(poll) Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

  • He chooses us by predestination

    Votes: 31 64.6%
  • He gives us the strength and desire, but the choice is up to us in the end

    Votes: 16 33.3%
  • It's completely up to us without his strength or given desires by him

    Votes: 1 2.1%

  • Total voters
    48
Oct 25, 2018
2,377
1,197
113
This is why I combat the "choose yourself into heaven via free will gospel" brother. Many are deceived they are on their way to heaven by it, and are as lost as the proverbial goose.

Soli Deo Gloria!
Where does a goose have to go to get lost my friend?

People tell me that all the time and I am no goose.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,701
1,097
113
Yes,the only people who have FREE WILL are Christians. The only free will non-believers have is the free will to sin. They cannot please God as the Bible proclaims. I have heard it as compared to a Lion in a supermarket. He has the free will to go to any food he likes,but where will he go? Always to the meat. It is because his nature desires the meat. The sinful nature of man is always to sin,not to do good.
I wanted to put an Excellent on this post but then I realized that It Is an Excellent response because I understand It but when you say only Christians have free will I realized that It wouldn't be fair to non Christians,I would prefer to say that those who are non Christians would have to recognize that although they would delight In the law of GOD they would see another law warring against the law of their mind and bringing them Into captivity to the law of sin which Is In their flesh.

Paul wrote that the law was good but he Is carnal.

Nevertheless the person has a rite to choose but they would need to call on GOD.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
399
83
I used to argue until my head fell off a long time ago. Now I just stick to the Word. If the Bible doesn't say it then I don't believe it. I have put the Word out. I will let those who read it pray about it and apply it to their lives or reject the Word as Hebrews talks about. You see a Christian DOES have the ability to accept to reject the Word of God,but not an Unbeliever. The Unbeliever has no power. They are fallen as we know from the Fall. I just refuse to argue anymore about Doctrine. It doesn't produce the fruit of Love,only bitterness and separation between two Believers. I have a Pentecostal friend. We just don't discuss Doctrine. We are two completely opposite ends of the earth in our beliefs,but we have remained friends. Sometimes you just can't discuss Doctrine with certain people who aren't open to discussing it.
The early elders saw the fact that there were issues with opposing views. They created the creeds that state what a Christian must believe. They then said everything elae Biblical was to agree to disagree. Thus the different gospel preaching denominations.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,701
1,097
113
According to the context of Romans 8:13-14, they who in their lifetimes choose to live for their spirit, and not to live for their flesh, are they whom the Lord foreknew before the world was, and whom He did predestine to become like Christ.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Some nay not see that scripture the same as I do but In my opinion to live after the spirit means the person chose to call on GOD and receive salvation.

To live after the flesh means a person chose to not call on GOD and be saved.
 

Lighthearted

Senior Member
Oct 17, 2016
1,703
702
113
50
It would be great if your beliefs were true. Unfortunately there is a Heaven and there is a Hell. You have to try and understand if there is a Hell then who is God sending to Hell?? If He loves everyone then who is He sending to Hell. You will be running into contradictions with that belief. It is a great one if it was true,but unfortunately it isn't supported from scripture,especially the book or Romans. If you read Romans you could never come out of it saying God loves everyone. God loved Jacob,but hated Esau just to name one single scripture. You see God doesn't contradict Himself. He is perfect. He has had a plan way before you and I were born. Ephesians talks all about the plan he made for you and I. Just read the New Testament from Mathew to Revelations ONE more time with maybe a commentary like John MacArthur who has been teaching the Word for over 45 years and has a very nice Bible College called Grace Community College and runs the Grace To You on the radio. You will be blessed and I promise you will see miracles appear in your readings you never saw before.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Now, those words came from Christ Himself. Those are the words we quote when we share the gospel with others. World and whosoever. So He loves us all. We were all given a gift. Only some of us will believe in Him. I also think that God doesn't hate anyone. I think He hates what we do and He hates sin. Yes...we will stand in judgement some day. No question about it. There is a heaven and there is a hell.
We are all in different places in our walk and personal relationship with our Lord. There are many denominations and they can't all be right about their doctrine....which is why we must discover the mysteries in God's word and I believe in the Power of the Holy Spirit for discernment.
I don't block my ears to what others have to say, so I will check out your suggestions and compare to the word.
God bless.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,701
1,097
113
Some nay not see that scripture the same as I do but In my opinion to live after the spirit means the person chose to call on GOD and receive salvation.

To live after the flesh means a person chose to not call on GOD and be saved.
Nevertheless Grace has been made available through faith to those who choose to listen to GOD's WORD.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
Some nay not see that scripture the same as I do but In my opinion to live after the spirit means the person chose to call on GOD and receive salvation.

To live after the flesh means a person chose to not call on GOD and be saved.
I also believe that they who choose to call on God earnestly with their whole heart to be saved from their carnal inclinations, are they whom the Lord did predestine to be conformed to the image of Christ. That image being one who lives for their spirit and not for their flesh.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,701
1,097
113
I also believe that they who choose to call on God earnestly with their whole heart to be saved from their carnal inclinations, are they whom the Lord did predestine to be conformed to the image of Christ. That image being one who lives for their spirit and not for their flesh.
Yes,I believe that whosoever calls on GOD means anyone who calls on GOD In truth.
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
Looks like the 'calvinists" have pulled ahead in the race to eternal life!

You cannot vanquish a Calvinist
.You may think you can, but you cannot. The stones of the great doctrines so fit into each other that the more pressure there is applied to remove them, the more strenuously do they adhere. And you may mark that you cannot receive one of these doctrines without believing all. C.H. Spurgeon
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,427
846
113
Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

I have gotten a debate in person and online recently about this.
Do you believe we are predestined to be saved, as if God chose us before our existence and planned to save us or do you believe it's up to us alone to choose him or do you believe he tries to choose us but leaves the final answer up to us?

With whatever you believe, there are these common sayings I get in response when they debate.

if you believe he chooses in us and we can't avoid him and being saved because we are predestined, then isn't us choosing him forced on us and not wanting him by free will and doesn't that seem like he didn't really die for everyone because he isn't choosing the rest of the world to save them?

if you believe it is entirely up to us, then does that mean in our sinful nature we have good desires to do what is right without God in us to give us those desires before salvation?

Or if you believe he makes us want to as if he gives us the strength and desires to want to be saved, but we can still choose to live in sin and not be saved? That it is up to us in the end?

I have not given my answer here on this poll, but I'd like to hear yours and I may share mine.
God choose an elect people before the foundation of the world (Eph 1). He did not choose them because he could see by his foreknowledge who would choose him. (Ps 53:2-3). All people are born into this world by natural birth corrupt and dead in sins (spiritually dead). Eph 2:5 says that while they are "YET" dead in sins, he quickened us to a spiritual life. When we are yet dead in sins we have no desire to Choose God, in fact, 1 Cor 2:14 says that we cannot choose a spiritual God. 1 John 4:19 says we love him because he first loved us.
 

bygrace

Active member
Dec 3, 2018
150
55
28
Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

I have gotten a debate in person and online recently about this.
Do you believe we are predestined to be saved, as if God chose us before our existence and planned to save us or do you believe it's up to us alone to choose him or do you believe he tries to choose us but leaves the final answer up to us?

With whatever you believe, there are these common sayings I get in response when they debate.

if you believe he chooses in us and we can't avoid him and being saved because we are predestined, then isn't us choosing him forced on us and not wanting him by free will and doesn't that seem like he didn't really die for everyone because he isn't choosing the rest of the world to save them?

if you believe it is entirely up to us, then does that mean in our sinful nature we have good desires to do what is right without God in us to give us those desires before salvation?

Or if you believe he makes us want to as if he gives us the strength and desires to want to be saved, but we can still choose to live in sin and not be saved? That it is up to us in the end?

I have not given my answer here on this poll, but I'd like to hear yours and I may share mine.
it is a debate of one done by those who are already saved. LOL let that sink in for a bit.
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
George Whitefield said, "We are all born Arminians." It is grace that turns us into Calvinists”

"If any man ascribes anything of salvation, even the very least thing, to the free will of man, he knows nothing of grace, and he has not learned Jesus Christ rightly." Martin Luther

I believe the man who is not willing to submit to the electing love and sovereign grace of God, has great reason to question whether he is a Christian at all, for the spirit that kicks against that is the spirit of the devil, and the spirit of the unhumbled, unrenewed heart.
C. H. Spurgeon
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,427
846
113
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Now, those words came from Christ Himself. Those are the words we quote when we share the gospel with others. World and whosoever. So He loves us all. We were all given a gift. Only some of us will believe in Him. I also think that God doesn't hate anyone. I think He hates what we do and He hates sin. Yes...we will stand in judgement some day. No question about it. There is a heaven and there is a hell.
We are all in different places in our walk and personal relationship with our Lord. There are many denominations and they can't all be right about their doctrine....which is why we must discover the mysteries in God's word and I believe in the Power of the Holy Spirit for discernment.
I don't block my ears to what others have to say, so I will check out your suggestions and compare to the word.
God bless.
For whom the Lord loveth, he chasteneth and scourgest every son he receiveth (Heb 12:6). If the Lord does not chasten someone, then we must conclude that he does not love them. Psalms 73:5 - They (the wicked) are not in trouble as other men; neither are they PLAGUED (divinely punished, according to Greek interpretation). In John 3:16, The whosoever BELIEVETH is 'present tense", not whosoever WILL BELIEVE which is future tense. So, it is the world of believers only, not the whole world of mankind. God says, "if they have not the Spirit, they are none of his".
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
God is not partial to any person as numerous scriptures indicate. Someone who believes the Lord chose people indiscriminately, in effect deny these scriptures posted below, and others about the Lords character.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Mark 12:14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?


James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
5,427
846
113
God is not partial to any person as numerous scriptures indicate. Someone who believes the Lord chose people indiscriminately, in effect deny these scriptures posted below, and others about the Lords character.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Mark 12:14 And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?


James 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
Mark 12:27 - He is not the God of the DEAD, but the God of the LIVING; ye therefore do greatly err. There are no contradictions within the inspired word of God. If we think we see a contradiction, then we are not understanding the scriptures correctly. Matt 12:25 - I thank the O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou has hidden these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. Do you think that this scripture is showing partiality? Do you think that God showed partiality with Jacob and Esau? Do you think that God is disrespectful to the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14 by not revealing spiritual things to him? God's elect are judged here in this world by the chastening rod of God. The rest are not judged here in this world, but will be judged at the last day. The scriptures are instructions from God to his children, on how he wants them to live there lives on earth. The scriptures are not written to those who have not the Spirit of God dwelling within them.
 

louis

Senior Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,102
86
48
As the Lord is not a respecter of persons, and we are all guilty of sin; one then has to use common sense to reason why some the Lord predestined, while others He did not.
When looking at all mankind throughout the ages if the Lord without reason said this one I will predestine, and that one I won't; this would make His choice of those He would not predestine unjust. And since the Lord is just and fair, the Lord then had just cause for those whom He would predestine and those whom He would not.
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,701
1,097
113
God choose an elect people before the foundation of the world (Eph 1). He did not choose them because he could see by his foreknowledge who would choose him. (Ps 53:2-3). All people are born into this world by natural birth corrupt and dead in sins (spiritually dead). Eph 2:5 says that while they are "YET" dead in sins, he quickened us to a spiritual life. When we are yet dead in sins we have no desire to Choose God, in fact, 1 Cor 2:14 says that we cannot choose a spiritual God. 1 John 4:19 says we love him because he first loved us.
All naturally born human beings are born with 5 sense knowledge,see,hear,taste,smell and feel.Every naturally born human being knows deep down that there Is a GOD,the creation Itself declares It so then there Is no excuse.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD of GOD.