POLL: The Deity of Christ
- Thread starter p_rehbein
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I too question the validity of that verse because of the almost non existent manuscript evidence for it. However, this does not meat that what the verse says is untrue. What this verse says is found in other passages to confirm if not the validity of the presence of the verse, certainly the content of what it says.
I believe at this point Jesus quilified for his future kingdom rule over earth,
but has now yet recieved, but thank God that Christ died to take us with him when he does.
the spirit was given out by the father, later Christ dolls out Gods power now after pentacost that year.
He had the full measure before mabe, but started the priest hood at 30 right then too,
mabe anoited to serve God then as priest.
but has now yet recieved, but thank God that Christ died to take us with him when he does.
the spirit was given out by the father, later Christ dolls out Gods power now after pentacost that year.
He had the full measure before mabe, but started the priest hood at 30 right then too,
mabe anoited to serve God then as priest.
Upon a bit of research, certain CoG congregations seem to have come to similar conclusions to what I am trying to express. I will look into them and see if there are any further implications that I may have missed which discredit the whole idea.
Also, my understanding of the word Spirit is more based on the Hebrew "ruach" than the Greek "pneuma".
Also, my understanding of the word Spirit is more based on the Hebrew "ruach" than the Greek "pneuma".
Let us begin here. These arguments and comments do not originate with me. I have them from a professor of New Testament Greek. I have taken the liberty to rework some of the arguments and added some of my own comments and observations from the grammar.
εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."
There are a couple things you need to know about Greek syntax in order to understand what John is really saying in this verse. First, Koine Greek normally drops the article in a prepositional phrase. The absence of the article in a prepositional phrase is normal in the Greek, and doesn't mean anything. It is the INCLUSION of the article in a prepositional phrase that is unusual, so when John includes the use of the article in these prepositional phrases it means something.
The prepositional phrase "εν αρχη" (in beginning) doesn't contain an article, but is still properly translated "in the beginning." The prepositional phrase "προς τον θεον," (was with the God) however, does include the article (τον). Since it was proper not to include it, the INCLSION then of the article here means something. In general, the inclusion of an article when it is not expected means he is being very specific about a particular individual who is God. In order to fully understand how that effects this verse, we need to go to the last clause. To understand the implications of the last clause, you need to understand Greek syntax. First, Greek distinguishes the role a noun plays in a sentence by changing the case. In general, if the noun is the subject, it is in the nominative case. If it is the direct object, it is in the accusative case. However, there is a strange class of verbs that do not take a direct object, they take a predicate. There are three verbs that do this in Koine Greek. This means that you have two nouns that are the same case (nominative), where one is the subject, and one is the predicate. So if both are in the same case, how do you know which is the subject, and which is the predicate?
Here are the rules (Notice, I said these are rules. You can't ignore them, you can't change them, you can't remove them, and you can't add to them!)
1. If both nouns have the article attached, then the first is the subject, the second is the predicate.
2. If NEITHER noun has the article attached, then the first is the subject, the second is the predicate.
3. If one has an article, but the other does not, then the one WITH the article is the subject, and the one without the article is the predicate.
So in the phrase "και θεος ην ο λογος", we see that λογος has an article (o) and θεος does not. Thus, o λογος is the subject, while θεος is the predicate.
Are you with me so far?
εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."
There are a couple things you need to know about Greek syntax in order to understand what John is really saying in this verse. First, Koine Greek normally drops the article in a prepositional phrase. The absence of the article in a prepositional phrase is normal in the Greek, and doesn't mean anything. It is the INCLUSION of the article in a prepositional phrase that is unusual, so when John includes the use of the article in these prepositional phrases it means something.
The prepositional phrase "εν αρχη" (in beginning) doesn't contain an article, but is still properly translated "in the beginning." The prepositional phrase "προς τον θεον," (was with the God) however, does include the article (τον). Since it was proper not to include it, the INCLSION then of the article here means something. In general, the inclusion of an article when it is not expected means he is being very specific about a particular individual who is God. In order to fully understand how that effects this verse, we need to go to the last clause. To understand the implications of the last clause, you need to understand Greek syntax. First, Greek distinguishes the role a noun plays in a sentence by changing the case. In general, if the noun is the subject, it is in the nominative case. If it is the direct object, it is in the accusative case. However, there is a strange class of verbs that do not take a direct object, they take a predicate. There are three verbs that do this in Koine Greek. This means that you have two nouns that are the same case (nominative), where one is the subject, and one is the predicate. So if both are in the same case, how do you know which is the subject, and which is the predicate?
Here are the rules (Notice, I said these are rules. You can't ignore them, you can't change them, you can't remove them, and you can't add to them!)
1. If both nouns have the article attached, then the first is the subject, the second is the predicate.
2. If NEITHER noun has the article attached, then the first is the subject, the second is the predicate.
3. If one has an article, but the other does not, then the one WITH the article is the subject, and the one without the article is the predicate.
So in the phrase "και θεος ην ο λογος", we see that λογος has an article (o) and θεος does not. Thus, o λογος is the subject, while θεος is the predicate.
Are you with me so far?
F
To the contrary of the word 'separate':
You, Father, are in Me and I in You,
Jn 17:21.
Speaking of language: Father, Son, and Spirit are distinct. But not separate.
He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, 8:29.
Come to know and continue to know that the Father is in Me and I am in the Father, 10:38.
Indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you...Christ is in you, Rm 8:9-10.
He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit, 1 Cor 6:17.
To the contrary:
God is a person.
Elohim said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness......Jehovah Elohim formed man, Gen 1:26; 2:7
You, Father, are in Me and I in You,
Jn 17:21.
Speaking of language: Father, Son, and Spirit are distinct. But not separate.
He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, 8:29.
Come to know and continue to know that the Father is in Me and I am in the Father, 10:38.
Indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you...Christ is in you, Rm 8:9-10.
He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit, 1 Cor 6:17.
To the contrary:
God is a person.
Elohim said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness......Jehovah Elohim formed man, Gen 1:26; 2:7
Last edited by a moderator: