Praying in Tongues

[CS1]

Marks of having Received the Holy Ghost
by
George Whitefield
(1714-1770)​

indeed, necessary that we should have the Spirit now given in that miraculous manner, in which he was at first given to our Lord's Apostles, by signs and wonders, but it is absolutely necessary, that we should receive the Holy Ghost in his sanctifying graces, as really as they did: and so will it continue to be till the end of the world.

The Baptism of the Holy Ghost – Charles G. Finney
by Charles G. Finney (1792-1875)​

In the following excerpt, Finney recounts his empowering by the Holy Spirit while alone in his law office after his conversion in the autumn of 1821. From his Memoirs of Rev. Charles G. Finney (New York: A.S. Barnes & Co., 1876) pp. 20-21.

JEREMY LANPHIER LED PRAYER REVIVAL
​

 

[obedienttogod]

Hey there.

can you please point me to that post where someone gave good info about the historicity regarding tongues?

I know you love me enough to find it for me. Im a lazy man.

This was provided to us by stonesoffire:

Encyclopedia of Pentecost history of tongues 150AD- 1901AD

• "Origins of Pentecostalism. Speaking in tongues. Glossolalia, the phenomenon of speaking in tongues, in the apostolic church is known primarily from the writings of St. Luke and St. Paul. After an initial outburst of speaking in tongues, in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, the phenomenon appeared later at Caesarea, Ephesus, and Corinth, a city in which prophets, healers, and speakers in tongues were very active. Other post-apostolic instances of glossolalia have been recorded throughout the history of the Christian church: among the Montanists (heretical followers of the 2nd-century Phrygian prophet Montanus), [comment: note the big jump in time between montanus 150 AD and Anabaptists 1521 AD] among radical Anabaptists (extreme left-wing Protestants in 16th-century Germany), and among the Camisards (a radical Protestant peasant group from southern France) and Jansenists (a Catholic reform movement) in 17th and 18th century France. The gift of tongues was also prolific among the Shakers, a celibate communal religious sect in the mid-18th century United States. During the 19th century, an outburst of glossolalia and some instances of healing occurred, notably in the Scottish preacher Edward Irving's church in London's Regent Square, among the Mormons, [comment: note that Mormons are also listed!] and among various groups of Holiness people in the mountains of Tennessee and North Carolina." (Pentecostal Churches, Encyclopedia Britannica, 1979, vol 14, p31

• )

 

[7seasrekeyed]

CS1 gave no single proof.
He mentioned what I already said: mostly heretic groups and cults where tounges occured and along with revival meetings ( mission actions )
But you cant tell me a Church where this was taught, what I asked for.
But maby you count Cults and heretic groups as regular christians.

umm...you trying to insult me here with the above?

I defined a REAL Christian as someone who follows Christ

you actually cannot tell anyone where tongues went the last 2000 years or so ago, because you were not there

is there a reason you and others seem to think that if a person speaks in tongues or it circulates in a body of believers, they should keep a record of it for you, knowing you would come along 1500 years later, so that you might believe?

that's how what you say sounds. unreasonsable and hardly and excuse to dismiss scripture

yah know? ever hear 'these are written so that you might believe?'..oh I know that applies to Christ, but He also sent the Holy Spirit and church records are not the criteria for believing

 

[7seasrekeyed]

That is it in a nutshell. There is no doubt that was the leading of the Holy Spirit. I can tell over the years of things I would never do of myself but the Holy Spirit led me so strongly to do so that I obeyed. And there is no doubt in my mind that it was the Holy Spirit.

I recall we sang in a church years ago that didn't believe in tongues. After the service was over and people had left we were invited to a room behind the stage. We walked in and people were praying and talking in tongues!! They didn't want to upset the unbelievers so they hid and prayed together. How sad they felt they couldn't share with the whole church. I'll never forget that church.

yup

in any churches you will find such people ... sometimes even the pastor or elders receive the infilling in spite of the negative attitudes

it's not really a denom occurrence but folks want to make it such so they can label everyone crazy and show a Benny Hinn video to 'prove' it

 

[Kavik]

A few comments by posters on the music video of DCD –

“I found the music 'snake like' and did not like her voice or intonations”

“I'm glad you said that about snake like because I envisioned belly dancing.”

How much world music do you listen to?? Her influence is very Middle Eastern (particularly the rhythms) but I also a hint of India; a tabla would be a good accompanying instrument to some of the intros "Cantata" (I think that’s the one) even has the whole intro played on a santoor.


Obedienttogod said –
And since nothing ends until Yeshua (Jesus) returns, I claim it is possible that some have already spoken in today's time in our NEW LANGUAGE!!

As I mentioned in reply to the same post on another thread -
That's a great theory, and if what people were uttering today were indeed an actual language, I would say, it's entirely possible. However, what is uttered today is just not language; it's non-cognitive non-language utterance - essentially free vocalization based on a definable source for the sounds being produced.

 

[obedienttogod]

Obedienttogod said –
And since nothing ends until Yeshua (Jesus) returns, I claim it is possible that some have already spoken in today's time in our NEW LANGUAGE!!

As I mentioned in reply to the same post on another thread -
That's a great theory, and if what people were uttering today were indeed an actual language, I would say, it's entirely possible. However, what is uttered today is just not language; it's non-cognitive non-language utterance - essentially free vocalization based on a definable source for the sounds being produced.

Great Point!!


Which is why I responded in the other thread with what I am copy/pasting for this thread:


One thing is for certain, we have never been able to hear a conversation between God and the heavenly body in their native (ours soon to be) language. I am not also trying to say our future language sounds like babbling and jibberish. It could sound that way, but I am not making that claim at all.

I will say the churches I am associated with, pays close attention to what is happening, even though we do believe in speaking in tongues.

We watch out for the seek a my bow tie, tie a my bow tie, wear a my bow tie, stupid crap.

I truly believe that when someone actually is speaking in tongues genuinely, they do not even know it. They are so focused on God and nothing else or what's around them. They are lost within the presence and Spirit of God. And their native language just changes for no apparent reason.

Just like when you have been praying and someone lays their hands on you (you don't notice or feel someone has done this - but this is what did take place) and when you finally feel your prayer is over, you realize you are laying on the ground. Not that you were flipping around like a fish dying, you just were overwhelmed and the power humbled you. No one genuine ever wants to be on the floor where people walk in whatever and now you are laying on it. But if it happens and you find yourself there, it's a powerful reality to understand God's power and our strength are no match at all.

 

[stonesoffire]

A few comments by posters on the music video of DCD –

“I found the music 'snake like' and did not like her voice or intonations”

“I'm glad you said that about snake like because I envisioned belly dancing.”

How much world music do you listen to?? Her influence is very Middle Eastern (particularly the rhythms) but I also a hint of India; a tabla would be a good accompanying instrument to some of the intros "Cantata" (I think that’s the one) even has the whole intro played on a santoor.


Obedienttogod said –
And since nothing ends until Yeshua (Jesus) returns, I claim it is possible that some have already spoken in today's time in our NEW LANGUAGE!!

As I mentioned in reply to the same post on another thread -
That's a great theory, and if what people were uttering today were indeed an actual language, I would say, it's entirely possible. However, what is uttered today is just not language; it's non-cognitive non-language utterance - essentially free vocalization based on a definable source for the sounds being produced.

How many languages can you identify Kavik?

 

[Kavik]

A few comments by posters on the music video of DCD –

Her influence is very Middle Eastern (particularly the rhythms) but I also a hint of India; a tabla would be a good accompanying instrument to some of the intros "Cantata" (I think that’s the one) even has the whole intro played on a santoor.

Actually, it's not Cantara; it's "Rakim" that has the santoor intro.

 

[Demi777]

Its sad how people can be so hate filled against the gifts of the Holy Spirit... shocking

 

[stonesoffire]

Actually, it's not Cantara; it's "Rakim" that has the santoor intro.

Had to look Rakim up. Good grief!

 

[Kavik]

How many languages can you identify Kavik?

LOL - that's kind of a tough one - I'm a Linguist and have been studying languages (ancient and modern) literally almost as far back as I can remember (45+ years). I'm also a musician (non-professional) and, I suppose with my love of languages, world (traditional/folk) music and folk instruments just came naturally. There's very little traditional world folk music styles/genresI haven't heard.

With languages - spoken and written - If you put something written in front of me, chances are I can tell you what language it is (though I may not speak it). Some I may not be able to read (if it's a non-Roman script), but I can tell you what part of the world to look to specifically identify it (and/or identify it for you). Spoken languages - obviously I don't speak them all (if I did, I'd be somewhere in Washington earning the big bucks! ), but again, I can either identify the language or at least tell you what corner of the world I suspect it's spoken. I've heard either spoken, or sung, over the past 45 or so years literally thousands of languages.

I don't say the above to boast, or brag, please don't take it the wrong way, but I don't really think I'm unique as far as many Linguists go; there's plenty of people out there with as much or more experience in world's languages than I. And I'm sure there are folk musicologists with more world folk music experience as well.

 

[Kavik]

Had to look Rakim up. Good grief!

LOL - yeah, it's got a pretty long intro. I just happened on it while listening to the ones posted in this thread.

 

[garee]

umm...you trying to insult me here with the above?

I defined a REAL Christian as someone who follows Christ

you actually cannot tell anyone where tongues went the last 2000 years or so ago, because you were not there

is there a reason you and others seem to think that if a person speaks in tongues or it circulates in a body of believers, they should keep a record of it for you, knowing you would come along 1500 years later, so that you might believe?

that's how what you say sounds. unreasonsable and hardly and excuse to dismiss scripture

yah know? ever hear 'these are written so that you might believe?'..oh I know that applies to Christ, but He also sent the Holy Spirit and church records are not the criteria for believing

Its historical foundation is found in Isaiah 28. The doctrine gives some interesting facts as to why in the future God would demonstrate the pouring out of His Spirit in tongues on a new people as He did in Acts 2 . It would probably be a good place to start, it was written almost 3000 years ago thousand of years ago. In that way it would seem we can know what we are looking for and what the sign confirms?

 

[Hevosmies]

yup

in any churches you will find such people ... sometimes even the pastor or elders receive the infilling in spite of the negative attitudes

it's not really a denom occurrence but folks want to make it such so they can label everyone crazy and show a Benny Hinn video to 'prove' it

i speak in tongues AND im crazy.

GOTCHA!

 

[garee]

i speak in tongues AND im crazy.

GOTCHA!

Every person that speaks, speaks some langage as a tongue and we are all crazy .

Is the Pentecostals idea of tongues, making sounds without meaning. Are tongues not languages but are sounds. When a child is first born is the first sound considered a tongue. if so what does it confirm .

 

[7seasrekeyed]

i speak in tongues AND im crazy.

GOTCHA!

should we ask which came first?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

"Kavik, post: 3827465, member: 253767"]A few comments by posters on the music video of DCD –

“I found the music 'snake like' and did not like her voice or intonations”

“I'm glad you said that about snake like because I envisioned belly dancing.”

How much world music do you listen to?? Her influence is very Middle Eastern (particularly the rhythms) but I also a hint of India; a tabla would be a good accompanying instrument to some of the intros "Cantata" (I think that’s the one) even has the whole intro played on a santoor.

why do you consider yourself an expert on tongues? you have no background

however, I do have a broad and working background in music and plenty of experience...including bands and singing with others, both my own songs and cover songs

I am familiar with eastern music and different instruments. you desire to prove biblical tongues are not real

you fail to recognize the spirit in eastern influenced music because you have a worldview that does not include the spiritual

 

[garee]

why do you consider yourself an expert on tongues? you have no background

however, I do have a broad and working background in music and plenty of experience...including bands and singing with others, both my own songs and cover songs

I am familiar with eastern music and different instruments. you desire to prove biblical tongues are not real

you fail to recognize the spirit in eastern influenced music because you have a worldview that does not include the spiritual

What would recognizing the spirit in eastern influenced music that does include the spiritual have to do with the biblical doctrine of tongues.?

The historical background as a foundation of tongues is found in Isaiah 28 as a biblical view. It would be a good place to begin the research which met its fulfillment promised through Joel in Acts 2.

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:Acts 2:16 -18

 

[wolfwint]

you need to show where your assertion came from.

You are right. About Martin Luther ( i raised up in the protestant church) and Calvin I cant find any reference that they taught the baptism with the Holy Spirit and as sign for that the gift of speaking with tongues. If you have scriptures which shows the opposite please let me know. -You gave me only a list with names-
Irvingism which turns into the New Apostolic Church, Mormons, Shakers and Montanism I would not accept as a proof that the baptism with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues was taught.
Augustinus wrote in his book: about the baptism against the Dotanism: that receiving the Holy Spirit with visible miracles was in the beginning of the church for to spread the gospel and "who will expect today, if somebody was layed on the hand for to receive the Holy Spired immidiently will speak in tongues?"
(We have to recognize that the Montanism movement exist till the 6th century ) Tertullian f.e. later became member of the Montanism doctrine.
So, nobody from the so called churchfathers taught what we can find in the pentecostal movement.
You mentioned revival meetings like the revival in Wales. It may be that along to this revivals tonguespeaking was found. But this continued not.
(I found writer which claimed that the revival in Wales became to an end when american pentecostals attend those meetings.)

I could not find pentecostal theology in Dwight Moodys ministry ( he died 1899 ) . In the book: The great Revivalists in America. I found this passage on page 147: about Aimee Sample McPherson:" .. this was something new in mainstream rrevialism ( though already happening on pentecostal meetings) an emphasis not just on the healing of the soul but the healing of the physical body as well. This was something not seen in Edwards, Finney, Moody or Sunday...."

So I cant find that Moody taught the baptism with the Holy Spirit and as sign for this speaking in tongues.

If you can show me the opposit I would be thankful if you can show me the textpassage too.

So far I found no teaching about that what the pentecostal teach since 1900.
In the former churchhistory.
I found it not in Pauls ore anybodys letter of the NT.
You have to create an doctrine in mixing acts and 1. Cor. for to claim your teaching.

 

[RickyZ]

Every person that speaks, speaks some langage as a tongue and we are all crazy .

Is the Pentecostals idea of tongues, making sounds without meaning. Are tongues not languages but are sounds. When a child is first born is the first sound considered a tongue. if so what does it confirm .

Yet a mother can tell you what her baby needs by the "gibberish"

It's sad so many believe God's knowledge is limited by THEIR understanding.