Praying in Tongues

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Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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932
113
let us know when knowledge has passed away

although truth be told, it seems for a good number round these here parts, that may have happened

not you of course...you can still type :geek:
It depends with your understanding of that verse, to me, it is very easy. It is talking about gifts and the idea that some are gifted with knowledge about the kingdom of God so that they tell others is long gone; gone with the old covenant. Precisely at the end of the 1st century when the new covenant was ratified:

Jer 31:
31Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
32It will not be like the covenant
I made with their fathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt—
a covenant they broke,
though I was a husband to them,f
declares the LORD.
33“But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the LORD.
I will put My law in their minds
and inscribe it on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
and they will be My people.
34No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother,
saying, ‘Know the LORD,’

because they will all know Me,
from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD.

For I will forgive their iniquity
and will remember their sins no more.”
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Cessation is from biblical grounds that you may not be aware of. That verse was not written for cessationists, it was written by a cessationist because Paul says when perfect love comes, all gifts would cease; you only need to find out when the 'perfect' came.

no

that is your desperate plea and desire since you can't wrap your understanding around it and by gum you MUST be right or you will have to admit you were wrong

wait...what?

on the serious side (but I was actually serious), you are mishandling the written word

Paul never said ALL the gifts would cease

now come on...even YOU know he mentioned tongues and knowledge and never said a single word about ALL the gifts

getting desperate are we? or perhaps angry cause you cannot control what others experience and you don't so therefore it does not exist?

is it fear maybe? cause you are adding and subtracting spiritual equations and ending up with nada
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
It depends with your understanding of that verse, to me, it is very easy. It is talking about gifts and the idea that some are gifted with knowledge about the kingdom of God so that they tell others is long gone; gone with the old covenant. Precisely at the end of the 1st century when the new covenant was ratified:

Jer 31:
31Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
32It will not be like the covenant
I made with their fathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt—
a covenant they broke,
though I was a husband to them,f
declares the LORD.
33“But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the LORD.
I will put My law in their minds
and inscribe it on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
and they will be My people.
34No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother,
saying, ‘Know the LORD,’

because they will all know Me,
from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD.

For I will forgive their iniquity
and will remember their sins no more.”

how many understandings does the Bible say we should have?

or are you stuck in Judges?

you have me convinced you are on a mission to destroy what you cannot destroy.. like Paul

only he woke up before it was too late. what caused the change?

well, he went from UNBELIEF to FAITH IN THE SON OF GOD

so there is hope if you allow it

however, I am really of the same opinion of too many words as I was a few days ago

you got em and I don't want em
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
nah

what is fake is your cover up for not believing in what is plainly written

tell me, how does that sound? cause that is how I seez it

you believe or not. I don't even care if someone chooses not to believe, but the part ( me with my curious nature) I find interesting, is why people who oppose this particular gift do not seem able to stop raging at it

if I don't believe in something...like monsters under the bed for instance, I don't poke around under there every night before retiring....and I don't write Disney cartoonists that they need to stop what they are doing cause it's all fake



It a topic under discussion, so no need to get enraged.
Again, the apostles raised the dead, it can't happen today; a clear sign of cessation.
You can try to dissuade but it wont change the fact that people have been reduced to babbling meaningless words with their tongue.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
1,808
113
It a topic under discussion, so no need to get enraged.
Again, the apostles raised the dead, it can't happen today; a clear sign of cessation.
You can try to dissuade but it wont change the fact that people have been reduced to babbling meaningless words with their tongue.
Oh, but it has, and will continue. You just don't run with the right crowd.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
no

that is your desperate plea and desire since you can't wrap your understanding around it and by gum you MUST be right or you will have to admit you were wrong

wait...what?

on the serious side (but I was actually serious), you are mishandling the written word

Paul never said ALL the gifts would cease

now come on...even YOU know he mentioned tongues and knowledge and never said a single word about ALL the gifts

getting desperate are we? or perhaps angry cause you cannot control what others experience and you don't so therefore it does not exist?

is it fear maybe? cause you are adding and subtracting spiritual equations and ending up with nada
ALL gifts ceased, ALL.
You needed to know their purpose:

Heb 2:
1We must pay closer attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. 2For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every transgression and disobedience received its just punishment, 3how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation?

This salvation was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, 4and was affirmed by God through signs, wonders, various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to His will.

They helped in spreading the gospel; that chapter was done with. It is end times now.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
how many understandings does the Bible say we should have?

or are you stuck in Judges?

you have me convinced you are on a mission to destroy what you cannot destroy.. like Paul

only he woke up before it was too late. what caused the change?

well, he went from UNBELIEF to FAITH IN THE SON OF GOD

so there is hope if you allow it

however, I am really of the same opinion of too many words as I was a few days ago

you got em and I don't want em
Again, here's the truth:
Jer 31:
31Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
32It will not be like the covenant
I made with their fathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt—
a covenant they broke,
though I was a husband to them,f
declares the LORD.
33“But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the LORD.
I will put My law in their minds
and inscribe it on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
and they will be My people.
34No longer will each man teach his neighbor or his brother,
saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know Me,
from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD.

For I will forgive their iniquity
and will remember their sins no more.”

So, knowledge also ceased. In the new covenant, you stay with your knowledge, don't bother anyone because everyone should have it.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Oh, but it has, and will continue. You just don't run with the right crowd.
There's nobody running around raising people from the dead, right crowd or not; why don't they exercise their gift in a morgue?
And those that heal, why don't they visit a hospital?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
1,808
113
Oh, but it has, and will continue. You just don't run with the right crowd.
I hope I'm standing next to you when you are asked about your words "meaningless babble".
There's nobody running around raising people from the dead, right crowd or not; why don't they exercise their gift in a morgue?
And those that heal, why don't they visit a hospital?
People have been raised from the dead. And people have been healed. It's not our will that we exercise. It's His. Otherwise one will hear...I never knew you.

Have you forgotten what Jesus said?

Mark 16:20 Then his disciples went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord kept working with them and confirming the message by the signs that accompanied it.

Without Him we can do NOTHING!
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
785
113
Cessation is from biblical grounds that you may not be aware of. That verse was not written for cessationists, it was written by a cessationist because Paul says when perfect love comes, all gifts would cease; you only need to find out when the 'perfect' came.
When Adam fell and was kicked out of Eden, what did God promise? To restore creation and mankind to it's pre-fall condition, or to write us all a book about it? I'm glad you got your book and can now rest on your laurels. The rest of us, we're still waiting and working towards the day this fallen world is redeemed.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
785
113
The Apostles raised the dead, why isn't that happening today like it happened before?
There are no genuine miracles today, not a single one. The tongues are all fake.
Who says the dead are no longer raised? I've seen it happen. But then again, you will claim I'm an unreliable witness.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,717
9,096
113
It a topic under discussion, so no need to get enraged.
Again, the apostles raised the dead, it can't happen today; a clear sign of cessation.
You can try to dissuade but it wont change the fact that people have been reduced to babbling meaningless words with their tongue.
Wow... anything else your all-knowing exalted self deigns to share with the likes of humble us? What rot.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
785
113
The funny thing about faith is, if you believe the gifts have ceased, then for you they will cease!
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,717
9,096
113
There's nobody running around raising people from the dead, right crowd or not; why don't they exercise their gift in a morgue?
And those that heal, why don't they visit a hospital?
Simple: the gift of healing is exercised at the Lord's will, not that of the minister. Your argument is a straw man fallacy.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
I hope I'm standing next to you when you are asked about your words "meaningless babble".


People have been raised from the dead. And people have been healed. It's not our will that we exercise. It's His. Otherwise one will hear...I never knew you.

Have you forgotten what Jesus said?

Mark 16:20 Then his disciples went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord kept working with them and confirming the message by the signs that accompanied it.

Without Him we can do NOTHING!
This is what Jesus said:

Matt 7:21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Concerning death; the time that people could cross over and come back is long gone because this is time for harvest only:

Rev 14:
13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them
.”

14And I looked and saw a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was One like the Son of Man,c with a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.

15Then another angel came out of the temple, crying out in a loud voice to the One seated on the cloud, “Swing Your sickle and reap, because the time has come to harvest; for the crop of the earth is ripe.” 16So the One seated on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,752
1,769
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Germany
What a mess. The gifts havent ceased. Its just not as much in the open anymore the way it used to be.
I will not dare to question God"s power. That aint my right.
Just because I havent seen something or keep my eyes closed, doesnt mean its true.
let those who have ears to hear, hear and eyes to see, see
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
When Adam fell and was kicked out of Eden, what did God promise? To restore creation and mankind to it's pre-fall condition, or to write us all a book about it? I'm glad you got your book and can now rest on your laurels. The rest of us, we're still waiting and working towards the day this fallen world is redeemed.
Salvation is not about tongues and miracles; salvation is the gospel and gifts worked only to help in preaching the gospel. When the apostles were done with preaching the gospel, salvation came and is now for those that believe what was preached in the 1st century (meaning the scriptures).

Rom 13:11And do this, understanding the occasion. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, for our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12The night is nearly over; the day has drawn near. So let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.14Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh.

Heb 10:25Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made a habit, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching. ....
36You need to persevere, so that after you have done God’s will, you will receive what He has promised. 37For in just a little while,
He who is coming will come and will not delay.

That was in the 1st century.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,639
1,808
113
This is what Jesus said:

Matt 7:21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Concerning death; the time that people could cross over and come back is long gone because this is time for harvest only:

Rev 14:
13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them
.”

14And I looked and saw a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was One like the Son of Man,c with a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.

15Then another angel came out of the temple, crying out in a loud voice to the One seated on the cloud, “Swing Your sickle and reap, because the time has come to harvest; for the crop of the earth is ripe.” 16So the One seated on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
Oh? Well then what are you doing sitting here in chat?

What you are saying is there are only evangelists and the Spirit has left. Gotta work hard now by the sweat of your brow.

The kerchief that was on the face of Jesus was put aside. Seperate from the linen. I bet you didn't know that was a sweat cloth that men wore as a headband around their forehead to keep sweat from clouding their vision. It wasnt a napkin from the table.

Much to see in this simple act. Do you see?

The rest noose. Go and learn what this means.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
Who says the dead are no longer raised? I've seen it happen. But then again, you will claim I'm an unreliable witness.
I said so. You must have seen lies because it will be against:

Rev 14:
13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”
14And I looked and saw a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was One like the Son of Man,c with a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.

15Then another angel came out of the temple, crying out in a loud voice to the One seated on the cloud, “Swing Your sickle and reap, because the time has come to harvest; for the crop of the earth is ripe.” 16So the One seated on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.


Again, if the Holy spirit distributes the gifts, raising the dead should be more and more because many people are dying daily. There's no single person in the entire world that goes around raising the dead like Paul did. Quit it.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,717
9,096
113
Salvation is not about tongues and miracles; salvation is the gospel and gifts worked only to help in preaching the gospel. When the apostles were done with preaching the gospel, salvation came and is now for those that believe what was preached in the 1st century (meaning the scriptures).

Rom 13:11And do this, understanding the occasion. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, for our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12The night is nearly over; the day has drawn near. So let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.14Instead, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the desires of the flesh.

Heb 10:25Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made a habit, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching. ....
36You need to persevere, so that after you have done God’s will, you will receive what He has promised. 37For in just a little while,
He who is coming will come and will not delay.

That was in the 1st century.
If your assertion were true, the Stephen and all the OT saints are lost forever, because salvation didn't "come" until the time you claim.

Even if you were correct in your assertion about salvation "coming", your point about gifts remains irrelevant. There is still a need for preaching. There is still a need for teaching. What you are doing on this forum belies your assertion that the prophecy of Jeremiah has been fulfilled.