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G
not until Paul preached it to them I'm sure, and there be still some today that have yet to hear about Christ. The thing is those that have neither the Law nor heard about Christ still go by their conscience, explained better in Romans:
Rom 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
Rom 2:15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
Most Atheists I have met seem to not even have a conscience. Like I said before, there is a difference between an Atheist and those who have not heard about Christ, that is Gentiles......all Gentiles have some belief in some sought of God, not an Atheist, they do not believe in any God, gods or supreme being of any sought.....big difference. It's early bells here so not sure if I'm making sense.
Rom 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
Rom 2:15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
Most Atheists I have met seem to not even have a conscience. Like I said before, there is a difference between an Atheist and those who have not heard about Christ, that is Gentiles......all Gentiles have some belief in some sought of God, not an Atheist, they do not believe in any God, gods or supreme being of any sought.....big difference. It's early bells here so not sure if I'm making sense.
Quick to anger, quick to speak, quick to chastise, quick to assume and slow to listen! You ask if excited ? No I for one am saddened. Not at the pope, for i strive to be contempt in all things like Paul, but sad for Gods people who are in pride and strife here... Its not about my faith or your faith,, its about Jesus!
Where's the love?
Where's the love?
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Ok, brother, as much as I really don't want to keep going on about this, I will just say this about your sigh. My page doesn't allow me to go back far enough to find you a post of your's that condemns others to hell or something very close to. The reason my page won't allow me to go back far enough is because I have not allowed myself to get into a conversation with you for so long, reason being that you have shown so much bitterness towards anyone who doesn't share the same beliefs as you, especially Catholics, resulting in you speaking to them in a way which lifts you up higher than them (in your own mind i suppose). But if i could go back far enough, rest assured, I would have no problem finding a post of yours of this nature. There is still no hatred from me toward you, brother, just a hesitance to converse with you for the risk of showing any anger or hatred.
Now, for the next part, I don't only speak of the good works of athiests. Good works are futile for ANYBODY if its for the soul purpose of any sort of gain. That's complete selfishness. But good works done out of pureness of the heart, which I think is what is being spoken of here- and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them [SUP]16 [/SUP]on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.-"will accuse or perhaps excuse them", as Paul states. Now I'm not trying to make excuses for these people. I know plenty of athiests, and it is so clear that the Holy Spirit is just busting to break through that barrier put up by the worldly ignorance that these people are surrounded with which makes them think that there is no need for a God. And this is so clear because the pureness of their hearts in indeed incredible. The ONLY THING MISSING in their lives is the full knowledge of the love our Lord has for them. The fact that their hearts are so pure and full of love will NOT be forgotten in the day of judgement, I don't think anyway. But there's no way that I can be sure. Again:
"Romans 2:14-23
[SUP]14 [/SUP]When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves.[SUP]15 [/SUP]They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness;and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them [SUP]16 [/SUP]on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.
The goodness of the Law, the goodness of God, is written on their hearts. God loves them just like He loves us.
Now, for the next part, I don't only speak of the good works of athiests. Good works are futile for ANYBODY if its for the soul purpose of any sort of gain. That's complete selfishness. But good works done out of pureness of the heart, which I think is what is being spoken of here- and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them [SUP]16 [/SUP]on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.-"will accuse or perhaps excuse them", as Paul states. Now I'm not trying to make excuses for these people. I know plenty of athiests, and it is so clear that the Holy Spirit is just busting to break through that barrier put up by the worldly ignorance that these people are surrounded with which makes them think that there is no need for a God. And this is so clear because the pureness of their hearts in indeed incredible. The ONLY THING MISSING in their lives is the full knowledge of the love our Lord has for them. The fact that their hearts are so pure and full of love will NOT be forgotten in the day of judgement, I don't think anyway. But there's no way that I can be sure. Again:
"Romans 2:14-23
[SUP]14 [/SUP]When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves.[SUP]15 [/SUP]They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness;and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them [SUP]16 [/SUP]on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.
The goodness of the Law, the goodness of God, is written on their hearts. God loves them just like He loves us.
7
Ok yep, I do understand what you mean and you do make sense. But that's not saying that I agree. First of all, there were Gentiles walking the same streets as Jesus at the same time as Him. They knew about Him long before Paul told them. But as far as your comment goes about the athiests, I know what you mean when you say most athiests you have met seem to not even have a consience. But there are plenty who do have a conscience and show love and compassion towards others. There are plenty of Christians who don't have a conscience lol. What is in our hearts will play a HUGE role in how we are judged, whether we be Christian, athiest, or whatever, because its what was in the heart when we did or din't do something that makes it righteous or not (I hope that makes sense). Again, thats just my understanding of God through scripture. Don't quote me on it on judgement day! (unless I'm right lol). God bless!
7
I'm pretty sure that Pope Francis has every passage of the Bible in mind when he speaks. He is extremely well learned and versed in scripture, which is why when it comes to scripture and the Truth, I would rather learn from him and anybody else who is as well learned as him. He doesn't only have ONE passage in mind when talking..... he has THEM ALL in mind, allowing him to piece the message together a lot more effectively than most people I know, connecting passages together from all over the Bible to get the FULLNESS OF TRUTH, or very close to it. God bless you and Pope Francis!
You could use the search feature only to find I have not condemned anyone to hell, but fine go on misrepresenting me, God judges.
As far as the the so called pure hearts of unbelievers go, hear Paul once again in Romans...
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
(Rom 3:9-18)
God has concluded ALL under sin (atheist included) and their only hope is to come in repentance to the free Gift of forgiveness offered through Jesus Christ.
As far as the the so called pure hearts of unbelievers go, hear Paul once again in Romans...
What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
(Rom 3:9-18)
God has concluded ALL under sin (atheist included) and their only hope is to come in repentance to the free Gift of forgiveness offered through Jesus Christ.
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I'm here first and foremost to fellowship with my brothers and sisters in Christ (well those who are willing to do so in love anyway). And I'm here to meet and discuss and learn. I will learn from anyone who knows more than I do and gives a legitimate position on any discussion. Are you not here to learn aswell? Or do you not need teaching? You see, crossnote, for me its not a game of Catholics vs. non-Catholic/anti-Catholics. Rather it is US as a FAMILY against the forces of evil and encouraging eachother to stay strong in our faith and love for one another. Unfortunately I find myself all too often being offended by my brothers and sisters who don't like the Catholic Church, therefore find myself defending my faith when they tell me that this Church which I am a part of is not Christian, or when they continuously attack the Pope, whom I look to as a leader (a leader among equals) for guidance, just like many other Christians look to their pastors for guidance. And yes, if the Truth in the Catholic Church helps, which it does, then I will most certainly share it with you. But to answer your question, no, I am not here ONLY to learn, but am enjoying learning so much.
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So you're saying that Rom 3:9-18 means that this.........:
Romans 2:14-23
[SUP]14 [/SUP]When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves.[SUP]15 [/SUP]They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness;and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them [SUP]16 [/SUP]on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.
.......is no longer valid? I think that this is a typical example of how verses are plucked out of the Bible all the time to suit one's argument or belief, instead of being combined as a whole and studied for 2000 years to be fully (or almost fully) understood. We will never agree on this, crossnote. Peace.
Romans 2:14-23
[SUP]14 [/SUP]When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves.[SUP]15 [/SUP]They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness;and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them [SUP]16 [/SUP]on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.
.......is no longer valid? I think that this is a typical example of how verses are plucked out of the Bible all the time to suit one's argument or belief, instead of being combined as a whole and studied for 2000 years to be fully (or almost fully) understood. We will never agree on this, crossnote. Peace.
H
There's no reason we should set someone up as an authority of us concerning God's message to us. We're all educated in this day and age and have the same access as Pope Francis to scriptures and even the ancient Hebrew and Greek texts. I certainly don't agree with many of the Catholic doctrines; hence, I'd not be learning from someone who teaches doctrines I don't believe are scriptural.
That's the problem with so much of Christianity today. Everyone doing it on their own, interpreting scripture according to their own erroneous understanding, refusing the authority and foundation which Christ set forth. This forum is a good example of how dangerous that is. Everyone inventing their own silly speculative doctrines. So much heresy here. Christ never intended it to be like that. That's why he gave the keys to Peter and built his Church upon that rock who is Peter and those who directly succeeded him, i.e. the Catholic Church and Pope Francis today who is the 265th successor to Peter. THAT is the authority to interpret and teach scripture. NOT HollyLoree.
That's exactly what cults are made of...blindly following the leader. Here is the better way...
And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
(Act 17:10-11)
You see they were commended in that searched the Scriptures to test the teachings of the Apostles...how much more should the teachings of the Pope be tested and not taken blindly.
Remember this is a response to your posted attack on 'so much of Christianity'.
And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
(Act 17:10-11)
You see they were commended in that searched the Scriptures to test the teachings of the Apostles...how much more should the teachings of the Pope be tested and not taken blindly.
Remember this is a response to your posted attack on 'so much of Christianity'.
Those were learned men, crossnote, who learned scripture according to the AUTHORITY of those who taught them. They weren't just winging it, like you.
This is a far more applicable example for you, crossnote.
Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked. “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?”
Acts 8:30-31
This is a far more applicable example for you, crossnote.
Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked. “How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?”
Acts 8:30-31
Therefore let us all just keep discerning between flesh and the Spirit of God , recognize when we walk in the flesh to others and when we see this apologize to one another keeping the unity of peace and share with each other to helpeach other grow in the Love of God.
Romans 5:8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 8:34Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
2 Corinthians 5:14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
Romans 5:8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 8:34Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
2 Corinthians 5:14For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.
Good works are only from God and by God period. Outside of God there is no one good no not one and Christ even said this that htere is only one good and that is his Father whom today by his death and resurrection has translated the believer to Father as righteous in Father's sight by the resurrected Christ being now you resurrected by God's Spirit, if youbelieve God.
Matthew 19:17So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
Mark 10:18So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
Matthew 19:17So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
Mark 10:18So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.