not be saved.. Because they are trying to be saved by law.. But I have not seen anyone say outright, if you obey thesabaath your doomed to hell. Period.

However, I have seen MANY a peaople condemn people to hell because they do not obey the sabbath.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#78
Yes I have, and I have never seen it.

I have seen people say that those who think obedience to the sabbath is REQUIRED to be saved may not be saved.. Because they are trying to be saved by law.. But I have not seen anyone say outright, if you obey thesabaath your doomed to hell. Period.

However, I have seen MANY a peaople condemn people to hell because they do not obey the sabbath.
One such person who was previously a member of CC and happened to be SDA taught such nonsense and had a link at the bottom of all his posts to a website called, "The BeastsMark is coming!" which promoted the ludicrous idea that those who worship God on Sunday instead of Saturday will receive the mark of the beast and be condemned. :cautious:

He perverted the gospel by teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works" as demonstrated from a statement made by him in blue below and I quote:

"There is another Gospel out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. The counterfeit Gospel is out there. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ."
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,665
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#79
Even excluding the "LAW"... Why so against someone taking a day for Yeshua? Let's completely remove a law for anyone in the Word. What's the issue? Someone does it b/c they want to?

Do you celebrate birthdays? Anniversaries? Christmas? Or ANY other day? If so, then you're evil and wrong and I need to tell you how awful you are. Right?

Rom 4:15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.

So by biblical standards, anyone that wants to keep a Sabbath day is NOT in transgression, since there is no law, if they are doing so our of love and reverence to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and not for their salvation. And the law bringing wrath? That's correct.... in two ways.

1. You cannot follow the law 100 percent because if you fail in one, you fail in all, and it's only through Christ that one will EVER be justified and saved; apart from the law.

2. If you try and please God by following the law, you will fail EVERY time, thus, condeming yourselves; as u will never meet God's standard in keeping the law.

Did God give you the right to tell people if they keep a Sabbath that they are sinning? In transgression? When God simply tells us that there is nothing wrong with it.

And I"m not confused... You are spot on about something finally...

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setting apart time to worship the Lord.  I totally understand that a person does that out of love.
So don't judge someone that wishes to do something out of love... since you "totally understand"
Is this an issue of what day to worship on? Because Christians shouldn't really care what day a person worships or goes to church. For most people its sunday.

But for a Christian to say that he keeps the sabbath out of love for Christ is completely silly.

I'm not sure why you keep comparing it to birthdays and anniversaries. Birthdays and anniversaries aren't commanded by God and written on stone. The Lord Jesus doesn't need to deliver anyone from birthdays or anniversaries (probably).


So your issue doesn't seem to be how much you want to work at the law but rather on which day you want to go to church. I have no idea why you would say you were keeping the sabbath just because you choose a different day to go to church on. Especially if you know that the Lord Jesus Christ gives us Rest from our work at the law and delivers us from that curse.

And now, because you go to church on a different day than Christians, and you call it the Sabbath, and you say you do it out of love for Christ, then what happens to the Christians who don't go to church on the day you do?

Do they not love Christ?
Shouldn't the action of love be easy for EVERYONE to detect?

There go the people who love Christ going to church on the sabbath. Its just too bad most other Christians don't love Christ like you do.


The only problem with the above scenario is that working at the law IS NOT love of Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ gives us REST from our work at the law.

Would you sacrifice animals to show your love of Christ??? Its the same thing as this sabbath situation. It makes NO sense.

Theres no more need of sacrificing animals BECAUSE of Christ.

Theres no more need of working at the shadow of the law BECAUSE of Christ. Such as sabbaths, new moons, and festivals.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
#80
But for a Christian to say that he keeps the sabbath out of love for Christ is completely silly.
This is silly! To say this about anyone who wants to love God in any fashion is contradictory to scripture. We love God with ALL our hearts, and if one wants to love God with all their heart by keeping the Sabbath, then that is their right, and decision, and nobody should tell them they are 'silly' because they want to.

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Col 2:16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an 
holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
What part of this do we not understand about this?

People need to realize that they make their OWN LAWS up in their minds that say...

"THOU SHALT NOT KEEP A SABBATH DAY"

Sorry, but if I wanted to do so, I would go with my heart, not with these man made laws of there being no law.

Don't want to work, make food, turn a light switch on, put wood in the stove, because I wish to spend this day devoted to God; reading, studying, praying, worshiping, etc...

Shame on you for serving God. You are in violation if you serve God on a sabbath. You are no longer under grace because you are serving your God.

See how 'silly' that sounds?