POLL: The Deity of Christ

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The Deity of Christ?


  • Total voters
    61
  • Poll closed .
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senzi

Guest
Yes, this is is true but, you are talking about two different realms of reality. The fact that the H.S. indwells the Christian and thereby establishes our unity with God does not mean we can apply this same line of reasoning to the unseen realm as say that the H.S also continues to indwell Jesus. The Bible does not tell us this.
Christ himself stated when praying to the father. That they (the believers) may be one AS we are one. I would hope you accept the biblical principal that believers can only be as one in the holy spirit. Therefore it is the holy spirit who fully resides in the perfect body of Christ, as you accept he did during Christs earthly ministry. And john 3:34 tells us Christ spoke the words of God for the spirit was on him without limit.
 
F

flob

Guest
Well, since we use the word 'God' in English, rather than Elohim, for example, and as a synonym for Jehovah,
God is not a thing, He's a person. In other words, we describe Him best
 
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oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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Christ himself stated when praying to the father. That they (the believers) may be one AS we are one. I would hope you accept the biblical principal that believers can only be as one in the holy spirit. Therefore it is the holy spirit who fully resides in the perfect body of Christ, as you accept he did during Christs earthly ministry. And john 3:34 tells us Christ spoke the words of God for the spirit was on him without limit.
Jesus and the Father are not one because the H.S indwells them. There is not text of scripture that even implies this. The Unity of God as ONE God does not define a numeric value but a unity of parts.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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Well, since we use the word 'God' in English, rather than Elohim, for example, and as a synonym for Jehovah,
God is not a thing, He's a person. In other words, we describe Him best
Yes, of course God s not a thing. God is a triadic unity of beings.
 
F

flob

Guest
God is one life. One organic Being. He's not separate. He is, however, 3 persons in 1.
A community, even more, a 'family.' An eternal reproductive flow.
And He has and is incorporating us into His Body, as His wife and sons
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
613
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God is one life. One organic Being. He's not separate. He is, however, 3 persons in 1.
A community, even more, a 'family.' An eternal reproductive flow.
And He has and is incorporating us into His Body, as His wife
How do you assume God is one organic being?
 
S

senzi

Guest
Jesus and the Father are not one because the H.S indwells them. There is not text of scripture that even implies this. The Unity of God as ONE God does not define a numeric value but a unity of parts.
With respect, understanding of grammatical words is not as reliable as holy spirit conviction. The bible tells us, Christ walked in the power of the spirit, he was led of the spirit, the miracles he performed were by the power of the spirit. Christ himself stated the believers would be one as he and his father were one. And believers can only be as one un the spirit. How were the OT prophets able to prophesy the words of God? By that same spirit. The difference is, the Holy Spirit fully resides in the perfect body of Christ. This is the difference between those led of the theological mind and those led of the spirit-those who rely on him for spiritual truth
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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With respect, understanding of grammatical words is not as reliable as holy spirit conviction. The bible tells us, Christ walked in the power of the spirit, he was led of the spirit, the miracles he performed were by the power of the spirit. Christ himself stated the believers would be one as he and his father were one. And believers can only be as one un the spirit. How were the OT prophets able to prophesy the words of God? By that same spirit. The difference is, the Holy Spirit fully resides in the perfect body of Christ. This is the difference between those led of the theological mubd and those led of the spirit-those who rely on him for spiritual truth
Well, I can see this is going nowhere. There is not one passage of scripture that even implies that the H.S still indwells Jesus. You are trying to build a theology around an assumption and I can assure you, you did not get this from the Holy Spirit. He does not contradict his written word.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
Don't forget

". . .and the Word was God. . .The Word became flesh. . ."
(Jn 1:1, 13)

in the man, Jesus of Nazareth, God the Son, and second of the three divine persons in the one true God.
can't forget the word was [with] God also before time.
". . .and the Word was God." (Jn 1:1)

God and the Word became the Father and Son now.
God doesn't "become."

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

just curious where the Holy spirts throne ever was or ever will be?
If it was a 3rd person would not the holy spirit have one,?

God and Christ have thrones, also many others but not him.


also how rude of the letter wrighters not to give greetings to the holy spirit,
like in the N.T. the Father and Son are mentioned in most every greetings.

also Jesus was sired by God, begotten, first of [many] brothern,

as the word was [with] God , he gave up his title, glory,became, and was passed in temptation,

could of lost what he gave, but because he loved us first, a suffering lamb, followed God in everything.

but now on the
hand of Gods throne, glory returned,[waiting for his turn] to rule Gods way.

If the holy spirit was a 3rd person, and not the very power of God,
then he would be called the son of the holy spirit, but it is not,

He is called the Son of God, and scripture can not be broken.

the word used Gods power , as directed to create from nothing.

Man's wisdom at its finest. . .

And the Holy Spirit was "another" Counselor/Comforter,
another like Jesus (Jn 14:16-17, 25-26, 15:26, 16:7), who is God and a person.

And the Holy Spirit goes out/issues from the Father (Jn 15:26),
just as Jesus did (Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 17:8), who is God and a person.

And the Holy Spirit is a divine person (Jn 16:13-14), just as Jesus was, with divine attributes of
omnipresence (1Co 3:16; Mt 28:20),
omniscience (1Co 2:10-11; Jn 16:13),
sovereignty (1Co 12:11; Jn 3:8),
omnipotence (Mt 12:28; Ro 8:11; Mt 28:18);
generating Christ's body and soul (Mt 1:18); with personal attributes of

intelligence (Lk 12:12; Jn 14:26, 15:26, 16:13; Ro 8:27; 1Co 2:12-13; 1Jn 2:20, 27),
will (Ac 16:6-7; 1Co 12:11), affections (Eph 4:30),
is sinned against (Ac 5:3; Mt 12:31-32); and with personal actions of

speaking, counseling, teaching, guiding, convicting, comforting
(Ac 8:29, 10:19-20, 11:12, 13:2, 21:11; Jn 14:16, 26, 15:26, 16:7),
deciding (Ac 15:28), forbidding (Ac 16:7), testifying (Jn 15:26, Ac 5:32; Ro 8:16; Heb 2:4),
searching into secrets (1Co 2:10 ff), showing the future (Jn 16:13b, 1Tim 4:1; 1Pe 1:11; 2Pe 1:21),
appointing and sending out missionaries (Ac 13:4, 20:28),
interceding (Ro 8:26-27), enabling (Ac 2:4; Ro 8:26), and leading (Gal 5:18).

Nothing would be happening in God's church without the divine person, God the Holy Spirit.


Peter and Paul say the Holy Spirit is God, the third divine person in the one God,
in Ac 28:25 where Paul says the Adonai of Isa 6:8-10 is the Holy Spirit, and
in Ac 5:3-4 where Peter says that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God.

The NT overwhelmingly presents the Holy Spirit as God, the third divine person in the one God.​
 
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Jan 19, 2013
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I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are upon the ground,

by [my great power] and by my outstretched arm,

and have given it unto whom it seemed meet unto me.


the Spirit is the very power of God, God gave this power to Jesus,

with no measure, even from the womb.

That's you talking.

The word of God says God gave Jesus the Spirit without measure.

 
Jan 19, 2013
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Now you are beginning to get to the heart of it.
This is the third time this has been presented to you.

If you agree that Logos/the Word is in fact the Holy Spirit,
then you are saying that Christ is also the Holy Spirit, because Logos is Christ.
I am saying the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all theone God,
that the word of God and the breath of God are all the one God.
 
S

senzi

Guest
Well, I can see this is going nowhere. There is not one passage of scripture that even implies that the H.S still indwells Jesus. You are trying to build a theology around an assumption and I can assure you, you did not get this from the Holy Spirit. He does not contradict his written word.
The holy spirit certainly does not contradict his written word. That is why solid ground is standing on scripture rather than the theologies of man. Incidentally the greatest power and most dramatic growth in the christian church was seen before the scholar and theologian came along, not after
However I agree, this conversation is going nowhere. You. Are convinced my beliefs are nit holy spirit inspired, I am convinced they are
God bless
 
Jan 19, 2013
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If you want to respond to a post it would be appropriate to respond to the point made, not ignore it and continually quote your one scripture, it kinda gets monotonous
No more so than your untruth. . .you got the point.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
And what in that version of 1Jn 5:7 is not found in the rest of God's word, which testifies that

there is but one God, in which there are three divine persons?
the only verse in the bible that says the three are one is that verse,

and was added to the bible from side notes, was not inspired word of God,

and I believe it says they might get a double curse for doing so
Non-responsive. . .
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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That's you talking.

The word of God says God gave Jesus the Spirit without measure.

no that is a bible verse above.

yes The word of God says God gave Jesus the Spirit without measure,

never said he did not, verse says the spirit is Gods great power, and gave to Jesus.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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i agree, he didnt act rude, he backed his words with scripture but rather than question and test his viewpoint he was silenced.
Yep. . .it's not a matter of debate. . .it's a matter forever settled in heaven.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Let us begin here. These arguments and comments do not originate with me. I have them from a professor of New Testament Greek. I have taken the liberty to rework some of the arguments and added some of my own comments and observations from the grammar.

εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος
"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."

There are a couple things you need to know about Greek syntax in order to understand what John is really saying in this verse. First, Koine Greek normally drops the article in a prepositional phrase. The absence of the article in a prepositional phrase is normal in the Greek, and doesn't mean anything. It is the INCLUSION of the article in a prepositional phrase that is unusual, so when John includes the use of the article in these prepositional phrases it means something.

The prepositional phrase "εν αρχη" (in beginning) doesn't contain an article, but is still properly translated "in the beginning." The prepositional phrase "προς τον θεον," (was with the God) however, does include the article (τον). Since it was proper not to include it, the INCLSION then of the article here means something. In general, the inclusion of an article when it is not expected means he is being very specific about a particular individual who is God. In order to fully understand how that effects this verse, we need to go to the last clause. To understand the implications of the last clause, you need to understand Greek syntax. First, Greek distinguishes the role a noun plays in a sentence by changing the case. In general, if the noun is the subject, it is in the nominative case. If it is the direct object, it is in the accusative case. However, there is a strange class of verbs that do not take a direct object, they take a predicate. There are three verbs that do this in Koine Greek. This means that you have two nouns that are the same case (nominative), where one is the subject, and one is the predicate. So if both are in the same case, how do you know which is the subject, and which is the predicate?

Here are the rules (Notice, I said these are rules. You can't ignore them, you can't change them, you can't remove them, and you can't add to them!)
1. If both nouns have the article attached, then the first is the subject, the second is the predicate.
2. If NEITHER noun has the article attached, then the first is the subject, the second is the predicate.
3. If one has an article, but the other does not, then the one WITH the article is the subject, and the one without the article is the predicate.

So in the phrase "και θεος ην ο λογος", we see that λογος has an article (o) and θεος does not. Thus, o λογος is the subject, while θεος is the predicate.

Are you with me so far?
Yep. . ."Word" is the subject, and "God" is the predicate. . . "and the Word was God."