POINT AT WHICH SIN BEGINS.

[directline2iam]

But it occurred to you in your mind that there might have been. Or you could not have made this statement. This illustrates the separation between the two.

Not at all in that case but under totally different circumstances I'll be the first to admit I have certainly lusted in my heart and sinned. And I sure can't say I won't ever due it again, but I sure try not to cause it just isn't a good thing.

 

[directline2iam]

This is true, and this is why counselling is best done in private rather than in public, where questions can be asked, and body language and tone of voice can be noted. Discernment needs to be exercised, and either of us, or both, could be reading into the post our own needs, or experiences, instead.

Yes, but we aren't discussing anyones sins here we are only giving our opinions of the question posted which again is @ the point at which sin begins. If my opinions aren't welcome here just tell me, I'm here not to be a humanistic psychology major, but rather but rather a spiritual part of the body to inter act with others and give and get opinions which hopefully helps others and myself.

 

[directline2iam]

You are going through the fight between flesh and Spirit of God that is not uncommon to man

Galatians 6:8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

James 1

New Life Version (NLV)

1 This letter is from James. I am a servant owned by God and the Lord Jesus Christ. I greet the twelve family groups of the Jewish nation living in many parts of the world.
Take Hope When Tests Come

[SUP]2 [/SUP]My Christian brothers, you should be happy when you have all kinds of tests. [SUP]3 [/SUP]You know these prove your faith. It helps you not to give up. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Learn well how to wait so you will be strong and complete and in need of nothing.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]If you do not have wisdom, ask God for it. He is always ready to give it to you and will never say you are wrong for asking. [SUP]6 [/SUP]You must have faith as you ask Him. You must not doubt. Anyone who doubts is like a wave which is pushed around by the sea. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Such a man will get nothing from the Lord. [SUP]8 [/SUP]The man who has two ways of thinking changes in everything he does.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]A Christian brother who has few riches of this world should be happy for what he has. He is great in the eyes of God. [SUP]10 [/SUP]But a rich man should be happy even if he loses everything. He is like a flower that will die. [SUP]11 [/SUP]The sun comes up with burning heat. The grass dries up and the flower falls off. It is no longer beautiful. The rich man will die also and all his riches will be gone. [SUP]12 [/SUP]The man who does not give up when tests come is happy. After the test is over, he will receive the crown of life. God has promised this to those who love Him.
God Does Not Tempt Us

[SUP]13 [/SUP]When you are tempted to do wrong, do not say, “God is tempting me.” God cannot be tempted. He will never tempt anyone. [SUP]14 [/SUP]A man is tempted to do wrong when he lets himself be led by what his bad thoughts tell him to do. [SUP]15 [/SUP]When he does what his bad thoughts tell him to do, he sins. When sin completes its work, it brings death.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]My Christian brothers, do not be fooled about this. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Whatever is good and perfect comes to us from God. He is the One Who made all light. He does not change. No shadow is made by His turning. [SUP]18 [/SUP]He gave us our new lives through the truth of His Word only because He wanted to. We are the first children in His family.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]My Christian brothers, you know everyone should listen much and speak little. He should be slow to become angry. [SUP]20 [/SUP]A man’s anger does not allow him to be right with God. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Put out of your life all that is unclean and wrong. Receive with a gentle spirit the Word that was taught. It has the power to save your souls from the punishment of sin.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Obey the Word of God. If you hear only and do not act, you are only fooling yourself. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Anyone who hears the Word of God and does not obey is like a man looking at his face in a mirror. [SUP]24 [/SUP]After he sees himself and goes away, he forgets what he looks like. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But the one who keeps looking into God’s perfect Law and does not forget it will do what it says and be happy as he does it. God’s Word makes men free.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]If a person thinks he is religious, but does not keep his tongue from speaking bad things, he is fooling himself. His religion is worth nothing. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Religion that is pure and good before God the Father is to help children who have no parents and to care for women whose husbands have died who have troubles. Pure religion is also to keep yourself clean from the sinful things of the world.

I don't think in my opinion verse 14 is worded properly and a different meaning pops out then what is intended. Like Jesus said, when you lust you sin and that is the same as physically committing the act of thought.

 

[homwardbound]

Not at all in that case but under totally different circumstances I'll be the first to admit I have certainly lusted in my heart and sinned. And I sure can't say I won't ever due it again, but I sure try not to cause it just isn't a good thing.

cast your cares on God who cares for us all, not self effort, flesh in and by itself even trying to mix it with Faith is very deceiving and lust is usually born from trying to not have it, through flesh or it succeeds and one can easily become self-righteous as Saul did, before he became Paul
Food for though on the war between Flesh and God's Spirit\
Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

In the new born again Spirit from God, God is not weak, and is the doer of the word not just hearer
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Ephesians 2:2 wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Hope us all to see and learn the difference and walk as God walked according to the same Spirit he has sent us those of us that believe

 

[homwardbound]

I don't think in my opinion verse 14 is worded properly and a different meaning pops out then what is intended. Like Jesus said, when you lust you sin and that is the same as physically committing the act of thought.

Actually it leads to it, and it becomes the sin that ine did not shun to God to take care of it, before it manifested

[h=3]James 1:12-14[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Loving God Under Trials[/h][SUP]12[/SUP]Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. (but it is never us that do this it is Faith in God that does this through us if we believe God)[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. [SUP]14[/SUP]But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.


[h=3]James 4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

4 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God?

 

[homwardbound]

are we not all drawn by spiritual forces of thoughts enter out thoughts and either we listen to them or we do not correct?
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

The Battlefield is in our minds, reality of what is, fighting emotion that de-rails us into depression to some degree or another.
Go to a scary Movie and when you get scared if you do, it is emotion(s) that make one scared, even though it is only a Movie and you know this, but get involved in it.
So Emotion(s) predictably respond to whatever is going on in the mind and one reacts accordingly to this, Feelings are produced and actions take place that many times are not good actions or reactions.
So do you see the war of truth from God verses Emotions, according to what we are thinking?

 

[homwardbound]

We all have been designed in such a way that whatever one thinks so they are, and it matters not what one wants the outcome to be.
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

So if I do not think flesh thoughts and am so busy thanking God thinking God thoughts then will I produce flesh or Spirit of God?
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[kenisyes]

Yes, but we aren't discussing anyones sins here we are only giving our opinions of the question posted which again is @ the point at which sin begins. If my opinions aren't welcome here just tell me, I'm here not to be a humanistic psychology major, but rather but rather a spiritual part of the body to inter act with others and give and get opinions which hopefully helps others and myself.

I have no authority to say whose opinions are welcome. We all agree to the rules of the website, which say everyone's opinions are welcome. My opinions of your opinions are that they are welcome. So we both post our opinions, and clarify until we are content that we have finished doing so, and hopefully everyone who sees them has something they can pray about.

Just because you and I are not discussing anyone's sins, I do not know what a random reader might be thinking of when he reads these.

 

[BradC]

I have had an issue of visual interpretation that goes on in my mind-happening so fast-when for instance i see a gorgeous woman(curvy) and immediately i may not necessarily think sexual about her but i definitely find her attractive. Then the drama begins.."can't do that bro, she's probably someone's wife or future wife, God's precious daughter,you are a follower of Christ now,you don't live or think like that any more"..and so on and so on. Then it becomes a nightmare to run into a beautiful woman ! At what point does sin begin in this situation?..Oh... don't even get me started with the immediate thought that comes when i see say a "large" or "heavy" person. I believe i am not a mean person or 'judgmental" but that instant thought of "wow" then immediately followed by "dude that's not cool or nice at all coming from you a new creation in Christ !">> Guys these experiences are like torture to me and my self-criticism in my Christian walk ! H..E...L...P !!!!!!!

This is a process that every believer goes through as they learn how to be transformed in the spirit of their mind. We were accustomed to think in terms of the lust, desires, appetites and impulses of the flesh, but since we have been born of the incorruptible seed and of the Spirit, we must learn to grow in grace and knowledge of Christ so that we can walk in the Spirit and not fulfill these appetites by learning how to put them off and put them away because they were crucified at the cross. In Gen 29:17,18 Rachel was beautiful and favoured (a spectacle) and Jacob loved (or had an appetite and desire for) Rachel. He desired her, so to desire a woman is not sin. Just make sure she's available and pursue her with discretion.

We learn how to discipline our thinking according to the conviction we have of the scriptures through the Holy Spirit. Job on the other hand made a covenant with his eyes not to look upon a maid in 31:1. The apostle Paul encouraged others to remain as he, unmarried because of all the cares associated with marriage (1Cor 7:24-40). The call of God on an individuals life has lots to do with what you allow your eyes to behold and what you are to seek (1Cor 7:17, 20). It took Jacob (14) years to finally get Rachel.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

The sin begins when a man does not withdraw from the temptation to lust or commit sexual sin.

hello Mammachickadee

I really do like that statement.thanks...but i also would add that a person would not and could not do the withdrawal from sin unless GOD had done a work in them and they were in the living holy (sanctification process).

Romans 12

viewing the king james version(kjv)
[SUP]1[/SUP] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[SUP]
2[/SUP] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.