POPE FRANCIS SAYS ATHEISTS WHO DO GOOD ARE REDEEMED, NOT JUST CATHOLICS

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May 17, 2013
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The Jews picked up rocks to stone Jesus. Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good deeds from my Father. For which of these are you trying to stone me?"

And why did they want to stone him? Because he said he is what comes from God, and the proof was in what he did, yet they still tried to slander him. That tells me that a man (in Jesus' eyes) should be defined for what he does, not whether he fits a certain box or whether he doesn't.
 
G

Graybeard

Guest
.........
What has he twisted? He said it almost exactly as Jesus did.

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I like the way you say "he said it almost exactly as Jesus did"...that is the problem, almost is not the same....that's how Scripture gets twisted. You even posted the Scripture in question below, here is the difference, Jesus said they were doing it IN HIS NAME, the pope somehow excluded that fact and said they were just "doing good".....sorry, but atheists do not do good in Jesus's Name

'Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.
Mar 9:40 For he who is not against us is on our side'
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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Nobody who claims Christ has told the athiest he is just fine, champ. But I think its really horrible and disgusting and MISLEADING when a person who claims Christ has already done the judging for God when we are so clearly told in the Bible to not judge. Instead of praying for these people who haven't had the privillage of knowing Christ, you're so quick to damn them to hell. Brother, show some love and compassion instead of coming accross as so eager to say the word "hell". These people need prayers, not condemnation. Pray for them, and I will pray for you. Peace. And God bless!
It may be clear to you sir, but it is not correct. The Bible does not tell us not to judge others, just like it doesn't say that money is the root of all evil. It says to remove the log out of your own eye first so you can see clearly to remove the speck out of the other person's eye. It says don't be a hypocrite by doing the same thing that you condemned others for. It say that the measure in which you use on others will be used on you. It says not to strain out a gnat and swallow a camel. Basically, the 'don't judge others' has to do with walking in love rather than hypocrisy. There is more to it than that, but I believe, that's the gist of it. Most people that judge others in the manner in which Jesus condemned, do so without mercy, condemning without regard or the love of God toward the other person. They are more concerned about their laws, truths of God, legalities, rules, denominational doctrines, beliefs, and the like, than they are for/toward the person they are judging. I often think of these people to be somewhat mindless, because they act like they can't think for themselves. There is a reason why we don't have computers in judges seats that look at an equation and come up with the solution, based on a simple program. Such as a vehicle going through a red light. Program says if vehicle is in intersection when light is red, then, they are guilty. Computer sees vehicle in intersection when light is red.... guilty!!! Printing citation and mailing it to the person that didn't drive the car that night. That is all it sees and that is all it considers. In like manner, people judging others without godly character, seeing and considering only what the law says, only they have omitted the weightier matters of the law, [that being] judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Joh 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Joh 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Where was the man?!
Joh 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Joh 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Joh 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
Joh 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
To the Scribes and Pharisees, it was all about what the law/program said.
To Jesus, it was about love and mercy.
Has He changed?!

I'm not agreeing with what the Pope said if he was saying that the atheists are children of God too and will go to heaven because they are redeemed by the blood of Jesus, but that we need to walk in the love of God, if the love of God be in you.
 
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crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Just seeking for us all to keep the unity
1 Corinthians 12:13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Now we can say, one body whether we be Catholic. Protestant, Jewish, Baptist, or any other denomination that preaches Christ. Because those that are seeking Christ they will find him for God the Father leads us all to his Son and we all get to make the choice to whether we beleive God or we don't
Do you agree?
as long as it is not another Gospel as in Gal. 1 Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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Mar 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good?there isnone good but one,that is,God.
 
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7seven7

Guest
no, Rome makes the mistake in interpreting what Christ told Peter, and the incident with Paul confronting Peter only serves to help illusrate that point.
The incident with Paul only serves to illustrate the point being that even though Christ gave Peter the keys, Peter remained human and was still very capable of making mistakes. But his teachings were True! and his interpretations of scripture were always correct! and all this just like the popes who succeeded him, led by the Holy Spirit. It illustrates that just like some of the popes who succeeded him, he still had some earthly weaknesses..... something we Catholics don't deny! Rome made no mistake in interpreting what Christ told Peter. When you study scripture for 2000 years, crossnote, then I will pay attention to your finger pointing and criticizing of a Church with 2000 years of history. Its not only about the interpretation of that one verse. Its the thousands of other verses that go hand in hand with that one verse to give it it's true meaning. And so far, as far as Church teachings go, I have found none with the backing and explanations that equal the Catholic Church. True Faith, True Hope and True Love though, I have truly seen from members from all Churches. And that is a relief! God bless
 
7

7seven7

Guest
It may be clear to you sir, but it is not correct. The Bible does not tell us not to judge others, just like it doesn't say that money is the root of all evil. It says to remove the log out of your own eye first so you can see clearly to remove the speck out of the other person's eye. It says don't be a hypocrite by doing the same thing that you condemned others for. It say that the measure in which you use on others will be used on you. It says not to strain out a gnat and swallow a camel. Basically, the 'don't judge others' has to do with walking in love rather than hypocrisy. There is more to it than that, but I believe, that's the gist of it. Most people that judge others in the manner in which Jesus condemned, do so without mercy, condemning without regard or the love of God toward the other person. They are more concerned about their laws, truths of God, legalities, rules, denominational doctrines, beliefs, and the like, than they are for/toward the person they are judging. I often think of these people to be somewhat mindless, because they act like they can't think for themselves. There is a reason why we don't have computers in judges seats that look at an equation and come up with the solution, based on a simple program. Such as a vehicle going through a red light. Program says if vehicle is in intersection when light is red, then, they are guilty. Computer sees vehicle in intersection when light is red.... guilty!!! Printing citation and mailing it to the person that didn't drive the car that night. That is all it sees and that is all it considers. In like manner, people judging others without godly character, seeing and considering only what the law says, only they have omitted the weightier matters of the law, [that being] judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Joh 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Joh 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Where was the man?!
Joh 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Joh 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Joh 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
Joh 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
Joh 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
To the Scribes and Pharisees, it was all about what the law/program said.
To Jesus, it was about love and mercy.
Has He changed?!

I'm not agreeing with what the Pope said if he was saying that the atheists are children of God too and will go to heaven because they are redeemed by the blood of Jesus, but that we need to walk in the love of God, if the love of God be in you.
I dont agree with you. Athiests ARE children of God too! Lost, maybe! But His children nevertheless!!! Make no mistake, we ALL belong to God. When I rebelled against my father here on earth, I was still his son, even though at times I said I didn't want that. And he showed me love and mercy regardless of all the hurtful things I used to say to him (God rest his soul). If my earthly father was this merciful to me, a wretched rotten son I was, even when I didn't want his mercy, and KEPT CALLING ME HIS SON, how much more merciful then and how much greater than my earthly father is our heavenly father? Make no mistake, we are all His children. Athiests and Muslims included.
 

JaumeJ

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Jul 2, 2011
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This declaration is anti-Christ. None of us are God's children until we name Jesus Christ, Yeshua, as our Savior, and only then are we gifted the power to become God's "adoptive" children. Read the Word, believe the Word, and do not follow the gospel of any other, not that there is another gospel.


I dont agree with you. Athiests ARE children of God too! Lost, maybe! But His children nevertheless!!! Make no mistake, we ALL belong to God. When I rebelled against my father here on earth, I was still his son, even though at times I said I didn't want that. And he showed me love and mercy regardless of all the hurtful things I used to say to him (God rest his soul). If my earthly father was this merciful to me, a wretched rotten son I was, even when I didn't want his mercy, and KEPT CALLING ME HIS SON, how much more merciful then and how much greater than my earthly father is our heavenly father? Make no mistake, we are all His children. Athiests and Muslims included.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I dont agree with you. Athiests ARE children of God too! Lost, maybe! But His children nevertheless!!! Make no mistake, we ALL belong to God. When I rebelled against my father here on earth, I was still his son, even though at times I said I didn't want that. And he showed me love and mercy regardless of all the hurtful things I used to say to him (God rest his soul). If my earthly father was this merciful to me, a wretched rotten son I was, even when I didn't want his mercy, and KEPT CALLING ME HIS SON, how much more merciful then and how much greater than my earthly father is our heavenly father? Make no mistake, we are all His children. Athiests and Muslims included.
we are sons through faith in the Gospel ...period.New birth and all that.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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The incident with Paul only serves to illustrate the point being that even though Christ gave Peter the keys, Peter remained human and was still very capable of making mistakes. But his teachings were True! and his interpretations of scripture were always correct! and all this just like the popes who succeeded him, led by the Holy Spirit. It illustrates that just like some of the popes who succeeded him, he still had some earthly weaknesses..... something we Catholics don't deny! Rome made no mistake in interpreting what Christ told Peter. When you study scripture for 2000 years, crossnote, then I will pay attention to your finger pointing and criticizing of a Church with 2000 years of history. Its not only about the interpretation of that one verse. Its the thousands of other verses that go hand in hand with that one verse to give it it's true meaning. And so far, as far as Church teachings go, I have found none with the backing and explanations that equal the Catholic Church. True Faith, True Hope and True Love though, I have truly seen from members from all Churches. And that is a relief! God bless
I don't recall Peter and Paul living in luxury or Jesus either as the Popes have down thru history. Fine successors and examples that lot turned out to be.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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The Jews picked up rocks to stone Jesus. Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good deeds from my Father. For which of these are you trying to stone me?"

And why did they want to stone him? Because he said he is what comes from God, and the proof was in what he did, yet they still tried to slander him. That tells me that a man (in Jesus' eyes) should be defined for what he does, not whether he fits a certain box or whether he doesn't.
Going to a Church or any Church sitting in the pew going up to altar call, showing others you beleive, by quoting scripture no more makes one a beleiver in Christ anymore than one going to a hen house make one a hen.
You either believe or you do not, and all will be revealed to who is in him and who acted as if they were.Today is the day to beleive and search out truth, no more acting and or faking, for every knee shall bow and every tongue confess

True taberancle is in heaven not here on earth
[h=3]Hebrews 8:1-4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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as long as it is not another Gospel as in Gal. 1 Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Yes and not for us to curse them,no not at all, only for us to show what this true Gospel is and a many today are in works of self program convinced they are not doing self works.When they are
Galatians 3:2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
Today a many other things have been added, what Paul was talking about does not stop at Circumscion, any Law that we as believers have put in us that we must do is the same as thecurse of the Law that Paul talks about in Romans and here to the Galatians as well as he put too was on the opposite side of the scale do not take advantage of the fact that you are 100% forgiven asthe Corinthians did.
We by god's miraculous grace areto become responders to this, and forsake waht we have been taught in the flesh which is to be initiators. Which is what Adam and Eve had to become tilling the ground and making a living with out the one true God.
When Adam and Eve fell they became little God's to fend for themselves. Theybecame creators and lost their living Soul that God himself had breathed into them.
So God sent his only Son into the world to save not condem. To restore us through the cross and by the death we are forgiven 100% but no ione recieves life from death, therefore there is the resurretion that gives this life back that Adam and Eve had before the fall, and we stop being initiators and return to being responders to the Living God
yet man has made thius so complicated through man flesh just not getting out of the way and just trust God to lead by god's Spirit being what is known as born again, as Jesus said we must be born again and God the Father supplies this born again through belief in God by the resurrection at the cross
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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This declaration is anti-Christ. None of us are God's children until we name Jesus Christ, Yeshua, as our Savior, and only then are we gifted the power to become God's "adoptive" children. Read the Word, believe the Word, and do not follow the gospel of any other, not that there is another gospel.
You I am a believer in the Christ, the way, the truth and the life, yet I am not righteous (good) and never will be, I am no better than anyone else and never will be. I am thankful for this, overwhelmed and greatful in giving all glory to God for his only begotten Son that paved the way through the cross for life new life to all that beleive

So we those that do beleive are righteous, good yes? Nope for only God is good and righteous, we the ones that believe whether they go to a Catholic Church or a Pentecostal. or any other denomination are accepted by God. God knowing whom are the ones that really do beleive worshipping with their new hearts in the Spirit of God and of God's type of love, not just the lips anymore as many do and are fakes. but this is for God to Judge, we are to expound in the love of God
If you know that God just love you, 100% how will you Love others?
If you know you are 100% forgiven by God thorugh Christ, then how will you respond to others?
You see one will only forgive and love another accordingly to how they God forgives and loves them, along with only br friendly to those that are of the same mind as I have posted before how are any one of us any differant than anyone else if we only love those that love us back?
Flesh just keeps on getting in the way, so maybe this why Paul was so adiment about being dead to sinful flesh and alive to God by the Spirit of God as Romans 6 so well points out
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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I don't recall Peter and Paul living in luxury or Jesus either as the Popes have down thru history. Fine successors and examples that lot turned out to be.
Waht about all the other Churches here on earth as well Brothers if we are to segregate one then lets segregate all, which Church do yuo belong to here on earth? You do know where the true one is yes? Not trying to pick on you, but 7seven7 has plainly said that he beleives in Christ as the Messiah, and is being picked on for going to the wrong Church building when God doe not live in buildings Brother as what Stephan pointed out and was Stoned to death for it. Hmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ans 7seven7 has not said he was here to promote Catholic just was lookiing for conversation in and about Christ. To fellowship with other beleivers. So why is that the place of worship he is at or goes tobeing picked on when I know any place of worship here on the earth building can be picked on and thus no fellowship is in place and backbiting, stabbing, arguiing and so forth is thus going on and is not fruitful as Paul told the Corinthians that htey were still carnal and he wished he could give them meat but he couldn't as of yet. So can we all move onto the Love of god that God has for us all?
 
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crossnote, you contradict yourself again.

Just a couple of days ago you were justifying the outrageously high salaries that Evangelical Protestant pastors give to themselves, saying that Christians "get what they pay for"....

You said...
crossnote said:
Maybe it's a matter how much they value God's taught word. As goes the saying 'you get what you paid for.'
We pay out the ying yang for medical care of our bodies, how much more important the health of our souls.
Yet when it comes to the Pope then you condemn him for not living in a shack...

I don't recall Peter and Paul living in luxury or Jesus either as the Popes have down thru history. Fine successors and examples that lot turned out to be.
Oh, the hypocrisy!!! Silly Catholic-basher.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Waht about all the other Churches here on earth as well Brothers if we are to segregate one then lets segregate all, which Church do yuo belong to here on earth? You do know where the true one is yes? Not trying to pick on you, but 7seven7 has plainly said that he beleives in Christ as the Messiah, and is being picked on for going to the wrong Church building when God doe not live in buildings Brother as what Stephan pointed out and was Stoned to death for it. Hmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ans 7seven7 has not said he was here to promote Catholic just was lookiing for conversation in and about Christ. To fellowship with other beleivers. So why is that the place of worship he is at or goes tobeing picked on when I know any place of worship here on the earth building can be picked on and thus no fellowship is in place and backbiting, stabbing, arguiing and so forth is thus going on and is not fruitful as Paul told the Corinthians that htey were still carnal and he wished he could give them meat but he couldn't as of yet. So can we all move onto the Love of god that God has for us all?
Maybe you can point out to him this is not a RC forum or a place to proselytize, or a place to criticize the protestants?
That's just what they do in the name of 'love and unity'. Do you really think they are here to learn? But I guess the rules on this forum don't apply.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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crossnote, you contradict yourself again.

Just a couple of days ago you were justifying the outrageously high salaries that Evangelical Protestant pastors give to themselves, saying that Christians "get what they pay for"....

You said...


Yet when it comes to the Pope then you condemn him for not living in a shack...



Oh, the hypocrisy!!! Silly Catholic-basher.
I call a spade a spade, whether a pope living in luxury or a TV evangelist milking the people. Most RC'ers defend the Popes at all costs.
 
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7seven7

Guest
Maybe you can point out to him this is not a RC forum or a place to proselytize, or a place to criticize the protestants?
That's just what they do in the name of 'love and unity'. Do you really think they are here to learn? But I guess the rules on this forum don't apply.
Are you serious? Do you just make things up as you go to suit your argument, brother? I have never criticized Protestants out of hatred or bitterness. If I ever have said anything about Protestants, it was in reply to a bashing of Catholicism, and only to point out the similarities between the accusations made about the Catholic Church and what really happens in Protestant Churches. And if I did this, I only did so to bring whoever it was I was chatting to off their high horse and show them that their Church has erred just like the Catholic Church has. I have gone over the top in the past, which I have IMMEDIATELY appoligized for. IMMEDIATELY! God bless you brother, but I really think we should steer clear of eachother. In love, Charlie.
 
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