Praying in Tongues

[7seasrekeyed]

1 Corinthians 14:34 King James Version (KJV)

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
1 Corinthians 14:34 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.

source: Bible Gateway

how about when they prophesy? (basic NT meaning in this case)

I am familiar with Bible Gateway and you forgot all the verses that indicate Paul was speaking to a church that was pretty much out of order

elsewhere, we have women who are not at all silent

but you can keep silent if you want...that would include singing also

 

[7seasrekeyed]

both can have similar definitions, but fortune-telling is only defined in the spelling PROPHECY.
I have an OLD Webter's Collegiate dictionary I use.

a lot of fortune telling in the Bible, eh?

especially in the Old Testament

what were they thinking

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Detailed? Is the sign for those who believe the word of God (prophecy) or those who do not? Two choices. yes or no

Yes I know what a sign is (not prophecy) Prophecy is for those who believe. Signs for those who believe not prophecy .

Jesus said its an evil generation natural unconverted man that seeks after one. The sign that comes with prophecy is they believe God as he softens their hearts. Prophecy apposes those who heart remains hard, as in we refuse to hear God's word and believe.

so you will not answer

well actually you cannot since the response from scripture points out your errors better than anything anyone could say

sad

again, you have completely flipped the discussion

how very disingenuous of you

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I don't deny it. It think it needs to be defined

How many spiritual gifts can God use at one time? Can one person be used in giving all that are mentioned. Does the gift of brining the gospel( prophecy)as a Apostle (sent one) need two people with separate gifts ?

Can God work a miracle through beautiful feet of one that bring the gospel (prophecy)?

Or is it one gift per person. One at a time.

Perhaps we should discuss. Is God served by human hands in any way shape or form

the article by John Piper defines all of it from scripture, using scripture and you ignore it

quit you play acting

 

[7seasrekeyed]

HERE IT IS AGAIN. SEE WHAT BIG LETTERS I USE SO YOU CANNOT MISS IT


New Testament gift of prophecy

1. It is still valid and useful for the church today. This is the clear implication of 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 and Acts 2:17-18.
2. It is a Spirit-prompted, Spirit-sustained, utterance that is rooted in a true revelation (1 Corinthians 14:30), but is fallible because the prophet’s perception of the revelation, and thinking about the revelation, and report of the revelation are all fallible. It is thus similar to the gift of teaching which is Spirit-prompted, Spirit sustained, rooted in an infallible revelation (the Bible), and yet is fallible but very useful to the church.
3. It does not have an authority that is on a par with Scripture, for Scripture is verbally inspired, not just Spirit-prompted and Spirit-sustained. The very words of the biblical writers are the words of God (1 Corinthians 2:13; 2 Timothy 3:16). This is not true of the words that come from the “gift of prophecy.”
4. The New Testament gift of prophecy is a “third category” of prophetic utterance between the categories of 1) verbally inspired, intrinsically authoritative, infallible speech spoken by the likes of Moses, Jesus and the apostles; and 2) the speech of false prophets spoken presumptuously, without inspiration and liable to condemnation (Deuteronomy 18:20). Those two categories (absolutely infallible vs. false) do not exhaust all the biblical teaching on prophecy.

Prophecy in this “third category” (the New Testament gift of prophecy) is a regulated 1 message or report in human words 2 usually made to the gathered believers 3 based on a spontaneous, personal revelation from the Holy Spirit 4for the purpose of edification, encouragement, consolation, conviction or guidance 5 but not necessarily free from a mixture of human error, and thus needing assessment 6 on the basis of the apostolic (Biblical) teaching 7 and mature spiritual wisdom.

1. Recognize God’s complete sovereignty in giving gifts freely to whomever he wills (1 Corinthians 12:11; Hebrews 2:4).
2. Recognize that not all will become prophets (1 Corinthians 12:29).
3. Desire earnestly this gift (1 Corinthians 14:1,5,39). Pray for it (1 Corinthians 14:13).
4. Be grateful for the gifts you do have; use them to the full; rejoice that others are different from you; and avoid all jealousy (1 Corinthians 12:14-29).
5. Make love your aim in all things; realize that love is the greatest miracle and the surest sign of God’s blessing; grow more and more toward solid, stable biblical maturity (1 Corinthians 14:1,12,26,37; 2:14).
6. Muster the courage to speak out what you believe (with more or less confidence) may be given to you from the Lord in gatherings designed for this less-structured expression (1 Corinthians 14:26).
7. Have humble expectations that the prophecy will not be taken as a word of Scripture but as a Spirit-prompted human word to be weighed by Scripture, and by mature spiritual wisdom. For a prophecy to be accepted as valid it should find an echo in the hearts of spiritually mature people. It should be confirmed by biblically saturated insight. And it should find a resonance in the hearts and minds of those who have the mind of Christ and are ruled by his peace. (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21; Colossians 1:9; 3:15; Ephesians 5:15-17; Romans 12:1-2; Philippians 1:9-10).

SOURCE

there is also a difference between prophecy and prophesy

 

[7seasrekeyed]

If people teach that since 1900 every christian can pray in tongues, then simply my question is, why this was not teached before?
This has nothing to do, that some would resist against God to get this gift. It just has not taken place that God is giving this gift for today. Why should he prefer some of his children more than others. ( although he would have the right to do this)
Till today non of the teacher of this doctrine could answer my questions.
So why I should believe it.
And the bible dont teach it either!

the Bible has always been available

so no excuse and ridiculous to say what you are saying about God refusing

read acts

 

[Lanolin]

How funny 1 corinthians 14 asks this question in verse 36

What? Came the word of God out from you? Or came it unto you only?

We can do both pray and sing in spirit in unknown tongues and with understanding in our own tongue...but just be mindful that others may not understand even if God understands.

Do I get annoyed if my mum speaks in cantonese and I dont understand her? Well yea sometimes! But I make effort or ask her to translate. Sometimes she doesnt need to, i will just get the context of what shes saying anyway. If i am ignorant of what shes saying well then it wasnt meant for me.

When we pray we pray to God and when we sing we sing to God, often its a private thing its not meant for anyone else to hear but God, so it doesnt matter...but when you do so in church you have people that need edificatiin so praying in a language that nobody else can understand is not best because how can they say amen to something they cant understand. Thats why you must interpret or pray someone can interpret. Cos its rude!

Its very simple and NBD...no big deal! Has anyone here tried to go to a foreign country not knowing ANY of the language and got hopelessly lost? Yes? Well there you go.

 

[wolfwint]

the Bible has always been available

so no excuse and ridiculous to say what you are saying about God refusing

read acts

I dont need an excuse. I follow the word of God. And would it taught as it was in the apostolic time, we must not discuss about it. Paul says clear that not all got the gift of speaking in tongues on his time. Why it is taught today a) that all will receive this gift? and b) that it is a sign that you are baptised with the Holy Spirit?
This was not taught during the churchhistory, but began in 1900 in Topeka, USA.
For me no proof that this is biblical based, even when the pentecostal and charismatic churches are the fastest growing churches.

 

[garee]

Really? I'm surprised that I need to quote this to you, since you've quoted it at least a dozen times...

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not....

Take a moment to think through your answer.

It has always been my position to believe tongues are a sign to confirm those who believe not the word of God but to those who refuse to hear the word of God. (prophecy)

The sign confirms God is mocking those who have no faith those who mock him with the oral traditions of men .He is not mocking those who do believe. No sign for those who do hear.

Take a moment to think through your answer. What does the sign confirm and who is against.

 

[notuptome]

You cannot pray in tongues and you cannot prophesy in tongues. All you have is private interpretation and unsound doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[GraceAndTruth]

how about when they prophesy? (basic NT meaning in this case)

I am familiar with Bible Gateway and you forgot all the verses that indicate Paul was speaking to a church that was pretty much out of order

elsewhere, we have women who are not at all silent

but you can keep silent if you want...that would include singing also

I'm sure I would have an answer for you if I knew what the question was.
I did post the scripture verse with the chapter/verse. That the Corinthian church was a mess is common knowledge, don't you think?
I like to use Bible Gateway as a means to quickly post scripture instead of typing out each one manually. obvious reason there too.

I believe the format in the new covenant churches was for the men to take the lead in all things. Paul rather defines the roles in the church in Timothy.

I don't know where you would find women not being silent while in the church. I see this as how is Paul referring to how a worship service is conducted. Also this particular admonishment by Paul is directed TO the use of tongues.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

a lot of fortune telling in the Bible, eh?

especially in the Old Testament

what were they thinking

that isn't what I said

 

[Dino246]

It has always been my position to believe tongues are a sign to confirm those who believe not the word of God but to those who refuse to hear the word of God. (prophecy)

The sign confirms God is mocking those who have no faith those who mock him with the oral traditions of men .He is not mocking those who do believe. No sign for those who do hear.

Take a moment to think through your answer. What does the sign confirm and who is against.

You still haven't answered it. It requires a simple "yes" or "no".

Round #4: Does Scripture call tongues a gift and a sign?

 

[Dino246]

I'm sure I would have an answer for you if I knew what the question was.
I did post the scripture verse with the chapter/verse. That the Corinthian church was a mess is common knowledge, don't you think?
I like to use Bible Gateway as a means to quickly post scripture instead of typing out each one manually. obvious reason there too.

I believe the format in the new covenant churches was for the men to take the lead in all things. Paul rather defines the roles in the church in Timothy.

I don't know where you would find women not being silent while in the church. I see this as how is Paul referring to how a worship service is conducted. Also this particular admonishment by Paul is directed TO the use of tongues.

While I agree that the context of 1 Corinthians 14 is speaking in tongues, this is the first time I've seen anyone argue that the gist of this section is that women were "not" to speak in tongues, rather than not speaking at all. I questioned it for that reason, knowing that the text does not explicitly say that women are not to speak in tongues.

Most people who hold that these verses were written by Paul contest that it is a general prohibition, which of course contradicts 11:5. Sometime, when this subject comes up in its own thread (which it will sooner than later), we can discuss that side of it.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I dont need an excuse. I follow the word of God. And would it taught as it was in the apostolic time, we must not discuss about it. Paul says clear that not all got the gift of speaking in tongues on his time. Why it is taught today a) that all will receive this gift? and b) that it is a sign that you are baptised with the Holy Spirit?
This was not taught during the churchhistory, but began in 1900 in Topeka, USA.
For me no proof that this is biblical based, even when the pentecostal and charismatic churches are the fastest growing churches.

right

so ignore what scripture says and follow people

well, that is nothing new for so many people

Paul says nothing of the sort. Paul says do not forbid to speak in tongues. check it out

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I'm sure I would have an answer for you if I knew what the question was.
I did post the scripture verse with the chapter/verse. That the Corinthian church was a mess is common knowledge, don't you think?
I like to use Bible Gateway as a means to quickly post scripture instead of typing out each one manually. obvious reason there too.

I believe the format in the new covenant churches was for the men to take the lead in all things. Paul rather defines the roles in the church in Timothy.

I don't know where you would find women not being silent while in the church. I see this as how is Paul referring to how a worship service is conducted. Also this particular admonishment by Paul is directed TO the use of tongues.

did you forget what you posted or are you trying to redirect? here's yr post:

GraceAndTruth said:

1 Corinthians 14:34 King James Version (KJV)

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
1 Corinthians 14:34 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

34 The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.

source: Bible Gateway

 

[7seasrekeyed]

that isn't what I said

that is exactly what you said:

GraceAndTruth said:
both can have similar definitions, but fortune-telling is only defined in the spelling PROPHECY.
I have an OLD Webter's Collegiate dictionary I use.

that may not be what you wanted to say, but you say it you did

maybe make notes about yr posts...

 

[wolfwint]

right

so ignore what scripture says and follow people

well, that is nothing new for so many people

Paul says nothing of the sort. Paul says do not forbid to speak in tongues. check it out

Paul said that not all have the gift of speaking in tongues.

right

so ignore what scripture says and follow people

well, that is nothing new for so many people

Paul says nothing of the sort. Paul says do not forbid to speak in tongues. check it out

Paul said in 1.Cor. 12.30 that not all christians have the gift of speaking in tongues. I do not ignore the scripture!

 

[GraceAndTruth]

While I agree that the context of 1 Corinthians 14 is speaking in tongues, this is the first time I've seen anyone argue that the gist of this section is that women were "not" to speak in tongues, rather than not speaking at all. I questioned it for that reason, knowing that the text does not explicitly say that women are not to speak in tongues.

Most people who hold that these verses were written by Paul contest that it is a general prohibition, which of course contradicts 11:5. Sometime, when this subject comes up in its own thread (which it will sooner than later), we can discuss that side of it.

Then I have to ask, what did Paul mean by saying women should be silent in the churches?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

that is exactly what you said:



that may not be what you wanted to say, but you say it you did

maybe make notes about yr posts...

if you insist on being unreasonable there is nothing I can do about it