POINT AT WHICH SIN BEGINS.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Z

zech912

Guest
#1
I have had an issue of visual interpretation that goes on in my mind-happening so fast-when for instance i see a gorgeous woman(curvy) and immediately i may not necessarily think sexual about her but i definitely find her attractive. Then the drama begins.."can't do that bro, she's probably someone's wife or future wife, God's precious daughter,you are a follower of Christ now,you don't live or think like that any more"..and so on and so on. Then it becomes a nightmare to run into a beautiful woman ! At what point does sin begin in this situation?..Oh... don't even get me started with the immediate thought that comes when i see say a "large" or "heavy" person. I believe i am not a mean person or 'judgmental" but that instant thought of "wow" then immediately followed by "dude that's not cool or nice at all coming from you a new creation in Christ !">> Guys these experiences are like torture to me and my self-criticism in my Christian walk ! H..E...L...P !!!!!!!
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#2
Thoughts are temptations. Decisions to act on them are sins. You sound like you are miles away from that. The devil uses this to confuse people into thinking they are sinning when they are not. Don't fall into that trap.
 
May 15, 2013
4,307
27
0
#3
I have had an issue of visual interpretation that goes on in my mind-happening so fast-when for instance i see a gorgeous woman(curvy) and immediately i may not necessarily think sexual about her but i definitely find her attractive. Then the drama begins.."can't do that bro, she's probably someone's wife or future wife, God's precious daughter,you are a follower of Christ now,you don't live or think like that any more"..and so on and so on. Then it becomes a nightmare to run into a beautiful woman ! At what point does sin begin in this situation?..Oh... don't even get me started with the immediate thought that comes when i see say a "large" or "heavy" person. I believe i am not a mean person or 'judgmental" but that instant thought of "wow" then immediately followed by "dude that's not cool or nice at all coming from you a new creation in Christ !">> Guys these experiences are like torture to me and my self-criticism in my Christian walk ! H..E...L...P !!!!!!!
1 Corinthians 7:9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

1 Corinthians 7:28
But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.

1 Corinthians 7:36
If anyone is worried that he might not be acting honorably toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if his passions are too strong and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married.

John 9:41
Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.
 
Aug 5, 2013
624
2
0
#4
Thoughts are temptations. Decisions to act on them are sins. You sound like you are miles away from that. The devil uses this to confuse people into thinking they are sinning when they are not. Don't fall into that trap.
The "devil" uses this idea to confuse people? Do you have a citation for that or are you just making it up? Jesus said that lusting after a woman in your heart was a sin, not the devil. It's quite reasonable, given that Jesus defined even thoughts as crimes against God, to worry that one's thoughts can be sinful.

As an atheist, I'd just suggest relaxing. If thoughts that you can't control are offending God, then it's God's fault for building you that way and he can do all the worrying. If you keep your thoughts to yourself and simply don't act upon them, then you won't be hurting anyone.
 
M

Mammachickadee

Guest
#5
The "devil" uses this idea to confuse people? Do you have a citation for that or are you just making it up? Jesus said that lusting after a woman in your heart was a sin, not the devil. It's quite reasonable, given that Jesus defined even thoughts as crimes against God, to worry that one's thoughts can be sinful.

As an atheist, I'd just suggest relaxing. If thoughts that you can't control are offending God, then it's God's fault for building you that way and he can do all the worrying. If you keep your thoughts to yourself and simply don't act upon them, then you won't be hurting anyone.
I agree with Kenisyes. Looking at a woman and forcing yourself to look away is the exact opposite of lust. The devil uses a man's overwhelming fear of displeasing the Lord in his thought life to try and convince the man into discouragement that if he is still dealing with the temptation he is sinning. The temptation is not the sin, for temptation is from the devil. The sin begins when a man does not withdraw from the temptation to lust or commit sexual sin.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,942
1,585
113
#6
I have had an issue of visual interpretation that goes on in my mind-happening so fast-when for instance i see a gorgeous woman(curvy) and immediately i may not necessarily think sexual about her but i definitely find her attractive. Then the drama begins.."can't do that bro, she's probably someone's wife or future wife, God's precious daughter,you are a follower of Christ now,you don't live or think like that any more"..and so on and so on. Then it becomes a nightmare to run into a beautiful woman ! At what point does sin begin in this situation?..Oh... don't even get me started with the immediate thought that comes when i see say a "large" or "heavy" person. I believe i am not a mean person or 'judgmental" but that instant thought of "wow" then immediately followed by "dude that's not cool or nice at all coming from you a new creation in Christ !">> Guys these experiences are like torture to me and my self-criticism in my Christian walk ! H..E...L...P !!!!!!!

zech you said something else,,,,you,your body/tabernacle is the vessel that the spirit of "zeck912" is driving thru this life. the spirit of zech912 says to your tabernacle/body's hands "do this,or do that",,they always obey the spirit of zech912. you say to your hands "tie my shoes" and they tie them and never argue.

so if you see,and the spirit of zech912 says to your tabernacle "act on it,your tempted(post 2),,,but i notice you also heard another "dude thats not kool,,ect.",,,,(who said that to you?????),,whose voice was that?,,,,some would say "oh zech,it's your own conscience",,,but look closer.

if you see the woman/temptation ect. and you hear the voice "dude thats not love(kool,in your words meaning right wrong)",,,but you don't listen to this advice coming from inside there when you close your eyes.,,,,well lets say you say to your body/tabernacle "go act on this",,,(notice your body/tabernacle will not argue it will obey your spirits voice whether you tell it to do right or wrong),,,so lets say you don't listen to the voice saying "dude thats not kool",,,,

now look real close at who is guilty of what,,,,,because the spirit of zech912 saw,was tempted,and did the act "the spirits conscience of zech912 is/feels guilty",,,,,,,,go back to the voice you said you heard "dude thats not kool",,,,,,,,,,(notice it's not guilty,remember it told you thats not love),,,,,who's voice is that?

remember Paul said "i tell you a mystery,Christ in you",,,,,remember this that if you,in weakness stumble you will have a guilty conscience,,,,and at the same time when you close your eyes that voice that said "do it not",,,,is not guilty of anything.,,,,zech i cannot give you anymore h.e.l.p.,,,,,i am an man,a brother,,,,you listen to that voice you described he is "Christ in you"

you are the temple of god at zech912,and i,seeing that the lord of host is in the temple of god at zech912,i lay down this fruit at the temple of god at zech912.,,,,zech if you go up to the temple of god at beautiful women,seeing he is also Christ in her,,,you lay sin down at the temple of god at beautiful woman.,,,if you go up to the temple of god at fat woman and lay down mocking fruits,you lay down mocking fruits at the temple of god at "fat woman",,,,

do not worship the people,,,,worship the god who is in that tabernacle,,he is the lord of host,Christ in you,,,"i am in the midst of loving you",,,take a coat to the temple of the cold and offer it to the lord of host who dwells in them. take bread to the temple of god at hunger and offer it to the lord of host who is in those who hunger.,,,,,i am not going to love you later,or cease from loving you tomorrow,,,i am in the midst of loving you,,,,,
 
B

BeanieD

Guest
#7
Zech, I whole heartedly agree with Kenisyes, and Mamachickadee. temptation is comon to everyone, but it is when we dwell on that temptation, or give in to it that it is sin. The Holy Spirit is your concience and you have been listening.

God bless you always Zach
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,942
1,585
113
#8
"the holy spirit is your continence",,????,,,,but i do agree with all the rest,kenisyes,mamachichadee,and you accept for this one statement,,,,,,
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
91
48
#9
Thoughts are temptations. Decisions to act on them are sins. You sound like you are miles away from that. The devil uses this to confuse people into thinking they are sinning when they are not. Don't fall into that trap.
I agree with keniseyes

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Do not err, my beloved brethren.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
51
#10
Thoughts are temptations. Decisions to act on them are sins. You sound like you are miles away from that. The devil uses this to confuse people into thinking they are sinning when they are not. Don't fall into that trap.
Hi Kenistes,

This is really bad advice, for lust is sin.

The dictionary definition of lust is "1) intense or unrestrained sexual craving, or 2) an overwhelming desire or craving." The Bible speaks of lust in several ways. Exodus 20:14, 17 (NLT), "Do not commit adultery. . . Do not covet your neighbor’s house. Do not covet your neighbor’s wife, male or female servant, ox or donkey, or anything else your neighbor owns," or Matthew 5:28, "But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Job 31:11-12 (NLT) sums up lust quite nicely: "For lust is a shameful sin, a crime that should be punished. It is a devastating fire that destroys to hell. It would wipe out everything I own."


Read more: What is lust? What does the Bible have to say about lust?
 
Z

zech912

Guest
#11
Thanks guys especially iamsoandso ! Your words have definitely struck a code in me. I think a part of me struggles with this dilemma of fighting temptation with also a hidden sinful desire to find a means of o.king the "thoughts" with the backing of other "young" Christians going through this similar issue.It's like that old jacket that grand pa gave you years ago and now you are married and your wife wants you to get rid of it and you keep trying to find reasons to keep it.
 
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#12
The "devil" uses this idea to confuse people? Do you have a citation for that or are you just making it up? Jesus said that lusting after a woman in your heart was a sin, not the devil. It's quite reasonable, given that Jesus defined even thoughts as crimes against God, to worry that one's thoughts can be sinful.

As an atheist, I'd just suggest relaxing. If thoughts that you can't control are offending God, then it's God's fault for building you that way and he can do all the worrying. If you keep your thoughts to yourself and simply don't act upon them, then you won't be hurting anyone.
Your ending statement: not true, you are hurting yourself.
However, your first citation is true, the thought is sin.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
3,651
113
#13
The "devil" uses this idea to confuse people? Do you have a citation for that or are you just making it up? Jesus said that lusting after a woman in your heart was a sin, not the devil. It's quite reasonable, given that Jesus defined even thoughts as crimes against God, to worry that one's thoughts can be sinful.

As an atheist, I'd just suggest relaxing. If thoughts that you can't control are offending God, then it's God's fault for building you that way and he can do all the worrying. If you keep your thoughts to yourself and simply don't act upon them, then you won't be hurting anyone.
It strikes me odd, even hypocritical for an atheist to pose giving advice as if coming from God.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,713
3,651
113
#14
Thanks guys especially iamsoandso ! Your words have definitely struck a code in me. I think a part of me struggles with this dilemma of fighting temptation with also a hidden sinful desire to find a means of o.king the "thoughts" with the backing of other "young" Christians going through this similar issue.It's like that old jacket that grand pa gave you years ago and now you are married and your wife wants you to get rid of it and you keep trying to find reasons to keep it.
Read Romans 7 thru 8 over and over...it will shed lots of light on the matter.
 
O

OwenHeidenreich

Guest
#15
Cross note. yes! Romans 7! thats exactly what God put on my heart to post here. yes.

romans 7

DONT RUN AWAY FROM SIN, RUN TO GOD!
 
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#17
Thoughts are temptations. Decisions to act on them are sins. You sound like you are miles away from that. The devil uses this to confuse people into thinking they are sinning when they are not. Don't fall into that trap.
Kenisyes, with all do respect, you are saying it is ok to look at porn because in Gods eyes you aren't sinning? Your are only thinking of a sinful action. Satin wanted Jesus to bow down to him. Satin tempted Jesus by offering him all the kingdoms of the world in exchange for this. Satin didn't give Jesus anything. Satins thoughts were sin. Jesus said, thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Satin sinned. The thought of bowing down to Satin never entered Jesus mind, therefore Jesus didn't sin.
See where I'm going here? You are so advanced in scripture, that perhaps you forgot (and we all do) the simpler things. So you aren't put down cause that is simply not the case, I said, we all do.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#18
The "devil" uses this idea to confuse people? Do you have a citation for that or are you just making it up?
In Christian spiritual theology, it is called scrupulosity, and you may research it under that. In humanistic psychology, it would be something like spiritual obsessive compulsive discorder. It does not concern the lust, but the idea that you have lusted when in fact you have not actually done so. Christians differentiate between temptation (which is the idea that you might sin) and sin (which is agreeing to go along with what the temptation suggests). Atheists simply note that the person is troubled by irrational feelings of guilt, to the point of requiring psychological help.

Relaxing is the appropriate treatment, as you suggest. Since you do not believe in the devil (I assume, since you are an atheist), you believe this choice is controlled by the strength of the person, since there is no "adversary" to add to the strength of the attack. It is different when one has embraced the grace of God, and is challenged by its availability to overcome the evil in the world that appears in partial form inside yourself, so that you can grow into the victory of Jesus. In your world, drugs are used as the backup plan. In our world, prayer and correct understanding of God's plan is the appropriate treatment, and that is why the counsel as I gave it.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#19
Kenisyes, with all do respect, you are saying it is ok to look at porn because in Gods eyes you aren't sinning?
Of course not. I have seen porn about 5 times in my life, by accident looking for other magazines on the rack, or in internet pop-ups. I must look long enough to realize that I do not care to keep looking.

That's not what this is about. In many people, God gives a strong sex drive, to make them be good partners eventually with a specific spouse. The drive itself is a gift of God and needs to be channeled as a part of God's life-plan for them. The devil, knowing this, and wishing to stop God's plan from happening, tries to convince the person that any sexual desire is sinful, and that the person must avoid all thought, all contact, with any member of the opposite sex. If this statement is never made, the devil is free to pervert the words of Scripture, and convince the person of many things. I've seen cases where a man cannot even upzip his pants to urinate because he is convinced it is a sin. Zech is nowhere near that bad off, but that's where it has gone for some people.

Only a small but significant percentage are troubled by this. Those who are not tend not to understand what is happening, and sometimes feel that the thoughts are indeed sinful.
 
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#20
Of course not. I have seen porn about 5 times in my life, by accident looking for other magazines on the rack, or in internet pop-ups. I must look long enough to realize that I do not care to keep looking.

That's not what this is about. In many people, God gives a strong sex drive, to make them be good partners eventually with a specific spouse. The drive itself is a gift of God and needs to be channeled as a part of God's life-plan for them. The devil, knowing this, and wishing to stop God's plan from happening, tries to convince the person that any sexual desire is sinful, and that the person must avoid all thought, all contact, with any member of the opposite sex. If this statement is never made, the devil is free to pervert the words of Scripture, and convince the person of many things. I've seen cases where a man cannot even upzip his pants to urinate because he is convinced it is a sin. Zech is nowhere near that bad off, but that's where it has gone for some people.

Only a small but significant percentage are troubled by this. Those who are not tend not to understand what is happening, and sometimes feel that the thoughts are indeed sinful.

Then what is Jesus saying here which don't seem to agree with the statement you just gave me about sexual desire which is lust which is sin?
Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman ...
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s"]... But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already
committed adultery with her in his heart. ... [SIZE=-1]

[/SIZE][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I run across porn too on tv even, but I don't lust, I'm not interested, there is no thought of sex running through my mind. The only thought I have is oops, wrong channel.
 
Last edited: