(poll) Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

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Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

  • He chooses us by predestination

    Votes: 31 64.6%
  • He gives us the strength and desire, but the choice is up to us in the end

    Votes: 16 33.3%
  • It's completely up to us without his strength or given desires by him

    Votes: 1 2.1%

  • Total voters
    48
Dec 29, 2018
74
40
18
With God being outside of time it will look like predestination to us. God knows if we will choose Him.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,649
1,086
113
Hello seed_time_harvest,

We agree the word "man" was added. Lets remove it:

Jn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all unto me
(NOTE: If I die paying sins wage, I will draw/invite ALL to come unto me. Had the Jews received Him as King. He wouldn't have had to die. The Kingdom (still to come) promised to the Fathers, would have begun. I don't know (God knows) how salvation would have worked if the Jews had accepted & crowned him King)

The PROMISE = Holy Spirit will be given

Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send ""the promise"" of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high
(NOTE: Jesus teaches he will send ""the promise"" the Father made him)

Acts 1:
Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for ""the promise"" of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me
(NOTE: Jesus tells them to wait in Jerusalem for ""the promise"" the Father will give to Christ to send them)

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days hence.
(NOTE: Jesus foretells the giving/baptism/out pouring of the Holy Spirit to come)

John 7:
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water
(NOTE: He that BELIEVE'S)

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)

(NOTE: Jesus foretells of a promise that the Father will give the Son control of (Holy Spirit). After his resurrection/glorification (when Christ has FINISHED his redemptive work). Christ who knows every persons true heart. Will then offer/invite EVERYONE to salvation/reconciliation. But, will only give/place/anoint/indwell the true believer with the Eternal Seal of His Holy Spirit.)
Very good scriptures but IMO,where It says “If I be lifted up I will draw all unto me” Is talking about death on a cross which would pay the penalty for sin satisfying the demand of the law which meant

death and GOD who loves righteousness would accept that sacrifice and then whosoever believes In the WORD of GOD In CHRIST could receive salvation.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,044
736
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Hello ForestGreenCook,

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

I answered your question in my post = Those who accept the invitation = BELIEVERS. Peace FD
Did you read Psalms 53:2-3, to see, by God's foreknowledge, who would accept the invitation? Christ sacrifice on the cross was a sacrifice made to God, for God's acceptance and not to man for man's acceptance. Read the account of regeneration in Eph 2:5. I do not see where the natural man accepted any invitation when he was yet dead (spiritually) in sins. Eternal salvation is not an invitation for man to accept, otherwise, it would not be by God's sovereign grace and that not of man's work of accepting.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,044
736
113
With God being outside of time it will look like predestination to us. God knows if we will choose Him.
Welcome to the forum. You might want to read Psalms 53:2-3 to see by God's foreknowledge if he knows who will choose him.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,044
736
113
you are not acknowledging my post,how can there be back and forth If I continue responding If your post Are you a Calvinist?
How does a person hear spiritually If they loved darkness?Don't men look at the outward appearances?So How would they be able to have ears to understand,how would they be able to call on GOD?
They are regenerated (born of the Spirit) Eph 2:5 before they are able to have ears to understand the things of the Spirit. The natural man, before he has been regenerated cannot discern the things of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:14).
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
882
295
63
Did you read Psalms 53:2-3, to see, by God's foreknowledge, who would accept the invitation? Christ sacrifice on the cross was a sacrifice made to God, for God's acceptance and not to man for man's acceptance. Read the account of regeneration in Eph 2:5. I do not see where the natural man accepted any invitation when he was yet dead (spiritually) in sins. Eternal salvation is not an invitation for man to accept, otherwise, it would not be by God's sovereign grace and that not of man's work of accepting.
Ok, nice talking with you. I don't believe we will ever agree on this piece of doctrine. No harm, no foul, best wishes. FD
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,433
206
63
When Christ choose to come to the earth and Die for us He choose us. When we choose to die to self and live for Him we choose Him. Jesus loves all of us and wants all to choose Him.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

He did everything, all we have to do is respond.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,649
1,086
113
When Christ choose to come to the earth and Die for us He choose us. When we choose to die to self and live for Him we choose Him. Jesus loves all of us and wants all to choose Him.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

He did everything, all we have to do is respond.
There are some Calvinist on here that might ask,how do men respond or choose to die to self and live for HIM since men loved darkness?

They look at GODs predestination In a way that a man would look at predestination making GOD look bad.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,433
206
63
Jer 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

I agree that we can't do good in our own power.
But with the Spirit in us, With Christ in my heart can i be empowered to choose the right way.
Christ can empower us. And continual surrender to His will, my character is transformed.

Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,727
113
Texas
We don't choose HIM and HE doesn't choose us?:unsure:
Could you expound more on why you say that?
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:1‭-‬5 NASB
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,649
1,086
113
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:1‭-‬5 NASB
So It sounds like you ARE saying that GOD chose us,that’s why I was wondering why you said HE neither chose us and we didn’t choose Him.🙂
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,044
736
113
When Christ choose to come to the earth and Die for us He choose us. When we choose to die to self and live for Him we choose Him. Jesus loves all of us and wants all to choose Him.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

He did everything, all we have to do is respond.
The only ones that will respond are those who have been born again. The people that Peter is talking are those that have obtained like precious faith (2Pet 1:1). He even includes himself by using the word "USWARD".
 

Dooms

Junior Member
Feb 8, 2018
66
61
18
I think that for as long as men live, there is a way back for us. Christ came for the penitent sinners.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,044
736
113
I think that for as long as men live, there is a way back for us. Christ came for the penitent sinners.
Christ died on the cross for the elect that God choose (Eph 1:4) and will come at the last day to collect all of his elect and take them home.
 
Dec 30, 2018
50
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Doesn't Scripture say that none come to Jesus unless the Father draws him, and about those whom He chose He did predestine, God knowing the end from the beginning, even before the creation of the world, He being eternal and the Creator of all things? God knew before He created the world who would come to Him--we think we're making choices but if God knows everything that's ever going to happen then are there really multiple potentials for the future? Weren't we given our good works beforehand to walk into? I don't know that we have free will if everything that's going to happen will happen (according to God's foreknowledge)... We're quick to trust Him and to say that's He's in control but I believe that those who die in Christ were chosen (I never considered myself a Calvinist before) :)
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,727
113
Texas
So It sounds like you ARE saying that GOD chose us,that’s why I was wondering why you said HE neither chose us and we didn’t choose Him.🙂
Not exactly. I don't think that a choice was ever made. I think we all belong to God and he does with us as he wishes.