predestination vs freewill
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Absolute obedience to the Law, is what the blind Jews believe. However, absolute obedience cannot be done. This is why the Law brings death and not life. Salvation by works is dead, dead, dead.
Absolute obedience to Christ is just as impossible.
1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
You gave a verse on eternal Salvation, I was talking about Eternal Security. Taught in the following:
Rom_8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Joh_10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
It's really pretty simple. God purposed it. He is greater than all. Who is going to stop Him? The Elect are in the Book of the Lamb. The Father gave to the Son and the Son will lose nothing. Eternal Security.
Absolute obedience to Christ is just as impossible.
1Jn_2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
You gave a verse on eternal Salvation, I was talking about Eternal Security. Taught in the following:
Rom_8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Joh_10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
It's really pretty simple. God purposed it. He is greater than all. Who is going to stop Him? The Elect are in the Book of the Lamb. The Father gave to the Son and the Son will lose nothing. Eternal Security.
It is indeed astounding and so perfect in it's complexity and completeness.
I have often compared the Scriptures, to a Faceted Diamond. The Superficial knowledge of Scripture, which can be known by all, is like looking straight down on the Diamond and beholding it's overall beauty. For those who are born anew and led by the Spirit, they look straight down and see not only the overall beauty of the Diamond but it's radiant light within. As they continue their studies, they begin to see this Diamond through it's many, many facets. Each facet, revealing another meaning and application of the same verse. The whole stone, magnifying the infinite mind of God. No one, will ever see, every revelation within every facet. So it is with the Scriptures.
I have often compared the Scriptures, to a Faceted Diamond. The Superficial knowledge of Scripture, which can be known by all, is like looking straight down on the Diamond and beholding it's overall beauty. For those who are born anew and led by the Spirit, they look straight down and see not only the overall beauty of the Diamond but it's radiant light within. As they continue their studies, they begin to see this Diamond through it's many, many facets. Each facet, revealing another meaning and application of the same verse. The whole stone, magnifying the infinite mind of God. No one, will ever see, every revelation within every facet. So it is with the Scriptures.
There is a sense in which I agree with your statement and there is a sense wherein I do not. This is what I am thinking here.
Yes, to have spiritual life and that abundantly, it is in Christ. But I think you are over simplifying this statement. In reality it is very complexed. All that will have spiritual life are in Christ. Jesus Christ is the Executor of His Father's Purpose but the Holy Spirit is the Agency of it. Example: The Father determined to create the Heavens and the Earth. The Son spoke the Words - Let there be light" The Holy Spirit brought about what was spoken.
Therefore, the Words of Christ are life and the Holy Spirit performs that Life. Here are some of the verses that show the Holy Spirit's agency:
Gen 1:2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
While the Holy Spirit is the agent of the new birth - the Words of Christ are both spiritual and life giving. The first is "Positional" - the Holy Spirit carries out what the Father has already determined. The second is "Conditional" - if we walk in the Words of Christ, we will have life abundantly. (Jn.8:12; Rom.6:4; Rom.8:1, 4; Gal.5:16,25; Col.1:10)
Mat_10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life.
Gal_6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Rev_11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
As we see in some of these verses, the Spirit is associated with this life. These passages are all about those who are in Christ, yet we see that the Holy Spirit is the agency of this Life. Just as He was the Agent of Creation working in concert with the Son, as purposed by the Father. Literally, in everything to do with creation and Salvation, all three members of the Godhead are involved.
The important difference, lies in this fact: That the work of the Father and the Holy Spirit, point to and are for the Glory of the Son. Both operate in one accord, out of the Love of the Father for His Son.
Yes, to have spiritual life and that abundantly, it is in Christ. But I think you are over simplifying this statement. In reality it is very complexed. All that will have spiritual life are in Christ. Jesus Christ is the Executor of His Father's Purpose but the Holy Spirit is the Agency of it. Example: The Father determined to create the Heavens and the Earth. The Son spoke the Words - Let there be light" The Holy Spirit brought about what was spoken.
Therefore, the Words of Christ are life and the Holy Spirit performs that Life. Here are some of the verses that show the Holy Spirit's agency:
Gen 1:2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
While the Holy Spirit is the agent of the new birth - the Words of Christ are both spiritual and life giving. The first is "Positional" - the Holy Spirit carries out what the Father has already determined. The second is "Conditional" - if we walk in the Words of Christ, we will have life abundantly. (Jn.8:12; Rom.6:4; Rom.8:1, 4; Gal.5:16,25; Col.1:10)
Mat_10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life.
Gal_6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Rev_11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
As we see in some of these verses, the Spirit is associated with this life. These passages are all about those who are in Christ, yet we see that the Holy Spirit is the agency of this Life. Just as He was the Agent of Creation working in concert with the Son, as purposed by the Father. Literally, in everything to do with creation and Salvation, all three members of the Godhead are involved.
The important difference, lies in this fact: That the work of the Father and the Holy Spirit, point to and are for the Glory of the Son. Both operate in one accord, out of the Love of the Father for His Son.
Gender is a distinction, one from another, not a label. Nationality is a location, state is a location, city is a location - none are labels.
Christian, is a name given to those who follow Christ by others. It is also a Theological term used in discussions to distinguish one group from another. Personally, I don't like using the word - Christian - because it no longer distinguishes the differences between true believers and religionist. All claim to be Christians but few would still be standing, after a Scriptural test of their beliefs.
Christian, is a name given to those who follow Christ by others. It is also a Theological term used in discussions to distinguish one group from another. Personally, I don't like using the word - Christian - because it no longer distinguishes the differences between true believers and religionist. All claim to be Christians but few would still be standing, after a Scriptural test of their beliefs.
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Thanks awelight for the clarification, but since I think we perceive this aspect of the Bible a little differently, I will need to take some time to think through our differences to get a better feel for what you're saying. Anyway, the first thought I have that I'm having a little difficulty with (and going to basics), is, in The Revelation, isn't the bride and the wife one in the same? Otherwise, the bride (also being a wife), would mean that God would have two wives - which would seem to contradict the basic principals of salvation in that two separate salvation plans would be required. Do not all of the elect, Jews and non-Jews alike, comprise the elect, and therefore, are Abraham's seed?
[Rev 21:9 KJV] 9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
[Gal 3:26-29 KJV]
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
[Col 3:10-12 KJV]
10 And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
[Rom 3:21-22 KJV]
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[Rev 21:9 KJV] 9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
[Gal 3:26-29 KJV]
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
[Col 3:10-12 KJV]
10 And have put on the new [man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
[Rom 3:21-22 KJV]
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
P.S. Please let me clarify my prior post to you as in thinking about it, my point wasn't made clearly enough.
Namely, that I perceive God's wife to be the culmination, result and objective of His salvation plan (so to speak). I see the elect, those who were chosen of God - the true church - those made righteous by Christ - to be the sole bride of Christ (in addition to being representative of other things spiritual). So, it seems to me there can only be one bride/wife of God because there is only one salvation plan. Otherwise, a new way of salvation, apart from, and in addition to, God's mercy and grace, as manifested in and by His election, would be required, which I would think not possible. Consequently, a wife that is the nation of Israel, solely because it is the nation of Israel (whatever that term might represent), according to my understanding would not be possible and might therefore be contrary to the fundamental precepts of the Bible.
Hope that makes sense. If I've misunderstood your point, please let me know- thanks
Namely, that I perceive God's wife to be the culmination, result and objective of His salvation plan (so to speak). I see the elect, those who were chosen of God - the true church - those made righteous by Christ - to be the sole bride of Christ (in addition to being representative of other things spiritual). So, it seems to me there can only be one bride/wife of God because there is only one salvation plan. Otherwise, a new way of salvation, apart from, and in addition to, God's mercy and grace, as manifested in and by His election, would be required, which I would think not possible. Consequently, a wife that is the nation of Israel, solely because it is the nation of Israel (whatever that term might represent), according to my understanding would not be possible and might therefore be contrary to the fundamental precepts of the Bible.
Hope that makes sense. If I've misunderstood your point, please let me know- thanks
Why do you keep bringing up angels when the subject of the words of Jesus Christ is about the resurrection?
Why do you refuse His words of teaching?
But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:35-36
Try to stop obsessing with angels long enough to gain some understanding about the resurrection and becoming sons of God; sons of the resurrection.
- nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
JPT
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We are under the New Covenant, not the law of Moses.
Jesus is the Mediator of the New Covenant.
how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Hebrews 9:14-15
- And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant,
This verse is from the New Testament.
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9
Eternal salvation is for those who obey Him.
Please provide a verse that has the phrase eternal security?
JPT