predestination vs freewill

[Kidron]

So you hold that the apostles were teaching a false gospel until Paul arrrived?

The apostles dont really teach a gospel, actually.
You find Peter in ACTs 2, speaking in Tongues, inviting JEWS to receive Messiah, and that's about it.

Later, when Paul arrived, as a "chosen vessel" to the Gentiles, He was given the Gospel, that is what He calls, "my Gospel", that is the preaching of the Cross and the offer of the "Gift of Reconciliation".

 

[OIC1965]

Want me to apply some more?
Look at my posts.
Its not common that i answer without scriptural exegesis, if the topic is a NT idea or actual verse.

Give me a NT Scripture, that is not found in the Revelation, and ill perform a exegesis for you.

So if I said I used the Greek text to exegete, doesn’t that presuppose I read it? How do you exegete a text without reading it?

 

[Kidron]

Are you saying that the men who worked on the AV also worked in the production of the Textus Receptus?

what?

no.

the "erasmus" text was not created by the KJV translators.

 

[OIC1965]

The apostles dont really teach a gospel, actually.
You find Peter in ACTs 2, speaking in Tongues, inviting JEWS to receive Messiah, and that's about it.

Later, when Paul arrived, as a "chosen vessel" to the Gentiles, He was given the Gospel, that is what He calls, "my Gospel", that is the preaching of the Cross and the offer of the "Gift of Reconciliation".

Again, is it your claim that the men who worked on the AV also worked in the production of the TR

Are you conflating the AV with the TR?

 

[Kidron]

So if I said I used the Greek text to exegete, doesn’t that presuppose I read it? How do you exegete a text without reading it?

the same way you can fake it on a Christian forum.
exactly as those who can't read a word of greek, but read a translation, say.....>"here is what the greek says"

 

[Kidron]

Again, is it your claim that the men who worked on the AV also worked in the production of the TR

Are you conflating the AV with the TR?

Post #803

 

[OIC1965]

what?

no.

the "erasmus" text was not created by the KJV translators.

Then why did you give the answer you gave when I asked you how many texts were used to produce the TR?

The question stands. How many texts were used in the production of the TR?

 

[Kidron]

Then why did you give the answer you gave when I asked you how many texts were used to produce the TR?

The question stands. How many texts were used in the production of the TR?

Wrong question.

You meant to say......how many "manuscripts"..
And i answered that, already.

 

[Kidron]

So you’re saying Peter and John didn’t teach blood atonement for salvation?

And the books of Matthew, Mark, and John can in no way be called epistles.

Let me show you ...

Look at this verse................ """"'

Rom. 16:25: Now to Him that is of power to stablish you according to = MY GOSPEL.....and the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began."""""

Now, here is some exegesis for you, oic1965.

Notice that PAUL said.....>>"this my Gospel. (the revelation of the MYSTERY).....= was hidden since the world began"......but now Its not hidden, because HE IS TELLING YOU WHAT IT IS.
Comprehendo ???

And now notice this ........Paul knew of the 12 apostles.......and yet he said that until He gave "MY GOSPEL"< it was HIDDEN.
That means, the other Apostles didn't know it, yet......as this GOSPEL came by PAUL....

Think on that, as that is the reality.

 

[OIC1965]

Wrong question.

You meant to say......how many "manuscripts"..
And i answered that, already.

You said 100. So are you saying 100 Greek texts were used to produce the TR? Because I asked you how many texts were used for TR and you said 100

And how many Greek texts were used in producing the Nestle, btw?

 

[Kidron]

You said 100. So are you saying 100 Greek texts were used to produce the TR?

And how many Greek texts were used in producing the Nestle?

You lied.
I said less than 100.

So, when you can be honest, we can continue, otherwise, just do what you do best......"vain jangling".

 

[OIC1965]

You lied.
I said less than 100.

So, when you can be honest, we can continue, otherwise, just do what you do best......"vain jangling".

Sorry. I went back and saw I misread. So how many texts were used to produce the TR?

And I don’t know where the number 100 came from. You said “ I don’t think it was 100”. Who said it was?

Also, How many texts were used to produce Nestle?

 

[OIC1965]

You lied.
I said less than 100.

So, when you can be honest, we can continue, otherwise, just do what you do best......"vain jangling".

So you said that only 30 extant Greek texts are considered authentic and used. So they only use(d) 30 Greek texts when they produce(d) Greek NT editions?

The Greek New Testament I have sitting beside me is based on only 30 Greek texts?!!!

 

[fredoheaven]

There are many many many Greek manuscripts, but about 30 are recognized as authentic, and about 3-4 are actually used to create english Bibles.

Let me explain this to you..............Look at the Canon Text.........you have slightly less then 40 epistle in the NT< but there are many other epistles, that are not used.......so, we dont consider what is not accepted.
So it is with Greek texts..

Also, i dont recall you saying "i read Greek", in a post.
did i miss it?
Can you post the number of the post where you said....."I can fluently READ Koine GREEK"???
Maybe i missed it.

Yep, I am getting your point. The 40 ones will include the Apocrypha which was canonized by the Roman Catholic Church but these were not recognized of the less than 40 which fall around 34 by my guess( 12 books-Approcrypha + 22 Books of NT) by the Protestants and the Jews. Yes, the formation of the NT Canon did not contain all the 27 books so that the Western world accept all but 22, the Eastern Greek would resist the Book of Revelation and the Eastern Syrian 2 Peter, II & III John, Jude, and Revelation.

 

[OIC1965]

Yep, I am getting your point. The 40 ones will include the Apocrypha which was canonized by the Roman Catholic Church but these were not recognized less than 40 which fall around 34 by my guess( 12 books-Approcrypha + 22 Books of NT) by the Protestants and the Jews. Yes, the formation of the NT Canon did not contain all the 27 books so that the Western world accept all but 22, the Eastern Greek would resist the Book of Revelation and the Eastern Syrian 2 Peter, II & III John, Jude, and Revelation.

He said 27 books of the Protestant NT are epistles. And he also said that there are only 30 extant Greek texts then changed his argument to only 30 Greek texts are authentic and used.

 

[OIC1965]

You lied.
I said less than 100.

So, when you can be honest, we can continue, otherwise, just do what you do best......"vain jangling".

So I was honest and said I misread you (post 812). So will you answer the question?

Are you saying that only 30 Greek texts were used in my Greek New Testament sitting next to me?

Is that what they told you when you studied textual criticism at seminary?

 

[Kidron]

Sorry. I went back and saw I misread. So how many texts were used to produce the TR?
And I don’t know where the number 100 came from. You said “ I don’t think it was 100”. Who said it was?

Also, How many texts were used to produce Nestle?

Less then 100 manuscripts used to create the TR.

i dont remember the number. Look it up.
But, this will become moot, as they keep revising it, to make it more inaccurate.

 

[OIC1965]

the same way you can fake it on a Christian forum.
exactly as those who can't read a word of greek, but read a translation, say.....>"here is what the greek says"

So what evidence do you have that I’m faking it?

 

[OIC1965]

Less then 100 manuscripts used to create the TR.

i dont remember the number. Look it up.
But, this will become moot, as they keep revising it, to make it more inaccurate.

Shouldn’t it be less than 30, seeing that you claimed that only 30 Greek manuscripts are considered authentic and used EVEN TODAY?

 

[OIC1965]

Less then 100 manuscripts used to create the TR.

i dont remember the number. Look it up.
But, this will become moot, as they keep revising it, to make it more inaccurate.

Well, I guess since you stated that only 30 authentic, extant texts of Greek exist, we have a problem if they used anywhere close to 100 for the TR or the AV.