POPE FRANCIS SAYS ATHEISTS WHO DO GOOD ARE REDEEMED, NOT JUST CATHOLICS

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Jun 30, 2011
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#41
Who really cares what this pope says, honestly does it mean anything more than the tripe we hear from moralism in the churches? Our good outside Christ is a steaming pile of dog flop. An atheist will think he's doing good all the way to hell, and it's really horrible when someone who claims Christ tells him that he's just fine.
 
Oct 6, 2012
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#42
Who really cares what this pope says, honestly does it mean anything more than the tripe we hear from moralism in the churches? Our good outside Christ is a steaming pile of dog flop. An atheist will think he's doing good all the way to hell, and it's really horrible when someone who claims Christ tells him that he's just fine.
Can you say what you feel next time and no more of this nondescript middle of the road type stuff :p
 
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7seven7

Guest
#43
Psalms chapter 19:1-3 “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard.”

Romans 2:15 “The law is written on every man’s heart.”

Romans 1:18-20 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.”

Everybody alive knows the difference between right and wrong...
So they will be judged. I agree.
 
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hopesprings

Guest
#44
Just a quick question to everybody That I have asked before on other threads and been ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED with the response of "Christians". What do you think happens to those tribes who live so far out in the wilderness that they have never seen another human and have therefore never been told about Christ? Don't tell me they don't exist, because they do. They exist here in Australia too......... the grass-people they're called. What do you believe happens to these people when they die? How will they be judged? Or will they be judged at all? Don't forget, they don't know Christ, so they don't believe in Him.
"We know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him." C.S Lewis

I like that quote :)
 
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7seven7

Guest
#45
Who really cares what this pope says, honestly does it mean anything more than the tripe we hear from moralism in the churches? Our good outside Christ is a steaming pile of dog flop. An atheist will think he's doing good all the way to hell, and it's really horrible when someone who claims Christ tells him that he's just fine.
Nobody who claims Christ has told the athiest he is just fine, champ. But I think its really horrible and disgusting and MISLEADING when a person who claims Christ has already done the judging for God when we are so clearly told in the Bible to not judge. Instead of praying for these people who haven't had the privillage of knowing Christ, you're so quick to damn them to hell. Brother, show some love and compassion instead of coming accross as so eager to say the word "hell". These people need prayers, not condemnation. Pray for them, and I will pray for you. Peace. And God bless!
 
Mar 26, 2013
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#46
Nobody who claims Christ has told the athiest he is just fine, champ. But I think its really horrible and disgusting and MISLEADING when a person who claims Christ has already done the judging for God when we are so clearly told in the Bible to not judge. Instead of praying for these people who haven't had the privillage of knowing Christ, you're so quick to damn them to hell. Brother, show some love and compassion instead of coming accross as so eager to say the word "hell". These people need prayers, not condemnation. Pray for them, and I will pray for you. Peace. And God bless!
THANK YOU!
 
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7seven7

Guest
#47
"We know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him." C.S Lewis

I like that quote :)
I LOVE THIS!!!!! God bless you, sister. Very very true
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#48
Nobody who claims Christ has told the athiest he is just fine, champ. But I think its really horrible and disgusting and MISLEADING when a person who claims Christ has already done the judging for God when we are so clearly told in the Bible to not judge. Instead of praying for these people who haven't had the privillage of knowing Christ, you're so quick to damn them to hell. Brother, show some love and compassion instead of coming accross as so eager to say the word "hell". These people need prayers, not condemnation. Pray for them, and I will pray for you. Peace. And God bless!
The bible has already judged the atheist. The atheist says positively 'there is no god'. The bible not only calls him a fool but Romans has placed them under condemnation. Not only the atheist but all our works are as filthy rags apart from Christ's righteousness.
 
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7seven7

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#49
The bible has already judged the atheist. The atheist says positively 'there is no god'. The bible not only calls him a fool but Romans has placed them under condemnation. Not only the atheist but all our works are as filthy rags apart from Christ's righteousness.
So they're condemned already without any chance of salvation? This is what I'm saying to you. You believe it to be like this. PRAY FOR THEM!!! I have never met a bigger athiest than I was and I was saved through the prayers of my mother and brothers and sisters. If all they ever did was say I'm damned to hell, there is no way I would ever have turned to their faith because it would've seemed so hateful towards me. And what about those tribes? They have no way of knowing the Bible and Christ. What if they show complete love and mercy all their lives toward others? I already know what you're going to say because I can almost hear you scratching that itch to say that 'H' word again!

LORD GRANT US THE WISDOM AND UNDERSTANDING TO COMPREHEND THE LEVEL OF LOVE YOU SHOW TO EVERYONE YOU HAVE CREATED!! WE KNOW THAT YOU DON'T SEARCH FOR REASONS TO DAMN US TO THE ETERNAL FIRE.... INSTEAD, YOU SEARCH FOR A REASON TO BRING US HOME TO YOU! PRAISE BE TO YOU FOREVER LORD JESUS!!!
 
Oct 28, 2012
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#50
what is funny is that GOD HIMSELF has made a way and that way is through my LORD JESUS CHRIST..... PERIOD!!!

what is also funny is that the WHOLE WORLD has received the good news... for GOD'S OWN HOLY WORD states that there is no excuse for NO ONE AT ALL IN THIS ENTIRE WORLD... for the WHOLE WORLD has received the GOOD NEWS... or is my FATHER IN HEAVEN LYING.....

there are actually 4 groups that will be saved...

1. BRIDE... which comes out of the Church Body in a RAPTURE before the great tribulation. ( Holy Spirit filled Christians )
2. the Church Body that shall go through the great tribulation. ( non Holy Spirit filled Christians )
3. those who don't take the mark of the beast ( the world population who refuses to worship the world/satan... finally )
4. those that are mentioned in Matthew 25:31-46. ( atheists, non believers, etc... )
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
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#51
Pope says Christians must recognize good others do, work with them

VATICAN CITY (CNS) --
Christians are called to welcome and cooperate with the good accomplished by members of other religions or no religion at all, promoting a culture of dialogue and peace, Pope Francis said.

"We are all children of God -- all of us. And God loves us -- all of us," the pope said in his homily May 22 during an early morning Mass in the chapel of the Domus Sanctae Marthae.

Pope Francis' homily focused on the day's Gospel story from Mark 9:38-40, which recounts the disciples complaining to Jesus about outsiders casting out demons in Jesus' name and Jesus telling the disciples, "Whoever is not against us is for us."

The pope said that by saying, "If he's not one of us, he cannot do good; if he's not in our party, he can't do good," the disciples were "a bit intolerant, closed in the idea of possessing the truth, in the conviction that 'all those who do not have the truth cannot do good.'"

However, the pope said, "the possibility of doing good is something we all have" as individuals created in the image and likeness of God.

All people are called to do good and not evil, the pope said. Some would object, "'but, Father, he isn't Catholic so he can't do good.' Yes, he can. He must."

The idea that others cannot really be good and do good in the world creates "a wall that leads to war and to something that historically some people have thought: that we can kill in the name of God. And that, simply, is blasphemy. To say that one can kill in God's name is blasphemy."

"The Lord has redeemed us all with the blood of Christ, all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone," he said. Some may ask, "'Father, even the atheists?' Them, too. Everyone."

The commandment to do good and avoid evil is something that binds all human beings, he said, and it is "a beautiful path to peace."

Noticing the good others do, affirming them and working with them promotes an encounter that is good for individuals and societies, he said. "Little by little we build that culture of encounter that we need so much."

Someone can object, "'But I don't believe, Father, I'm an atheist.' But do good and we'll meet there," he said.

Noting that May 22 was the feast of St. Rita of Cascia, sometimes called the saint of impossible causes, the pope asked the small congregation to pray for "this grace that everyone, all persons would do good and that we would encounter each other in this work."


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Maynard,

Thanks for posting the entire article, with some meat to it.

Well, since the Pope actually said this stuff, and it's verified and everything, it's obviously going to be a pretty big issues for Catholics.

I'm not Catholic, so I don't generally worry about, or get involved with, whatever the Pope is doing.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#52
So they're condemned already without any chance of salvation? This is what I'm saying to you. You believe it to be like this. PRAY FOR THEM!!! I have never met a bigger athiest than I was and I was saved through the prayers of my mother and brothers and sisters. If all they ever did was say I'm damned to hell, there is no way I would ever have turned to their faith because it would've seemed so hateful towards me. And what about those tribes? They have no way of knowing the Bible and Christ. What if they show complete love and mercy all their lives toward others? I already know what you're going to say because I can almost hear you scratching that itch to say that 'H' word again!

LORD GRANT US THE WISDOM AND UNDERSTANDING TO COMPREHEND THE LEVEL OF LOVE YOU SHOW TO EVERYONE YOU HAVE CREATED!! WE KNOW THAT YOU DON'T SEARCH FOR REASONS TO DAMN US TO THE ETERNAL FIRE.... INSTEAD, YOU SEARCH FOR A REASON TO BRING US HOME TO YOU! PRAISE BE TO YOU FOREVER LORD JESUS!!!
Thanks for going personal and putting words in my mouth when all I was doing was referring to Scripture.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#53
I wonder how the Pope would integrate this into his homily?

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#54
like i already said...i really doubt that francis was endorsing universalism when he said that christ redeemed all people...more likely he was just talking about 'objective justification'

however it seems to me that he contradicted scripture when he said that atheists do 'good'...isaiah 64:6 says that all our righteous deeds are like filthy rags...without christ we aren't capable of truly doing good by God's standard...

and i am also alarmed by the fact that francis is now being seen as 'reaching out' to atheists...after all of the attacks that atheists have made against christianity... atheists have been making war against christianity for some time now...but it seems that francis doesn't realize that he is at war...

unlike his predecessor benedict xvi...francis just doesn't sound like he 'gets it'...

i am also noticing lately these recent 'stunts'...such as washing muslims' feet and 'reaching out' to atheists...that seem to have little to do with sound theology and a lot to do with francis getting good press for himself and his church... he is starting to look like a publicity hound...which makes me wonder how much of his 'humility' prior to becoming pope was actually real...

i don't know...at this point i think benedict was better...
 
Jan 17, 2013
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#55
^ Wow. You'll damn him if he do, and you'll damn him if he don't. How sad for you.

Seriously? We're "at war" with atheists so he should be on the offensive against them, attacking them and anyone who doesn't agree with Christianity?

Are you the same person who said a while back that we shouldn't share the gospel of Christ with atheists because they're non-believers? That's just silly.

Washing the feet of youths in a detention center, including Muslim youth is a 'stunt' and has little to do with sound theology? Ugh. You'd do well following his example and Christ's by demonstrating a little humility instead of this bitter arrogance and exclusiveness you preach, Rachel "biblestudent".
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#56
^ Wow. You'll damn him if he do, and you'll damn him if he don't. How sad for you.

Seriously? We're "at war" with atheists so he should be on the offensive against them, attacking them and anyone who doesn't agree with Christianity?

Are you the same person who said a while back that we shouldn't share the gospel of Christ with atheists because they're non-believers? That's just silly.

Washing the feet of youths in a detention center, including Muslim youth is a 'stunt' and has little to do with sound theology? Ugh. You'd do well following his example and Christ's by demonstrating a little humility instead of this bitter arrogance and exclusiveness you preach, Rachel "biblestudent".
like i said...benedict seemed to 'get it' when it came to secularism's war against christianity...for example he spoke out against the 'dictatorship of relativism'...francis on the other hand doesn't seem to get it...and his comments could be taken as an embracing of relativism...

francis is giving the atheists an inch...and i fully expect them to take a mile...

i am not the person you are referring to...i think we -do- need to share the gospel with atheists...certainly it will accomplish more than 'building a culture of encounter' that seems to be directed at a purely earthly outcome...that in particular sounds very 'emergent churchy' to me...

when jesus washed his disciples' feet...he told them to do that for each other...he never said anything about doing that for the unsaved...so theologically it is dubious...

and i wonder when francis will go to the prisons in saudi arabia where there are no cameras or reporters and wash the feet of the christians who have been put in prison by the muslims there...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#57
it's not like i am automatically against everything any pope does...because like i already said i approved of benedict's attitude towards secularism...

but for various reasons i have suspicions about francis that most catholics who are trained not to question the pope just cannot understand...for one thing he comes from the home of left wing liberation theology...and the secular media has been portraying him as something like a roman catholic obama...

so i can't help it if 'closet liberal' comes to mind sometimes...and francis' attempts at 'reaching out' to atheists and muslims with something -other than the gospel- doesn't help allay my suspicions about that...
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#58
it's not like i am automatically against everything any pope does...because like i already said i approved of benedict's attitude towards secularism...

but for various reasons i have suspicions about francis that most catholics who are trained not to question the pope just cannot understand...for one thing he comes from the home of left wing liberation theology...and the secular media has been portraying him as something like a roman catholic obama...

so i can't help it if 'closet liberal' comes to mind sometimes...and francis' attempts at 'reaching out' to atheists and muslims with something -other than the gospel- doesn't help allay my suspicions about that...
Closet liberal? Seems to me, Classical liberal suits well. Universal brotherhood of all men, deeds over creeds, etc. etc.
 
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7seven7

Guest
#59
Thanks for going personal and putting words in my mouth when all I was doing was referring to Scripture.
That wasn't going personal. It wasn't a personal attack. And if I put words in your mouth, please tell me how I misinterpreted your comment. Here is the comment you put that I replied to:

"The bible has already judged the atheist. The atheist says positively 'there is no god'. The bible not only calls him a fool but Romans has placed them under condemnation. Not only the atheist but all our works are as filthy rags apart from Christ's righteousness."

Brother, there are many many parts in scripture that come together to teach lessons. We cannot just take one verse and say THAT'S IT, THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HELL, when in SO MANY other parts of the Bible we're told to not judge and to show love to one another and SPREAD THE GOOD WORD. We shouldn't concentrate on the condemnation of others but on their peace and well being, physically and spiritually, and in praying we should work toward their salvation, as well as ours. This will never happen if we separate ourselves from them, which pope Francis so beautifully understands.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,712
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#60
1st comment
So they're condemned already without any chance of salvation? This is what I'm saying to you. You believe it to be like this. PRAY FOR THEM!!! I have never met a bigger athiest than I was and I was saved through the prayers of my mother and brothers and sisters. If all they ever did was say I'm damned to hell, there is no way I would ever have turned to their faith because it would've seemed so hateful towards me. And what about those tribes? They have no way of knowing the Bible and Christ. What if they show complete love and mercy all their lives toward others? I already know what you're going to say because I can almost hear you scratching that itch to say that 'H' word again!

2nd comment
That wasn't going personal. It wasn't a personal attack. And if I put words in your mouth, please tell me how I misinterpreted your comment. Here is the comment you put that I replied to:

"The bible has already judged the atheist. The atheist says positively 'there is no god'. The bible not only calls him a fool but Romans has placed them under condemnation. Not only the atheist but all our works are as filthy rags apart from Christ's righteousness."

Brother, there are many many parts in scripture that come together to teach lessons. We cannot just take one verse and say THAT'S IT, THESE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HELL, when in SO MANY other parts of the Bible we're told to not judge and to show love to one another and THE GOOD WORD. We shouldn't concentrate on the condemnation of others but on their peace and well being, physically and spiritually, and in praying we should work toward their salvation, as well as ours. This will never happen if we separate ourselves from them, which pope Francis so beautifully understands.
1. I never said the atheist has no chance of salvation. (I was one)presumption yours
2.I do pray for them (my dad is one for instance)
3. You stated ''I already know what you're going to say because I can almost hear you scratching that itch to say that 'H' word again!'' ...again presumption yours

So let's try to keep off the personal presumptions. If you don't know, ask.

There are many clear warnings in Scripture of the danger that lie ahead of those who die rejecting the Gospel.
Christ did not die to rescue us from God's love but from His wrath and if we are not clear in our warning then we are not loving the one who needs saving.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(Joh 3:18)

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
(Rev 21:8)