Praying in Tongues

[Noose]

Simple: the gift of healing is exercised at the Lord's will, not that of the minister. Your argument is a straw man fallacy.

Where is that in the bible?
Isn't the holy spirit who gives the minister gifts, the Lord? you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[Dino246]

I said so. You must have seen lies because it will be against:

Rev 14:
13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”
14And I looked and saw a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was One like the Son of Man,c with a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.

15Then another angel came out of the temple, crying out in a loud voice to the One seated on the cloud, “Swing Your sickle and reap, because the time has come to harvest; for the crop of the earth is ripe.” 16So the One seated on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

Again, if the Holy spirit distributes the gifts, raising the dead should be more and more because many people are dying daily. There's no single person in the entire world that goes around raising the dead like Paul did. Quit it.

How many people were raised from the dead under Paul's ministry? Can that very small number be characterized as "going around raising the dead"? No. In light of the impossibility of you knowing of every event on earth, does your ignorance of such events constitute proof that they doesn't happen? No.

 

[Dino246]

Where is that in the bible?
Isn't the holy spirit who gives the minister gifts, the Lord? you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

You must be unable to defend your position logically and rationally, as instead you turn to personal attacks.

 

[BillG]

the Reader's Digest version

no

that is not what he is saying. where did you even get that?

you don't sound your usual kind and thoughtful self

hugs

Sorry my bad.

 

[BillG]

+++Rediscover praying in Tongues if you have lapsed. Even a few minutes a day will help open your spirit, increase revelation in the Word, and strengthen you...

88. If I misunderstood you then please accept my apologies.

I tend to get het up when it comes to tonuges given my experiences.
No excuse.
So please accept my apology if I got it wrong

 

[garee]

let us know when knowledge has passed away

although truth be told, it seems for a good number round these here parts, that may have happened

not you of course...you can still type

Its new knowledge that could come from new prophecy as new revelations from God. God is no longer adding to His word after any manner to include tongues.(many languages of many nations )

 

[garee]

the Reader's Digest version

no

that is not what he is saying. where did you even get that?

you don't sound your usual kind and thoughtful self

hugs

Well tongues God's word, is evidence of something. And as a sign it is evidence something else. What does the sign confirm ?

 

[garee]

88

said:

+++Rediscover praying in Tongues if you have lapsed. Even a few minutes a day will help open your spirit, increase revelation in the Word, and strengthen you...

What are the new revelations and how can they strengthen a person ?

 

[Noose]

Oh? Well then what are you doing sitting here in chat?

What you are saying is there are only evangelists and the Spirit has left. Gotta work hard now by the sweat of your brow.

The kerchief that was on the face of Jesus was put aside. Seperate from the linen. I bet you didn't know that was a sweat cloth that men wore as a headband around their forehead to keep sweat from clouding their vision. It wasnt a napkin from the table.

Much to see in this simple act. Do you see?

The rest noose. Go and learn what this means.

Nope. There are no genuine evangelists, time for evangelizing is long gone too.

I did not say the spirit left, God is within individual believers working within them. What i meant is, there are no specific people with specific ministries today. Myself have been healed several times for sure, not because someone came and laid their hands on me but because i asked God for a healing.

 

[CS1]

1 Cor 13:8Love never fails; but if there are prophesies, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will be ceased; if there is knowledge it will pass away.

out of context from what the full passage says

 

[Ignorun]

Who says the dead are no longer raised? I've seen it happen. But then again, you will claim I'm an unreliable witness.

Well, he does have responsibility, right, to question and challenge your claim.
I question and challenge my conclusions. I question Mormons. As you know, they accept the claims of Joseph Smith.
Again, claims need to be and ought to be tested.

 

[Noose]

If your assertion were true, the Stephen and all the OT saints are lost forever, because salvation didn't "come" until the time you claim.

Even if you were correct in your assertion about salvation "coming", your point about gifts remains irrelevant. There is still a need for preaching. There is still a need for teaching. What you are doing on this forum belies your assertion that the prophecy of Jeremiah has been fulfilled.

The OT saints resurrected when Jesus died and resurrected. The saints during the transition period between the OT and the NT slept awaiting the Lord to resurrect them.

"...we shall not all sleep, but we shall be transformed..."

Paul, 1AD

Teaching without getting the appointment from God is detrimental, you'll make your converts twice as much the candidates of hell than they were before:

Matt 23: 8But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Christ. 11The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. ......
15Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You traverse land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

 

[Noose]

How many people were raised from the dead under Paul's ministry? Can that very small number be characterized as "going around raising the dead"? No. In light of the impossibility of you knowing of every event on earth, does your ignorance of such events constitute proof that they doesn't happen? No.

On record, Peter one, Paul one, Jesus two but:

John 14:12 Truly, truly, I tell you,whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these,because I am going to the Father.

The apostles believed and did great works just like Jesus, after them, not so much.

 

[Noose]

You must be unable to defend your position logically and rationally, as instead you turn to personal attacks.

No, it's not a personal attack and i'm still waiting for your biblical support for the view that the gift of healing is exercised at the Lord's will and other gifts exercised not at the Lord's will.

 

[Noose]

out of context from what the full passage says

Never mind the context, it is clear that gifts will cease, whether at the end of age (as you may believe) or in the first century as i believe. So cessation is biblical no doubt, i'm only giving reasons why it is 1st century and not any other time.

 

[CS1]

Well, he does have responsibility, right, to question and challenge your claim.
I question and challenge my conclusions. I question Mormons. As you know, they accept the claims of Joseph Smith.

It is not that you question what has been said, it is that you lambast, mock, and scoff the witness as the Pharisees did even after hearing the witness and seeing the miracles. They attacked Jesus and the apostles as you do and other like you do today. When Jesus said a perverted generation seek for a sign, he was not talking about those having faith and asking God to do a work. Jesus was talking about those who out of pride say show me again or show me now and I will believe. Those types really are saying: IT IS REAL IF I SAY IT IS because I am educated and more knowledgeable then you ignorant fishermen and carpenter

 

[obedienttogod]

The Holy Spirit is an IT!
Scripture says otherwise.
The Holy Spirit guides, leads, reveals, comforts.
The Holy Spirit can be grieved. How do you grieve an IT?
The Holy Spirit gives gifts.
The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son.
The Holy Spirit is eternal.
The Holy Spirit is Holy!
The Holy Spirit helps Christians in prayer.
The Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit.

(This IT business reminds me of Cousin Itt of the Addams family.)

The Holy Spirit is definitely a part of God. Jesus said His miracles are done by the Holy Spirit, which shows us the Holy spirit is the Power of God. God in Genesis, Exodus, and Jesus in Matthew called the Holy spirit the personal Spirit of God. Since the Holy Spirit is connected to God like God's personal Spirit, if God wants to comfort us, help us in prayer, bears witness, leads, reveals, guides, be grieved, give gifts, God Spirit does these things.

But the English translators took a verse where Yeshua referred to the Holy spirit as it 5 (FIVE) times and changed it to the word (he) plus added 2 more for a total of 7 times.

How do we go from Yeshua calling the Holy Spirit (IT) in the Aramaic, to us reading it as (HE) in the English?

Obviously, the English translators gave the Holy Spirit personal qualities the original words of Yeshua did not.

So, who is correct...how it's written in Aramaic, or how it's translated in English?

Do we go by what Yeshua (factually) said, or by what the English translators want us to believe?

 

[CS1]

Never mind the context, it is clear that gifts will cease, whether at the end of age (as you may believe) or in the first century as i believe. So cessation is biblical no doubt, i'm only giving reasons why it is 1st century and not any other time.

Never mind the context? Why do you resort to allegorizing of the scriptures and lack of proper exegesis? You think your education has replaced the Holy Spirit and the cannon of scripture has did away with the gifts of the Holy Spirit ….. but not all of them just the ones you do not agree with. the term cessation is not in the bible. it is not biblical it is a made up term .

 

[RickyZ]

I said so. You must have seen lies because it will be against:

Rev 14:
13And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”
14And I looked and saw a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was One like the Son of Man,c with a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.

15Then another angel came out of the temple, crying out in a loud voice to the One seated on the cloud, “Swing Your sickle and reap, because the time has come to harvest; for the crop of the earth is ripe.” 16So the One seated on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.


Again, if the Holy spirit distributes the gifts, raising the dead should be more and more because many people are dying daily. There's no single person in the entire world that goes around raising the dead like Paul did. Quit it.

Quit operating in the gifts of the Holy Spirit to bring glory to God.

Nah. Not gonna happen. Not going to join you in your grievous errors.

Funny you use the id 'Noose'. 'Cause all you're doing is hanging yourself from the tree of dead faith.

Like I said, I don't doubt that the gifts have ceased for you.

Good luck with that!

 

[obedienttogod]

Never mind the context, it is clear that gifts will cease, whether at the end of age (as you may believe) or in the first century as i believe. So cessation is biblical no doubt, i'm only giving reasons why it is 1st century and not any other time.

You do know there is the actual Greek verse to which the English you have was translated from. And it's obvious there was a mistake in translation because the word the English used actually means people's languages and they mistakenly translated it for Tongues?

So Paul is not even speaking about the gift of Tongues in that verse.

If you were as intelligent as you claim, you would know the English is a translation. Meaning, we have the actual Greek and can intelligently see this mistake. Well that is, except for you!!