POLL: The Deity of Christ
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My points were dealing more with the terms "trinity" vs "deity" vs "divinity".
I think the discussion is valid and intriguing,
but if emotions run high, then it's not worth the division it seems to cause.
Sidenote: I am not a Muslim, as someone accused me of... I would accept the accusation of being a rather bigoted calvinist with a propensity to question orthodoxy, if anything.
Jesus Christ has been given the Name, and in this we agree on His deity... I just question the orthodox view of the Godhead.
With God in the beginning, humbling Himself to be born of God yet as flesh, indwelt with the fullness of God, restored unto Glory.
I think that it is a valid view to see the Breath(Spirit) of God as not a separate "person" from God.
I think the discussion is valid and intriguing,
but if emotions run high, then it's not worth the division it seems to cause.
Sidenote: I am not a Muslim, as someone accused me of... I would accept the accusation of being a rather bigoted calvinist with a propensity to question orthodoxy, if anything.
Jesus Christ has been given the Name, and in this we agree on His deity... I just question the orthodox view of the Godhead.
With God in the beginning, humbling Himself to be born of God yet as flesh, indwelt with the fullness of God, restored unto Glory.
I think that it is a valid view to see the Breath(Spirit) of God as not a separate "person" from God.
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The issue is not with the existence or even divinity of the three,
but in the level of separation between them.
God has a single personality, therefore dividing Him into 3 persons is too far separated. There relationship is closer than is described by calling them three individual "persons". That denotes them having separate personalities, rather than just separate functions/expressions.
but in the level of separation between them.
God has a single personality, therefore dividing Him into 3 persons is too far separated. There relationship is closer than is described by calling them three individual "persons". That denotes them having separate personalities, rather than just separate functions/expressions.
V
OK. Then how do you explain this?
Bold and italics for emphasis on the issue I'm addressing. That rendering is the way it would be translated into modern English in a synagogue also.
No one here is teaching modalism. We believe in the One God, in Three Persons, distinct and co-existing Persons in the Divine single nature of God. Modalism is the doctrine that the persons of the Trinity represent only three modes or aspects of the divine revelation. They aren't the same thing.
Genesis 1, NASB
26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Bold and italics for emphasis on the issue I'm addressing. That rendering is the way it would be translated into modern English in a synagogue also.
No one here is teaching modalism. We believe in the One God, in Three Persons, distinct and co-existing Persons in the Divine single nature of God. Modalism is the doctrine that the persons of the Trinity represent only three modes or aspects of the divine revelation. They aren't the same thing.
Paul:A real disciple of the Lord Jesus?
Sure?
Cursing? (or anathematizing?) Whomever did not believe in our LordJesus Christ? (1Co_16:22).
I would pray that “Paul´s” anathematizing spirit do not followJesus´ followers. Since he (ifhe was a real person) so proudly said something like this:“...in the name of our LordJesus, ye being gathered together, andmyspirit,with the power of our Lord Jesus, to deliversuch a one untoSatanforthe destruction of the flesh,that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”(1Co 5:4, 5)
If most of the pastors or Church leaders were delivering sinners andadulterers -that way Paul taught about- many believers (orunbelievers) would be dead, and out of those churches you know “suchthings” are happening.
Our Lord Jesus taught that?
Did Jesus taught to curse a man? (He taught His disciples tocurse only things, instead. Just to show them the power offaith: Mat_21:21)
Instead, Jesus taught us to bless people (Mat_5:44, Luk 6:28)and His followers blessed, even at the point of dead (Act 7:60 Heknelt down and shouted, "Lord, don't blame them for whatthey have done." Then he died.).
I wish I had the same Holy Spirit that Stephen had! (Not Paul´s! Bythe way. Because it is a human spirit of a mortal man.)
If you think he was totally inspired by the HS, allow me to insist onthese things his writings showed, as his emotional background:
a) He delivered sinners unto Satan´s will? (1Co5:4, 5) (Did heheard Jesus´ or God´s will?)
b) He stubbornly opposed those who were partners (Act_15:39) Lateron, he changed that (Col_4:10, 2Ti_4:11, Phm_1:24)
c) His former religious seal approved the stoning and thekilling of people (Act_8:1, Act_9:1, Act_22:4) Yet, he didwrong, again (1Co 5:4, 5)
d) He wanted to be followed by Barnabas (Act_15:39) and Apollosfollowed his own heart (1Co_16:12) not Paul´s.
e) He “reinforced” his religious authority by tellingseveral believers they were “his”, or that he saw the Lord Jesus(1Co_3:6, 1Co_9:1-2, Gal_2:8, 2Co_12:11) performing miracles(2Co_12:12)
f) He seemed to be jealous of the apostleship the Lord Jesus gave Hischosen ones (2Co_12:11)
g) When he challenged people tostay as “he was” (incelibacy) he also acknowledged those human rightshe wasn´t making use of, like the rest of the apostles, who wereactually married and getting money from serving the Lord´s people(1Co_9:5)
My bottom line and thought:
Could it be possible that the true Gospel of the Lord Jesus could bewidespread without the RCC´s teachings?
Sure?
Cursing? (or anathematizing?) Whomever did not believe in our LordJesus Christ? (1Co_16:22).
I would pray that “Paul´s” anathematizing spirit do not followJesus´ followers. Since he (ifhe was a real person) so proudly said something like this:“...in the name of our LordJesus, ye being gathered together, andmyspirit,with the power of our Lord Jesus, to deliversuch a one untoSatanforthe destruction of the flesh,that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”(1Co 5:4, 5)
If most of the pastors or Church leaders were delivering sinners andadulterers -that way Paul taught about- many believers (orunbelievers) would be dead, and out of those churches you know “suchthings” are happening.
Our Lord Jesus taught that?
Did Jesus taught to curse a man? (He taught His disciples tocurse only things, instead. Just to show them the power offaith: Mat_21:21)
Instead, Jesus taught us to bless people (Mat_5:44, Luk 6:28)and His followers blessed, even at the point of dead (Act 7:60 Heknelt down and shouted, "Lord, don't blame them for whatthey have done." Then he died.).
I wish I had the same Holy Spirit that Stephen had! (Not Paul´s! Bythe way. Because it is a human spirit of a mortal man.)
If you think he was totally inspired by the HS, allow me to insist onthese things his writings showed, as his emotional background:
a) He delivered sinners unto Satan´s will? (1Co5:4, 5) (Did heheard Jesus´ or God´s will?)
b) He stubbornly opposed those who were partners (Act_15:39) Lateron, he changed that (Col_4:10, 2Ti_4:11, Phm_1:24)
c) His former religious seal approved the stoning and thekilling of people (Act_8:1, Act_9:1, Act_22:4) Yet, he didwrong, again (1Co 5:4, 5)
d) He wanted to be followed by Barnabas (Act_15:39) and Apollosfollowed his own heart (1Co_16:12) not Paul´s.
e) He “reinforced” his religious authority by tellingseveral believers they were “his”, or that he saw the Lord Jesus(1Co_3:6, 1Co_9:1-2, Gal_2:8, 2Co_12:11) performing miracles(2Co_12:12)
f) He seemed to be jealous of the apostleship the Lord Jesus gave Hischosen ones (2Co_12:11)
g) When he challenged people tostay as “he was” (incelibacy) he also acknowledged those human rightshe wasn´t making use of, like the rest of the apostles, who wereactually married and getting money from serving the Lord´s people(1Co_9:5)
My bottom line and thought:
Could it be possible that the true Gospel of the Lord Jesus could bewidespread without the RCC´s teachings?
Pathetically or not, that double standard is also believed, becasue I don´t know greek to translate the LOST originals and, those COPIES I also believed by faith, by believing they are actual and exact copies of those lost ones.
It´s sad God haven´t given us, humans and believers, an updated COPY of His words and will, today.
It´s sad God haven´t given us, humans and believers, an updated COPY of His words and will, today.
S
Yet for us there is but one God-the father from whom all things came and for whom we live and one lord Jesus Christ through whom all things came and through whom we live 1cor8:6
Now this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent john 17:3
If anyone believes Jesus is the son of God, God lives I him and he in God 1 john 4:15
No one hath seen God at anytime 1john 4:12
The father is greater than I john 14:28
The father us greater than all john 10:29
Do not go beyond what is written 1cor4:6
Where is the wise man, where is the scholar,where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 1cor1:20
The lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile 1cor3:20
Now this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent john 17:3
If anyone believes Jesus is the son of God, God lives I him and he in God 1 john 4:15
No one hath seen God at anytime 1john 4:12
The father is greater than I john 14:28
The father us greater than all john 10:29
Do not go beyond what is written 1cor4:6
Where is the wise man, where is the scholar,where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 1cor1:20
The lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile 1cor3:20