Predestination

[eternally-gratefull]

Galatians 3:24
Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The word tutor here in the greek speaks of a person, like a teacher. who takes you by the hand and guides you where you need to be. No forcing. No dragging. But loving guiding.

If we understand the true meaning of the law. (a symbol) we will repent.If not. It is like we started walking with the tutor. then left because we did not believe or trust the person and did not like where they were taking us.

God will not drag anyone. He did not drag jonah. He helped him along by making Jonah to make a choice or die. But he did not drag him

 

[zone]

thanks for proving my point. One who is dragged is forced. if they wanted to go they would not need to be dragged.

so strangelove. you still want to say you and zone do not believe one is forced?

there are so many posts and threads i'll answer your question here.
you said the word and the action were not DRAGGED.

i said yes it says drag (and i have never said force....you make it about force, not me.):

you asked me to geth the posts were you said no, you were NOT DRAGGED to calvary. (this is stupid anyways...arguing over a word that CLEARLY MEANS WHAT IT SAYS):

what about them? They agree with what I say. God draws people. He does not force them.

Led. Guided directed. The law leads us to Christ. It takes us by the nad and shows us we need a savior. the HS does this. It does not mean one can resist the spirit. I see people do this all the time.

EG: were you called out?
were you dragged to Calvary?

No. I was shown my sin. I was shown my wickedness. Romans 1-3) as God was calling out to me!

And that led me to calvary. because I chose to investigate calvary and see how it would help me.

Calvary and the promises of God led me to faith.

i was not dragged anywhere.

one who is dragged is being taken someplace beyond his will.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

1670. helkó​

to drag​

Original Word: ἑλκύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: helkó
Phonetic Spelling: (hel-koo'-o)
Short Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade
Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.


it most surely says drag(ged), and the word is defined, and does not say FORCED. i have never said it means FORCED.

i was not dragged anywhere.

one who is dragged is being taken someplace beyond his will.

its says you were dragged.
you said you're weren't.

because you hate calvinism but not enough to understand what is meant by irresistable grace one word: 1670. helkó

 

[eternally-gratefull]

there are so many posts and threads i'll answer your question here.
you said the word and the action were not DRAGGED.

No I said dragged is ONE of the defenitions. but it is NOT THE ONLY ONE.

i said yes it says drag (and i have never said force....you make it about force, not me.):

When you drag someone, you are forcing them. If they go willingly, you do not have to drag them. Come on Zone what are you thinking??

you asked me to geth the posts were you said no, you were NOT DRAGGED to calvary. (this is stupid anyways...arguing over a word that CLEARLY MEANS WHAT IT SAYS):

You mean ONE OF THE DEFENITIONS?

Sorry ZOne. I do not pick one definition to prove my point, and ignore the rest. I use the defenition which fits in context wiht scripture. Drag does not fit.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

1670. helkó​

to drag​

Original Word: ἑλκύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: helkó
Phonetic Spelling: (hel-koo'-o)
Short Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade
Definition: I drag, draw, pull, persuade, unsheathe.

And here we go again. Wherever you got this from highlighted ONE POSSIBLE interpretation. what about the rest of them? Why are they in small print??

I drag is only mentioned once.

what about drawing? Drawing does not mean drag. I already showed you how people draw by offering something you need. No dragging done here.

How about pull? You might be able to say it means drag, but not always. What if I am drawning and I am trying to allow someone to save me, so I willingly give him my hands so he can "Pull me up". How is free will removed here

How about pursuade? No dragging here. I can pursude someone to not do something by showing them how dangerous it is. Does it mean they have to listen to me?

Why do you ignore the whole interpretation. and take just the one someone highlighted. which is only ONE POSSIBLE interpretation of the word??

Now do you want to repeat where I said dragged can NOT BE A POSSIBLE INTERPRETATION?

it most surely says drag(ged), and the word is defined, and does not say FORCED. i have never said it means FORCED.

No it must not. That is ONE of the possible interpretations.

Drag means force. WOuld you have to be dragged to something you want to do? I wouldnt. God pursuaded me to come to him, by leading me to where I got to the point I needed to be. He showed me by the law (my tutor) I am guilty. He showed my by his love his sacrificial death. and he showed me by his power and who he is the promise of eternal life is real.

I could have resisted. many do. I did not. I chose to follow him.

its says you were dragged.
you said you're weren't.

because you hate calvinism but not enough to understand what is meant by irresistable grace one word: 1670. helkó

No. That person said I was dragged because he cheated and highlighted one of the many interpretations of the word. And was a sneaky man who placed the other possible interpretations in small print.

 

[shroom2]

so how does a dead man walking, who is by nature a child of wrath, condemned as are the rest of mankind 'make a decision for Jesus'?

Rom 10:17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Before being saved, we were all dead in sin, children of wrath. But we could still ask questions, like "why am I here", "where did I come from", "what is the truth".

Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

 

[jimmydiggs]

ITT: Pottery objecting to the power of the potter.

Romans 9:21
Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

 

[zone]

 

[Strangelove]

You haven't been paying attention.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/29955-predestination-4.html#post531508

Ok I asked you did she force you to love here.

you said:

Nope. I chose to.

So the next question is...

Could you have chosen NOT to love her?

 

[Strangelove]

thanks for proving my point. One who is dragged is forced. if they wanted to go they would not need to be dragged.

so strangelove. you still want to say you and zone do not believe one is forced?

HAVE....YOU.....EVER.....BEEN.....IN....LOVE>>>?????

 

[eternally-gratefull]

HAVE....YOU.....EVER.....BEEN.....IN....LOVE>>>?????

ALREADY BEEN HERE> YOU REFUSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE OR ANSWER OUR RESPONSE I AM NOT REPEATING MYSELF OR SHROOM1

 

[Strangelove]

And here we go again. Wherever you got this from highlighted ONE POSSIBLE interpretation. what about the rest of them? Why are they in small print??

I drag is only mentioned once.

what about drawing? Drawing does not mean drag. I already showed you how people draw by offering something you need. No dragging done here.

How about pull? You might be able to say it means drag, but not always. What if I am drawning and I am trying to allow someone to save me, so I willingly give him my hands so he can "Pull me up". How is free will removed here

How about pursuade? No dragging here. I can pursude someone to not do something by showing them how dangerous it is. Does it mean they have to listen to me?

Why do you ignore the whole interpretation. and take just the one someone highlighted. which is only ONE POSSIBLE interpretation of the word??

Now do you want to repeat where I said dragged can NOT BE A POSSIBLE INTERPRETATION?

What is THE DIFFERENCE man??

Drag or drawn its still GOD THAT DOES IT. And Gods sheep follow Him cuz they LOVE HIM. They will ALWAYS choose Him no matter what (by theyre own free will o'course )

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is THE DIFFERENCE man??

Drag or drawn its still GOD THAT DOES IT. And Gods sheep follow Him cuz they LOVE HIM. They will ALWAYS choose Him no matter what (by theyre own free will o'course )

the difference is. one who is dragged is forced. and can not reject. Free will is removed.

one who is drawn is not forced, and has the ability to reject. Free will is maintained.

 

[Strangelove]

ALREADY BEEN HERE> YOU REFUSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE OR ANSWER OUR RESPONSE I AM NOT REPEATING MYSELF OR SHROOM1

You havnt answered.

Its either yes or no.

So have you ever been in love?

 

[Strangelove]

the difference is. one who is dragged is forced. and can not reject. Free will is removed.

one who is drawn is not forced, and has the ability to reject. Free will is maintained.

When you fall in love with someone what difference does free will make?

You are gonna love her cuz you love her. Simple.

No force just love. Head over heels in love.

I can only think of one reason why you dont get this.

 

[shroom2]

Ok I asked you did she force you to love here.

you said:



So the next question is...

Could you have chosen NOT to love her?

Is this deja vu all over again?

My answer was, and is, yes.

 

[Strangelove]

Is this deja vu all over again?

My answer was, and is, yes.

That doesnt make sense.

Never in recorded history has any man chosen NOT to love a woman that provided every reason for him to love her.

It's NEVER happened.

How can you choose not to love someone that fulfills every reason for you to love them?

Why WOULD you choose not to love her?

Gimme one good reason.

 

[shroom2]

That doesnt make sense.

Never in recorded history has any man chosen NOT to love a woman that provided every reason for him to love her.

It's NEVER happened.

How can you choose not to love someone that fulfills every reason for you to love them?

Why WOULD you choose not to love her?

Gimme one good reason.

I didn't say I would, but I could. I have free will. (you do too)

 

[Strangelove]

I didn't say I would, but I could. I have free will. (you do too)

But you wouldnt. So your free will choice to NOT love her is IRRELEVANT. It's not the issue. Love is the issue.

One of Gods sheep who truly love Him would never choose not to.

Thats all we are saying. It's not gonna happen.

Thats irresistable Grace.

Case closed

G'night. Think about love.

 

[NitzWalsh]

But you wouldnt. So your free will choice to NOT love her is IRRELEVANT. It's not the issue. Love is the issue.

One of Gods sheep who truly love Him would never choose not to.

Thats all we are saying. It's not gonna happen.

Thats irresistable Grace.

Case closed

G'night. Think about love.

Making me rethink my stance on Calvinism.

 

[shroom2]

But you wouldnt. So your free will choice to NOT love her is IRRELEVANT. It's not the issue. Love is the issue.

One of Gods sheep who truly love Him would never choose not to.

Thats all we are saying. It's not gonna happen.

Thats irresistable Grace.

Case closed

G'night. Think about love.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

God's drawing is not irresistible. All me can choose to seek Him, or not. It's called free will.

 

[zone]

That doesnt make sense.

Never in recorded history has any man chosen NOT to love a woman that provided every reason for him to love her.

It's NEVER happened.

How can you choose not to love someone that fulfills every reason for you to love them?

Why WOULD you choose not to love her?

Gimme one good reason.

this is interesting Doc.

i like that part about "fulfills every reason for you to love them?"

even in human terms we should be able to answer that if we have been longing for a spouse, then suddenly "100% ideal" spouse was standing at our door smiling wanting to come in, would we slam the door in his/her face?

doesn't make sense.

now make it about us and JESUS.

?????

what? we are going to be drawn, cajoled, nudged, pulled, however you choose to describe it TO JESUS...what...then we make a choice to NOT LOVE HIM?

i suppose that's possible if, like the man who shows up at the wedding without a garment, we thought Jesus wasn't ENOUGH.

but really! i mean, it's even God who pours the LOVE WE HAVE FOR HIM INTO OUR NEW HEARTS!

Romans 5:5
And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

huh? God draws us, Christ saves us, The Holy Spirit is given to us: and God has poured out HIS LOVE into OUR HEARTS!

like...what?