Praying in Tongues

[garee]

Yet a mother can tell you what her baby needs by the "gibberish"

It's sad so many believe God's knowledge is limited by THEIR understanding.

Yes its very sad that the Jews limited by THEIR own understanding as oral traditions of the fathers refused to hear the written tradition of God. it was offensive to them And so in their mocking God .God with mocking lips as a sign against them opened up the manner of brining new prophecy after all the nations no longer in Hebrew alone . Yet for all that they refused as in it offended them to believe prophecy and saw no evil in doing so just as today.

As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.jerimiah 44: 16 -17

it would seem God I effect replied well mock my prophecy, I will mock you as use you as a sign that all nations might understand that those Jews were following after commandments of men as a signs and wonders gospel and not after all things written in the law and the prophets (scripture)

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:Isiaiah 28:11-15

 

[stonesoffire]

Yes its very sad that the Jews limited by THEIR own understanding as oral traditions of the fathers refused to hear the written tradition of God. it was offensive to them And so in their mocking God .God with mocking lips as a sign against them opened up the manner of brining new prophecy after all the nations no longer in Hebrew alone . Yet for all that they refused as in it offended them to believe prophecy and saw no evil in doing so just as today.

As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.jerimiah 44: 16 -17

it would seem God I effect replied well mock my prophecy, I will mock you as use you as a sign that all nations might understand that those Jews were following after commandments of men as a signs and wonders gospel and not after all things written in the law and the prophets (scripture)

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:Isiaiah 28:11-15

You don't really understand the true meaning of these verses Gary. The important truth that God is conveying here, is the baptism of Holy Spirit, with tongues as a sign, is that God has changed the priesthood, given a new sabbath rest, and restored what Adam lost. And all the world with him.

Tongues and prophecy or declaring the mighty works of God through Yeshua (salvation) has given us rest from works of men to please God (which fail completely with fallen man) to do the works that Yeshua performed.

He is our sabbath rest if a member of His body on earth through the new birth, and baptisms both water and Spirit. I know the last statement will bring other opinions but is what Yeshua said. And why am I now writing Yeshua? Because His name is a declaration. Jesus comes from Greek and a mythological god.

If not partaking of His rest through Spirit, then rules are being promoted. It's all of what will we believe? His work is enough to save? If not I suggest you search salvation, save, saved, and any other words that would apply to ITS FINISHED!

 

[wolfwint]

umm...you trying to insult me here with the above?

I defined a REAL Christian as someone who follows Christ

you actually cannot tell anyone where tongues went the last 2000 years or so ago, because you were not there

is there a reason you and others seem to think that if a person speaks in tongues or it circulates in a body of believers, they should keep a record of it for you, knowing you would come along 1500 years later, so that you might believe?

that's how what you say sounds. unreasonsable and hardly and excuse to dismiss scripture

yah know? ever hear 'these are written so that you might believe?'..oh I know that applies to Christ, but He also sent the Holy Spirit and church records are not the criteria for believing

umm...you trying to insult me here with the above?

I defined a REAL Christian as someone who follows Christ

you actually cannot tell anyone where tongues went the last 2000 years or so ago, because you were not there

is there a reason you and others seem to think that if a person speaks in tongues or it circulates in a body of believers, they should keep a record of it for you, knowing you would come along 1500 years later, so that you might believe?

that's how what you say sounds. unreasonsable and hardly and excuse to dismiss scripture

yah know? ever hear 'these are written so that you might believe?'..oh I know that applies to Christ, but He also sent the Holy Spirit and church records are not the criteria for believing

Well I can say that after the 4th century no church taught: baptism with the Holy Spirit and as sign for it speaking in toungues.
There only references that there was toungue speaking in churches. ( and it is not shure they meant the heretic group of montanism which exist from around 157 AD till the end of the 6th century)
And the list which stones postet are full of heretic groups with strange teachings and sects/cults.
Not realy a reason for me to believe false teachings.

 

[garee]

You don't really understand the true meaning of these verses Gary. The important truth that God is conveying here, is the baptism of Holy Spirit, with tongues as a sign, is that God has changed the priesthood, given a new sabbath rest, and restored what Adam lost. And all the world with him.

Tongues and prophecy or declaring the mighty works of God through Yeshua (salvation) has given us rest from works of men to please God (which fail completely with fallen man) to do the works that Yeshua performed.

He is our sabbath rest if a member of His body on earth through the new birth, and baptisms both water and Spirit. I know the last statement will bring other opinions but is what Yeshua said. And why am I now writing Yeshua? Because His name is a declaration. Jesus comes from Greek and a mythological god.

If not partaking of His rest through Spirit, then rules are being promoted. It's all of what will we believe? His work is enough to save? If not I suggest you search salvation, save, saved, and any other words that would apply to ITS FINISHED!

The true meaning of the verse in respect to the tongues doctrine accordioning the foundation in Isiahaha28, as to what the sign confirms is that the apostate Jew that had no faith that alone comes from hearing God refused to hear prophecy, it offended their beliefs .

This is prophecy in any language to include their own tongue. God fulfilled that promise at Pentecost when he fulfilled the Joel promise at that same time . The sign that those 3000 did hear acknowledging it was God's interpretation is that they mixed faith or believed the prophecy . The outward sign was against the Jews he was mocking because they refused to believe .

The sign that a person has heard the Holy Spirit is that they believe God in their hearts which only God alone can see.

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.! Corinthians 14:21-22

The baptism of Holy Spirit or the hearing of faith by which we can believe God , with tongues as a sign is a person has head the gospel and believed . it is like we are informed 3000 in the twinkling of the eye were given the faith of Christ to believe God and they prophesied God's words in their own tongue hearing each other although they were not of the same language or tongue.

It would seem that the doctrine has been made to no effect by those who seek afater signs hoping they will confirm rather than walking by faith mixing faith in what they do hear coming from God. No such thing as a sign gift. spitueal unseen gifts yes .

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?Acts 2:4-7


But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:Acts 2:16-18

To prophesy is to declare prophecy "the word of God". It is not to make a noise in a hope of being heard on high as a confirmation and look for a interpretation from another man as to what the meaning is. That comes from another foundation other than Isaiah 28.

 

[stonesoffire]

Well I can say that after the 4th century no church taught: baptism with the Holy Spirit and as sign for it speaking in toungues.
There only references that there was toungue speaking in churches. ( and it is not shure they meant the heretic group of montanism which exist from around 157 AD till the end of the 6th century)
And the list which stones postet are full of heretic groups with strange teachings and sects/cults.
Not realy a reason for me to believe false teachings.

It was from the encyclopedia brittanica. Was just giving info. However, we don't know if in the beginning of these groups there was heresy being taught. Plus no one has to be perfect in understanding to receive Holy Spirit. He's the Teacher.

 

[stonesoffire]

The true meaning of the verse in respect to the tongues doctrine accordioning the foundation in Isiahaha28, as to what the sign confirms is that the apostate Jew that had no faith that alone comes from hearing God refused to hear prophecy, it offended their beliefs .

This is prophecy in any language to include their own tongue. God fulfilled that promise at Pentecost when he fulfilled the Joel promise at that same time . The sign that those 3000 did hear acknowledging it was God's interpretation is that they mixed faith or believed the prophecy . The outward sign was against the Jews he was mocking because they refused to believe .

The sign that a person has heard the Holy Spirit is that they believe God in their hearts which only God alone can see.

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.! Corinthians 14:21-22

The baptism of Holy Spirit or the hearing of faith by which we can believe God , with tongues as a sign is a person has head the gospel and believed . it is like we are informed 3000 in the twinkling of the eye were given the faith of Christ to believe God and they prophesied God's words in their own tongue hearing each other although they were not of the same language or tongue.

It would seem that the doctrine has been made to no effect by those who seek afater signs hoping they will confirm rather than walking by faith mixing faith in what they do hear coming from God. No such thing as a sign gift. spitueal unseen gifts yes .

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?Acts 2:4-7


But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:Acts 2:16-18

To prophesy is to declare prophecy "the word of God". It is not to make a noise in a hope of being heard on high as a confirmation and look for a interpretation from another man as to what the meaning is. That comes from another foundation other than Isaiah 28.

I'm sorry but I must say it. Gobbledegook. Must I interpret?

 

[garee]

I'm sorry but I must say it. Gobbledegook. Must I interpret?

If you want to you can....sorry for the tongue" Gobbledegook".

Yes, Isaiah 28 the foundation of tongues must be interpreted or how else will a person know what the purpose was that God did mock them that refused to believe prophecy as a sign against them .

Just look to the law . What do you think it confirms? ….and yet for all that will they not hear me, said the Lord

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to "them" that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.1 Corinthian14:21-22

No sign gifts. Signs are for those who rebel and refuse to hear prophecy as the one source of Christian faith as it is written

 

[dcontroversal]

Its sad how people can be so hate filled against the gifts of the Holy Spirit... shocking

That is a pretty bold accusation...........

 

[Dino246]

Signs are for those who rebel and refuse to hear prophecy as the one source of Christian faith as it is written

Oft-refuted, closed-minded, blinders-on hogwash.

Genesis 9:13 says, "I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a SIGN of a covenant between Me and the earth.

 

[garee]

Oft-refuted, closed-minded, blinders-on hogwash.

Genesis 9:13 says, "I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a SIGN of a covenant between Me and the earth.

Signs follow do they do not lead as something to seek after in order to confirm something. Rainbows follow rain. Tt has nothing to do with the tongue foundation in Isaiah 28 and law found in 1 Corinthian 14 and yet for all that they will not hear the word of God as a sign against them .Closed to prophecy minded, oral traditions blinders-on hogwash.

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

 

[garee]

You don't really understand the true meaning of these verses Gary. The important truth that God is conveying here, is the baptism of Holy Spirit, with tongues as a sign, is that God has changed the priesthood, given a new sabbath rest, and restored what Adam lost. And all the world with him.

No outwards signs to confirm . The baptism of Holy Spirit, with tongues as a sign, is that God is mocking the Jews who mocked him . Like when Aarons sons had a desire to enter the priesthood . It was not a sign that confirmed they had the Holy Spirit. When they added their own sign with strange fire it confirmed they did not believe the word of God but sought after their own kind of works of self righteousness, in self edification .

No outward sign gifts . The gift of hearing prophecy is that people can belive God. they walk by faith not demanding a sign before they will believe.

 

[Dino246]

Signs follow do they do not lead as something to seek after in order to confirm something. Rainbows follow rain.

Well, I see no point in trying further to convince someone whose mind is so tightly shut to learning.

 

[wolfwint]

It was from the encyclopedia brittanica. Was just giving info. However, we don't know if in the beginning of these groups there was heresy being taught. Plus no one has to be perfect in understanding to receive Holy Spirit. He's the Teacher.

The Holy Spirit is teaching the truth!! You say with your words that the Holy Spirit is teaching lies. Nowhere he is teaching that a person is the Holy Spirit (Montanus claimed that he is the promissed advocator) ore that we must have 12 Apostles today, ore that we must have a book mormon equal to the bible.
But false spirits does it!
And for me this went in this direction with the pentecostal and charismatic movements.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Its sad how people can be so hate filled against the gifts of the Holy Spirit... shocking

worse than sad

5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Turn away from such as these!

7always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

II Timothy 3

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Oft-refuted, closed-minded, blinders-on hogwash.

Genesis 9:13 says, "I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a SIGN of a covenant between Me and the earth.

ever hear the joke 'some people have a mind that is like cement. all mixed up and set'

funny, but not funny

 

[Kavik]

why do you consider yourself an expert on tongues? you have no background

however, I do have a broad and working background in music and plenty of experience...including bands and singing with others, both my own songs and cover songs

I am familiar with eastern music and different instruments. you desire to prove biblical tongues are not real

you fail to recognize the spirit in eastern influenced music because you have a worldview that does not include the spiritual

I don’t believe I’ve ever said that. That said, as I’ve mentioned in over posts, modern tongues are very tangible; they can be recorded, transcribed, and analyzed. The results of these studies are all essentially the same. There just isn’t anything that’s being produced that can’t be explained in terms of fairly easy linguistics. The processes used, even the sounds themselves are all very easily explained. This doesn’t exactly scream “divine”.

As I said, if what was being produced today could be said to be a definite language of some sort; i.e. it had structure, a definable phonemic inventory, a relatively set grammar, syntax, etc., I’d say we’re definitely on to something quite fascinating and supernatural. But this is simply not the case. There are as many “tongues” as there are speakers and many speakers will create more than one ‘tongue’ (they’re simply drawing from a different phonemic inventory). This also does not scream “divine”. If tongues were some sort of ‘angelic’, or ‘divine’ language – a language to be spoken on the spiritual/heavenly plane, why would there ever be a need for more than just one (universal ‘tongue’)?

My worldview includes the spiritual; perhaps not in the same context as yours, but it’s most certainly there. And, yes, I recognize the spiritual in quite a bit of world music (not that it has anything to do with ‘tongues’).

Record yourself speaking for about a minute or so (and even post it here if you’d like) – play it back and listen to it – truly listen to what you’re producing. Is it really language, or merrily a façade of language?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I don’t believe I’ve ever said that.

no

you just constantly hint at it

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Record yourself speaking for about a minute or so (and even post it here if you’d like) – play it back and listen to it – truly listen to what you’re producing. Is it really language, or merrily a façade of language?

you understand nothing of what we are speaking of here

and you just proved it again

you are not saved and it does not matter what you believe. you have hung around the forums long enough to know that there is one name under heaven whereby you might be saved

all you do here, is attempt to negate faith in Christ

you say you do not want to brag, yet all you do is brag. constant whining about how no one but you understands what tongues are

next you will tell us you have found the human soul and are now studying it

here

a verse I posted above fits you quite well...like a glove in fact


7always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. II Timothy 3

 

[Hevosmies]

is there a reason you and others seem to think that if a person speaks in tongues or it circulates in a body of believers, they should keep a record of it for you, knowing you would come along 1500 years later, so that you might believe?

that's how what you say sounds. unreasonsable and hardly and excuse to dismiss scripture

This is my official mark! Now someone in 3000AD can go back and check out what kinda heretics there were in 2019!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

This is my official mark! Now someone in 3000AD can go back and check out what kinda heretics there were in 2019!

so you think you will go down in history?

the truth has always been suspect