predestination vs freewill

[OIC1965]

Do you teach Jesus is God in your ministry?

There’s folks here that rightly believe who would be saved but at the same time think that He doesnt know what He’s going to do with them until they get saved in time.

Makes no sense.

 

[OIC1965]

Predestination of what? those who love Him? What is the pronoun, a word used in place of a noun or noun phrase, "those" referring back to, other than "those who love Him?" And why should it be interpreted that His foreknowledge is the cause of response apart from the hearing of the word, that faith comes by, which is declared to all the world?

God predestined us BEFORE He loved us. We weren’t even called or justified when He predestined us.

 

[Kidron]

See post 514

So are you saying that God knew you would be saved from eternity past,

Just that part, OIC1965.

See, God KNEW i would believe in Jesus........that is FOREKNOWLEDE.
Its the knowledge of all things, BEFORE they happen.

God knows everything that is going to happen, before it happens.....= Foreknowledge.

This is KNOWING BEFORE IT OCCURS>............which is not the same as causing it to happen.

Tonight, all of us will go and get some sleep.
God know we would, on this night, before we were born.
That is God knowing we will all go to sleep, .......but that is not God CAUSING US to go to sleep.

KNOWING is not the same as CAUSING.

Foreknowledge, is KNOWING>...........before it happens........... and that is all.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Are you trying to say that because English is the universal language, that the English bible should not be used if a person reads english?

Also...I know of this cult that hates the KJV....and its a sad situation.

They should had the NIV, as that one is rotten.

I'm a "Pauline Theology"..... look that up.

And i said that English is the universal language, and that the english bible is the bible.
Ive not said that you can't use anything but a KJV.
All of us have freewill. We can do what we want, including using a Quran
I use a few bibles, but mostly i use a Bible Promise Book, and a Messianic Golden Verses.

If a person does not speak English or understand any English and uses a Bible written in his or her native language and translated from the NASB or ERV or ASV or ESV or KJV or NKJV, are they getting the full counsel of God?

 

[OIC1965]

"predestined to be conformed'..........Into WHAT?
You dont know, and that is why you can't hear me.

The born again are predestined to be conformed, "into the image of Christ".
That is what is pre-destined to happen, AFTER you are born again.

Yes, predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, which is the capstone of our salvation. Now since God already knew you were going to be saved in eternity past, why does He need to wait until you get saved to purpose in His heart to bless you by conforming you into the image of His Son?

 

[OIC1965]

Just that part, OIC1965.

See, God KNEW i would believe in Jesus........that is FOREKNOWLEDE.
Its the knowledge of all things, BEFORE they happen.

God knows everything that is going to happen, before it happens.....= Foreknowledge.

This is KNOWING BEFORE IT OCCURS>............which is not the same as causing it to happen.

Tonight, all of us will go and get some sleep.
God know we would, on this night, before we were born.
That is God knowing we will all go to sleep, .......but that is not God CAUSING US to go to sleep.

KNOWING is not the same as CAUSING.

Foreknowledge, is KNOWING>...........before it happens........... and that is all.

God knew that you would be saved ( foreknowledge)

He also knew and purposed that He would conform you into the image of His Son. ( predestination)

You heard the Gospel and believed. ( called)

God declared you righteous on the basis of Christ’s righteousness ( justified)

He will complete the good work when Jesus returns ( glorified)

Simple.

Have a blessed night.

 

[Mem]

God predestined us BEFORE He loved us. We weren’t even called or justified when He predestined us.

He loved us after He predestined us?

 

[Kidron]

Do you teach Jesus is God in your ministry?

As long as i am breathing, i'll teach that God is Christ on the Cross, resurrected, and now seated at the right hand of the Father.

I would never be found in life, or on a public forum denying the Deity of Christ.
Oh no no no no nooooooo...

Jerry,
Did you ever read where Thomas the Apostle said.......upon seeing Jesus after He rose from the dead......>"my Lord and my GOD"?
What happened next?
= Jesus didnt correct him.

Did you read that """God is manifested in the Flesh"""? That is Christ being born.

Did you read that Jesus said He is "I AM"?......He told the Pharisees....>"Before Abraham existed, .... I AM".

Who is "I Am"? ..... A.) God told Moses from the Burning Bush... I am that I am", and Jesus told the Pharisees, ...that He is "I Am"".

See it?

Did you ever read that God created all things, by speaking? God said..>"Let there be".......and Creation appeared.
And before Christ came down as the Bread from Heaven, He is "the WORD of God". In the beginning there was the WORD.
Jesus is the WORD made Flesh.
And God spoke words to make all things..

Now, go and Read Colossians 1:16 and you find that Paul says that all things were created by JESUS..

Then, go and read John 1:10........as John teaches that Jesus made the WORLD.

 

[OIC1965]

He loved us after He predestined us?

Sorry. I meant to say God predestined us before we loved Him. See post 526

 

[Mem]

Sorry. I meant to say God predestined us before we loved Him. See post 526

Ok, just checking for surety.
Right, He foreknew those who would love Him.

 

[Kidron]

why does He need to wait until you get saved to purpose in His heart to bless you by conforming you into the image of His Son?

Because you have to be forgiven all your sin, first.
Why dont you know this?

Why do you think Jesus died on the Cross?

Why do you think that Jesus told Apostles to "go into all the world and Preach the Gospel, and all who BELIEVE".........

 

[Magenta]

ROMANS 5:8

John 3:16

 

[Kidron]

God knew that you would be saved ( foreknowledge)
He also knew and purposed that He would conform you into the image of His Son. ( predestination)
You heard the Gospel and believed. ( called)
God declared you righteous on the basis of Christ’s righteousness ( justified)
He will complete the good work when Jesus returns ( glorified)
Simple.
Have a blessed night.

You have things out of order, but, you are not teaching that God saves some and pre-destines others not to be saved.
So, that good.

 

[rogerg]

You can't believe unless you HEAR THE MESSAGE, so that '"""Faith comes by HEARING".

Hearing with spiritual ears, not bodily ears. Those ears must be given to the recipient by God first-- after becoming born again.
Plus, faith is a fruit of the Spirit meaning, they must first be born again in order to have faith

[Rom 11:7 KJV] 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
[Rom 11:8 KJV] 8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

 

[OIC1965]

Ok, just checking for surety.
Right, He foreknew those who would love Him.

And predestined them when He foreknew them. He knew we would be saved and purposed to conform us to Christ’s image. Otherwise you have God Foreknowing us and not knowing that He would glorify us until aeons later.

 

[OIC1965]

You have things out of order, but, you are not teaching that God saves some and pre-destines others not to be saved.
So, that good.

I put them in the same order that Paul did.

Do you think God knew you would be saved without knowing and purposing to conform you to Christ’s image as well?

You appear to be conflating predestination with the thing we are predestined to.

 

[Mem]

And predestined them when He foreknew them. He knew we would be saved and purposed to conform us to Christ’s image. Otherwise you have God Foreknowing us and not knowing that He would glorify us until aeons later.

He predestined us to be conformed to His image, which we were far from at the first moment of loving Him. We loved Him because He first loved us, and so loved Him because we believed (that He loved us , so much as to die for our salvation).

 

[Mem]

It is implied by the thread title that predestination and free will are incompatible? Why must this be so?

 

[OIC1965]

He predestined us to be conformed to His image, which we were far from at the first moment of loving Him. We loved Him because He first loved us, and so loved Him because we believed (that He loved us , so much as to die for our salvation).

Foreknowledge and predestining are both part of the eternal purpose which God purposed before the foundation of the worlds. God didn’t purpose in piecemeal.

 

[OIC1965]

It is implied by the thread title that predestination and free will are incompatible? Why must this be so?

I said myself it’s a false dichotomy in a way