Praying in Tongues, in the Spirit.

[shroom2]

You agree then that many Pentecostals are in error?

Yes, many pentecostals do not operate the manifestations correctly, and are in error.

But ALL cessationists are in error. (had to get that in...)

That is a beginning.

Of what?

Thank you for your comments.

Likewise. Thanks for the exchange.

 

[Dude653]

I see a lot of posts here spaeking against pentacostals and against speaking in toungues. Thes e petty doctrine debates are very annoying. If you have a problem with speaking in toungues then dont attend churches where the do so. Meanwhile... Shut up about it and stop sowing discord

 

[superdave5221]

I see a lot of posts here spaeking against pentacostals and against speaking in toungues. Thes e petty doctrine debates are very annoying. If you have a problem with speaking in toungues then dont attend churches where the do so. Meanwhile... Shut up about it and stop sowing discord

I see a lot of people here speaking against people honestly debating issues that they think deserve attention. That kind of petty close mindedness is very annoying. If you have a problem with the posts do not respond to them. In the meantime, Shut up and stop sowing discord.

 

[AnandaHya]

(I obviously realize your entire post was sarcasm (typical for you), but wanted to answer you as though it wasn't)

lol I like the fact you added that for the newbies

 

[schoolofyoungprophet]

speaking in tongues or not both are equally loved by God,i think its Jesus that matters above all things,do we desire him..
some say tonuges exists no more some say we are speaking it but we can pull all this arguments and doctorines as long as the day is and if our knees are not bowed in prayers and our heart is not longing for him,everything we speak of is just like a person bidding for a horse in the race.
Gods not impressed by our talents or gifts i don think hes even looking there as a measure, what i think he is looking at is the quality of our life,the truthfulness of what we teach and preach,growing in holines and so on
i am pentecoastal, i speak in tongues but whats the point of speaking in tongues if i have no godly character,it should be character and charizma should go together

 

[AnandaHya]

So, intelligent and concerned people will want to find out what is of God and what is of evil spirits.

and ones who truly Love God's Truth will divide good from evil and not lump all utterances of tongues as demonic and the people doing so deceived and delusional.

For the Bible speaks of tongues, to say that God can not do what He has already revealed He has done in the past again today is deception and blindness. To say all tongue utterances are from God is delusion.

Satan's favorite tactic is drop one bad apple, one lie in the barrel and get people to throw the whole barrel out instead of remove the poisoned apple before the person has a chance to commit the sin that leads to death: Apostasy.

 

[AnandaHya]

speaking in tongues or not both are equally loved by God,i think its Jesus that matters above all things,do we desire him..
some say tonuges exists no more some say we are speaking it but we can pull all this arguments and doctorines as long as the day is and if our knees are not bowed in prayers and our heart is not longing for him,everything we speak of is just like a person bidding for a horse in the race.
Gods not impressed by our talents or gifts i don think hes even looking there as a measure, what i think he is looking at is the quality of our life,the truthfulness of what we teach and preach,growing in holines and so on
i am pentecoastal, i speak in tongues but whats the point of speaking in tongues if i have no godly character,it should be character and charizma should go together

exactly when the disciples came back and told Jesus they were happy they could cast out demons and had this POWER, He told them that they should not rejoice in that but in the fact that their names were written in the Book of Life and they get to go to Heaven.

 

[shekaniah]

What the word says; is to pray in the spirit. To be spiritually filled. So the next time you pray ask God to lead you with his spirit.

And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints. Eph 6:18 NIV

 

[superdave5221]

and ones who truly Love God's Truth will divide good from evil and not lump all utterances of tongues as demonic and the people doing so deceived and delusional.

This is certainly something to think about. I believe that the agreement that Shroom and myself reached on this issue is that many Pentecostals have been deceived.

One doesn't have to agree on cessationism to agree that many have been led astray by this practice. The many YouTube videos and other references in academia provide evidence for that.

To me, it seems dangerous to promote a practice, and indeed for many to refer to it as necessary for salvation, when that practice has been shown to lead to error for large numbers of people.

 

[AnandaHya]

yes many have been deceived and they use verses from the Bible to continue the deception that does not mean I would throw whole book away because Satan quotes scripture and counterfeits things of God.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

Really?

The following is from the website dividedbytruth.org
Passage from Dr. John R. Rice's excellent book, The Charismatic Movement, on pages 136-139:

Some Christians talk in tongues. So do some Mormons, some devil-possessed spiritists, heathen witch doctors in Africa and Asia. Ages ago many heathen religions talked in tongues. It is not of itself necessarily of God.
In his book, New Testament Teaching on Tongues, Dr. Merrill Unger calls attention to this fact, on pages 163-165:​

That tongues can be and are counterfeited by demon spirits is evidenced by the fact that spiritistic mediums. Muslim dervishes, and Indian fakirs speak in tongues. It must be remembered by those who try to make tongues a badge of spirituality or a status symbol of saints who have attained the height of spiritual experience, that speaking in tongues and their interpretation are not peculiar to the Christian church but are common in ancient pagan religions and in spiritism both ancient and modern.
The very phrase "to speak with tongues" (Greek glosais lalein, Acts 2:4; 10:46; 19-6; 1st Cor. 12-14; cf. Mark 16:17) was not invented by New Testament writers, but borrowed from the ordinary speech of pagans. Plato's attitude toward the enthusiastic ecstasies of the ancient soothsayer (mantis, diviner,) recalls the Apostle Paul's attitude toward glossolalia among the Corinthian believers.
Virgil graphically describes the ancient pagan prophetess "speaking with tongues." He depicts her disheveled hair, her panting breast, her change of color, and her apparent increase in stature at the god (demon) came upon her and filled her with this supernatural afflatus. Then her voice loses its mortal ring as the god (demon) speaks through her, as in ancient and modern necromancy (spiritism).
Phenomena of this type are common among savages and pagan peoples of lower culture. Ecstatic utterances interpreted by a person in a sane state of mind have been verified, In the Sandwich Islands, for example, the god Oro gave his oracles through a priest who "ceased to act or speak as a voluntary agent, but with his limbs convulsed, his features distorted and terrific, his eyes wild and strained, would roll on the ground foaming at the moth, and reveal the will of the god in shrill cries and sounds violent and indistinct, which the attending priests duly interpreted to the people."​

So, intelligent and concerned people will want to find out what is of God and what is of evil spirits.
The matter is so important, let me call to the witness stand again the assistant professor in Grace Theological Seminary, Dr. Charles R. Smith. He says on pages 20-22 of his book, Tongues in Biblical Perspective:​

IN NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS.--Tongues occupied a significant place in ancient Greek religion. The seeress at Delphi, not far from Corinth, spoke in tongues. According to Plutarch (A.D. 44-117), interpreters were kept in attendance to explain her incoherent utterances. Many scholars have stated that tongues were experienced in the mystery religions (Osirius, Mithra, Eleusinian, Dionsyian, and Orphic cults). Some have concluded that the unintelligible lists of "words" in the "magical papyri" and in certain Gnostic "prayers" are records of ecstatic utterances. About A.D. 180 Celsus reported ecstatic utterances among the Gnostics. Lucian of Samosata (A.D. 120-198) described tongues speaking as it was practiced by the devotees of the Syrian goddess, Juno.
Today shamans (witch doctors, priests, or medicine men) in Haiti, Greenland, Micronesia, and countries of Africa, Australia, Asia, and North and South America speak in tongues. Several groups use drugs to aid in inducing the ecstatic state and utterances. Voodoo practitioners speak in tongues. Buddhist and Shinto priest have been heard speaking in tongues. Moslems have spoken in tongues, and an ancient tradition even reports that Mohammed himself spoke in tongues. According to his own account, after his ecstatic experiences he found it difficult to return to "logical and intelligible speech" (Kelsey, p. 143).
IN MENTAL ILLNESS.--The fact hat nonreligious tongues speaking often occurs in association with certain mental illnesses is well documented. Psychiatrists have reported it in association with schizophrenia, neurosis, and psychosis. Probably all psychiatrists and psychologists are aware of the possibility of psychic damage resulting from tongues speaking (Kelsey, p.227). It was reported that following the extended tongues meeting held by Aimee Semple McPherson, founder of the Church of the Foursquare Gospel, mental institutions in the area of her meeting were overburdened. The Episcopalian church financed a study commission which concluded that tongues are "not per se a religious phenomenon" and may appear among those "who are suffering from mental disorders as schizophrenia and hysteria" (Jennings, p.11)
IN SPIRITISM.--Tongues speaking occurs among anti-Christian spiritistic mediums. Contrary to popular belief among tongues speakers, a few years ago the European Pentecostal Conference admitted that "tongues might occur apart from the Spirit's action" (Brown, p.151)
IN THE DEMON POSSESSED.--Even Pentecostal authors grant that there are cases where demonic influence is apparently responsible for tongues utterances. Some feel that this is why "the gift of discernment of spirits" is necessary.
Again on page 38 Dr. Smith says:
In extra biblical literature this word was used to describe the "inspired" utterances of diviners. Moulton and Milligan cite three occurrences of the word in Vettius Valens where it designates irrational or unintelligible speech. It is stated that the speakers' minds had "fallen away," they were overcome with "madness," and they spoke in "ecstasy" (p. 72). Apoptheggomai was almost a technical term for describing the speech of the oracle-givers, diviners, prophets, exorcists, ecstatics, and other "inspired" persons (Kittel, I, 447; Arndt and Gingrich, p. 101). The basic idea is "an unusual utterance by virtue of inspiration." Though the word obviously cannot be limited to unintelligible speech, it is certainly appropriate for such. Its usage in Greek literature, in fact, definitely suggests a connection with ecstatic, often unintelligible, utterances.​

If a Mormon talks in tongues with his false religion, is that speaking with tongues the Bible gift of tongues? I think not. If an unconverted Catholic who prays to Mary, confesses to a priest, hopes to get out of purgatory if enough people pay for masses and if he hasn't sinned badly, talks in tongues, is that the Bible gift of tongues? I think not.
Evidently Satan can have people talk in tongues also, and we need to carefully consider that when we talk about the gift of tongues.
End
​

Big load of crap to me. Doesn't change what's written in the Bible.

 

[AnandaHya]

Why is it that the prophets in here are always the ones who diminish the importance of the bible, and bible study? That is not what Paul says.

Not everyone who believe in the gifts of the spirit diminish the importance of the Bible or Bible study most just express that reading the Bible without the Holy Spirit illuminating its meaning and purpose for YOUR life would be folly and not beneficial as reading it with a humble, contrite and open heart to God's guiding love and promptings about how His truth has affect the people in the OT stories, how His prophecies have been fulfilled, how they are being fulfilled in the world and what good works we are to do to glorify His name.

however some still speak from their flesh and their own desires and call it God which we use the Bible and the Holy Spirit inside us to verify or reject their words. either way we need to love and forgive them even when they rail against us and insult and curse us.

I'm hesitant to say it because I know it will probably piss off Zone and I really don't want to add to the contention and strife.

But you do realize I believe God gave me the gift of prophecy right?

whether Prophets exist and who they really are I am still praying and reading God's words concerning that office.

however I know that prophecy is alive and still a gift the Holy Spirit gives to His people along with many of the others.

 

[Ramon]

speaking in tongues or not both are equally loved by God,i think its Jesus that matters above all things,do we desire him..
some say tonuges exists no more some say we are speaking it but we can pull all this arguments and doctorines as long as the day is and if our knees are not bowed in prayers and our heart is not longing for him,everything we speak of is just like a person bidding for a horse in the race.
Gods not impressed by our talents or gifts i don think hes even looking there as a measure, what i think he is looking at is the quality of our life,the truthfulness of what we teach and preach,growing in holines and so on
i am pentecoastal, i speak in tongues but whats the point of speaking in tongues if i have no godly character,it should be character and charizma should go together

AMEN!!! AMEN!! Yes, that came to me last night. Speaking in tongues does not guarantee anyone salvation!!!

I still do see the importance of it. May Jesus bless you.

 

[Tobby17]

Sorry,just to clarify. Who in this thread is against speaking in tongues?

 

[AnandaHya]

lol Tobby I believe that the only cessationist who have commented on the thread are Zone and Superdave.

 

[jandian]

Blessed are the peacemakers AnandaHya...Proud of yah

 

[resurrection33]

I see no value in speaking or praying in tongues, unless someone understands what is being said and benefits by what is being said.

 

[Sarah88]

AMEN!!! AMEN!! Yes, that came to me last night. Speaking in tongues does not guarantee anyone salvation.

Yes, that´s true as 1 Corinthians 13:1 states.

However, speaking in tongues is a gift from God:

28And God has placed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, gifts of healing, helps, gifts of leadership, different kinds of tongues. 29 Not all are apostles, are they? Not all are prophets, are they? Not all are teachers, are they? Not all perform miracles, do they? 30 Not all have gifts of healing, do they? Not all speak in tongues, do they? Not all interpret, do they? 1 Cor. 12:28-30

Every member of the church has a gift, not everyone has the same one but all of them are useful. In Mark 16:17, Jesus said that speaking in tongues is one of the signs of those that believe in Him. This has been very misused in churches today and it is not done decently and in order like the Bible tells us. But it is still useful in the church. God can communicate a message through it, God can speak to people who know that language in a very personal way (I know a story of this) and the church can be very blessed.

The important thing is to glorify God with whatever gift He has placed in our hands!

 

[AnandaHya]

I see no value in speaking or praying in tongues, unless someone understands what is being said and benefits by what is being said.

lol neither did Paul that's why he wrote this:

1 Corinthians 14:4-6
New King James Version (NKJV)

4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for[a] he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?

 

[resurrection33]

lol neither did Paul that's why he wrote this:

1 Corinthians 14:4-6
New King James Version (NKJV)

4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for[a] he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching?

[27] If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. 1 Cor 14:27-28 RSV