pretribulationalist?

XGraveX · Jul 26, 2011

The scripture commands us to:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

When a claim is made concerning a doctrine in scripture we must:

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

What rapture(s)/resurrections does the Bible teach for saints? Both pre trib and post trib depending on which group(s) you're talking about. Pre tribulation rapture is for the church age saints. Post tribulation rapture are for the tribulation saints. Both groups have different conditions that the Lord Jesus has given the regarding how an individual is saved during a particular time period. Scripture is very plain concerning these raptures.

Church age saints must obey the gospel of the grace of God to be saved and be raptured(Acts 20:24/1 Corinthians 15:1-4/Romans 10:9). Notice:

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Before the pre tribulation rapture occurs, the following takes place:

2 Thessalonians 2:1 ¶Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 ¶Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Notice "day of Christ" and the cross references in 1 Cor 1:8, 1 Cor 5:5:, 2 Cor 1:14, Philippians 1:6, 10, 2:16. These are specific to the church age. The "day of the Lord" (see all occurrences in the scripture) refers to a time period where the Lord Jesus Christ will come back to execute his vengeance and set up the kingdom of heaven (Matthew chapters 10 and 24, Revelation 20 and so on). Remember concerning how God sees a day:

2 Peter 3:8 ¶But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

which includes the end of the tribulation (Revelation 19) and the end of the millenial reign (Revelation 20:8-10/Malachi 4:1-6) where Jesus Christ executes his wrath again.
Tribulation saints are saved through faith in Jesus Christ and works of the law/keeping the commandments (Revelation 14:12/Matthew 24:13,14). How do we know this is a post tribulation rapture for this group?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Some may think what is cited above is a bunch of "scripture twisting." Reading the scriptures in context will show the divisions of the Bible and how God deals with man in different times/ages. Look at how the Lord Jesus Christ gave his commands to his disciples.

Matthew 26:45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Matthew 26:46 Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.

Notice that no disciple screamed at Jesus saying "HEY YOU CONTRADICTED YOURSELF!!" The Lord Jesus has the authority to supercede his previous command.

Things to ponder and study on:

The kingdom of heaven vs the kingdom of God and the conditions to enter into either one of them

gospel of the kingdom (of heaven) and the gospel of the grace of God

4runner · Jul 26, 2011

XGraveX said:

The scripture commands us to:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

When a claim is made concerning a doctrine in scripture we must:

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

What rapture(s)/resurrections does the Bible teach for saints? Both pre trib and post trib depending on which group(s) you're talking about

Come on bro, you cant start a post quoting 2nd Timothy 2:15 and then say something as unbiblical as the rapture is both pre, and post trib.

peterT · Jul 26, 2011

XGraveX said:

Believers in the church age receive persecution and tribulation but not the great tribulation. I believe in the pre trib rapture for church age saints and post trib rapture for tribulation saints according to scripture.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Galatians 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.

Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

Romans 12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

2 Corinthians 1:4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

2 Corinthians 7:4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.

1 Thessalonians 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Foxe's Book of Martyrs? How about the Albigenses, Waldensians, Hugenots, etc .. all the Christians that the Romans tortured/killed (these are all church age saints) all suffering and dying for the Lord Jesus Christ

“I believe in the pre trib rapture for church age saints and post trib rapture for tribulation saints according to scripture.”

What you believe doesn’t matter that much to us, but belief according to scripture dos.

If funny you can show us verses in the Bible about a post –tribulation coming lots of them. But you haven’t shown us any verses about you doctrine about the pre-tribulation coming?

love from peter

foundthetruth · Jul 26, 2011

XGraveX said:

Sorry, I should have put Christians in quotations.

Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is a true disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ.

XGraveX · Jul 26, 2011

peterT said:

“I believe in the pre trib rapture for church age saints and post trib rapture for tribulation saints according to scripture.”

What you believe doesn’t matter that much to us, but belief according to scripture dos.

If funny you can show us verses in the Bible about a post –tribulation coming lots of them. But you haven’t shown us any verses about you doctrine about the pre-tribulation coming?

love from peter

see 4 posts up

peterT · Jul 26, 2011

4runner said:

Praise the Lord this man has salt, and is shouting from the roof tops.
Matt10:27 What I tell you in darkness, [that] speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, [that] preach ye upon the housetops.
Matthew 5:13 Ye are the SALT of the earth: but if the SALT have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of

4runner · Jul 26, 2011

XGraveX said:

There is no scripture about any pretrib rapture in that post??????

peterT · Jul 26, 2011

XGraveX said:

i see 4 posts up but nothing about a pre-trib coming.
can you breack it down for us just show us the pre-trib coming?

peterT · Jul 26, 2011

4runner said:

lol

love from peter

XGraveX · Jul 26, 2011

The scripture commands us to:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

When a claim is made concerning a doctrine in scripture we must:

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

What rapture(s)/resurrections does the Bible teach for saints? Both pre trib and post trib depending on which group(s) you're talking about. Pre tribulation rapture is for the church age saints. Post tribulation rapture are for the tribulation saints. Both groups have different conditions that the Lord Jesus has given the regarding how an individual is saved during a particular time period. Scripture is very plain concerning these raptures.

Church age saints must obey the gospel of the grace of God to be saved and be raptured(Acts 20:24/1 Corinthians 15:1-4/Romans 10:9). Notice:

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Before the pre tribulation rapture occurs, the following takes place:

2 Thessalonians 2:1 ¶Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 ¶Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Notice "day of Christ" and the cross references in 1 Cor 1:8, 1 Cor 5:5:, 2 Cor 1:14, Philippians 1:6, 10, 2:16. These are specific to the church age. The "day of the Lord" (see all occurrences in the scripture) refers to a time period where the Lord Jesus Christ will come back to execute his vengeance and set up the kingdom of heaven (Matthew chapters 10 and 24, Revelation 20 and so on). Remember concerning how God sees a day:

2 Peter 3:8 ¶But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

which includes the end of the tribulation (Revelation 19) and the end of the millenial reign (Revelation 20:8-10/Malachi 4:1-6) where Jesus Christ executes his wrath again.
Tribulation saints are saved through faith in Jesus Christ and works of the law/keeping the commandments (Revelation 14:12/Matthew 24:13,14). How do we know this is a post tribulation rapture for this group?

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Some may think what is cited above is a bunch of "scripture twisting." Reading the scriptures in context will show the divisions of the Bible and how God deals with man in different times/ages. Look at how the Lord Jesus Christ gave his commands to his disciples.

Matthew 26:45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Matthew 26:46 Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me.

Notice that no disciple screamed at Jesus saying "HEY YOU CONTRADICTED YOURSELF!!" The Lord Jesus has the authority to supercede his previous command.

Things to ponder and study on:

The kingdom of heaven vs the kingdom of God and the conditions that God requires/commands to enter into either one of them

gospel of the kingdom (of heaven) and the gospel of the grace of God

As far as believing that all these scriptures are referring to one rapture (whether you believe it is pre, mid, or, post trib) would insinuate the following:

1. The gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of the grace of God are the same. (please provide scripture if you believe this)

2. Everyone is saved the same way throughout the whole Bible. (please provide scripture)

3. The "day of the Lord" and the "day of Christ" are the same. (please provide scripture)

4. Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ and obeying the 10 commandments in this age to be saved and raptured in this age to be mid/post tribulation raptured. (please provide scripture)

4runner · Jul 27, 2011

XGraveX said:

The scripture commands us to:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

When a claim is made concerning a doctrine in scripture we must:

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

What rapture(s)/resurrections does the Bible teach for saints? Both pre trib and post trib depending on which group(s) you're talking about. Pre tribulation rapture is for the church age saints. Post tribulation rapture are for the tribulation saints. Both groups have different conditions that the Lord Jesus has given the regarding how an individual is saved during a particular time period. Scripture is very plain concerning these raptures.

Church age saints must obey the gospel of the grace of God to be saved and be raptured(Acts 20:24/1 Corinthians 15:1-4/Romans 10:9). Notice:

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Before the pre tribulation rapture occurs, the following takes place:

2 Thessalonians 2:1 ¶Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 ¶Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

everything in these passage describe the post trib return of Christ and rapture of his saints, dead, and alive. Even though you posted it is red, there is still nothing about a pretrib rapture in your post

peterT · Jul 27, 2011

4runner said:

I think another pre-tribulation believer as run off when it comes to the crunch, to show in the bible the pre-tribulation belief

XGraveX · Jul 27, 2011

peterT said:

No one ran off. I was still awaiting answers to these statements:

As far as believing that all these scriptures are referring to one rapture (whether you believe it is pre, mid, or, post trib) would insinuate the following:

1. The gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of the grace of God are the same. (please provide scripture if you believe this)

2. Everyone is saved the same way throughout the whole Bible. (please provide scripture)

3. The "day of the Lord" and the "day of Christ" are the same. (please provide scripture)

4. Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ and obeying the 10 commandments in this age to be saved and raptured in this age to be mid/post tribulation raptured. (please provide scripture)

XGraveX · Jul 27, 2011

4runner said:

Ok you just answered part of the list of statements/assumptions:

As far as believing that all these scriptures are referring to one rapture (whether you believe it is pre, mid, or, post trib) would insinuate the following:

1. The gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of the grace of God are the same. (please provide scripture if you believe this)

By you saying that the pre trib rapture of the saints and the post trib rapture of the trib saints are the same

"everything in these passage (sic) describe the post trib return of Christ"

..you are saying that the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of the grace of God are exactly the same

Matthew 4:23 ¶And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Matthew 9:35 ¶And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

Matthew 10:5 ¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Here's a question. Do you one post trib rapture folks preach the "gospel of the kingdom" for salvation?

2. Everyone is saved the same way throughout the whole Bible. (please provide scripture)

Still awaiting an answer on this one to see if you all agree or not.

3. The "day of the Lord" and the "day of Christ" are the same. (please provide scripture)

Still awaiting an answer on this one to see if you all agree or not.

4. Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ and obeying the 10 commandments in this age to be saved and raptured in this age to be mid/post tribulation raptured. (please provide scripture)

Still awaiting an answer on this one to see if you all agree or not.

peterT · Jul 27, 2011

XGraveX said:

I can answer this, but you answer this first, show us Jesus coming before the tribulation in the bible just scripter. thanks . I thought you had run off

Love from peter

peterT · Jul 28, 2011

XGraveX said:

Remember i see through a glass darkly.

I don’t expect I have all this wright. But I will give it a go.

The RESURRECTION of the just.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the FIRST resurrection:

One view of Jesus coming Immediately after the tribulation. And if we endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. The RESURRECTION of the just.

Matthew 24:3 - and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matt24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Another view of Jesus coming Immediately after the tribulation. The RESURRECTION of the just.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

They prophecy for 1260 days killed by the beast then they are not just raised from the dead BUT are resurrected in to the air in a cloud at the last trumpet after hearing the voice saying Come up hither. Immediately at the end of tribulation. The RESURRECTION of the just.

Now we have are heavenly bodies and we are in the air in a cloud.

NOW we go to Rv19.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

There we are with are heavenly bodies getting are white robes at the marriage supper of the Lamb and we follow Him upon white horses and come back and make war and rule them with a rod of iron, On the people that didn’t take the mark.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great.19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The great tribulation is for 1260 days then we are resurrected.

Daniel 12:12 Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 1335 days. I think we are at the marriage supper of the Lamb for 75 days. Then come back to rule the earth On the people that didn’t take the mark.

Now I don’t expect that I have all this wright but I gave it a go.

Crazylove · Jul 28, 2011

I completely agree!!There's a teacher for us the Holy Spirit. Not once in God's word is a rapture before the tribulation mentioned. Let the Holy Spirit show you the truth. Because many perish from lack of knowledge. Fast, pray, read the word let God tell you if there is a rapture before the tribulation or not? We will either be dead or in caves when His wrath comes according to the word look at Job 14:16 for example. Love you my brothers and sisters pray that you will let God show you and no one else...

peterT · Jul 28, 2011

XGraveX said:

Are you listing to yourself?

You are changing the rules of salvation to help with your pre-trib delusion.

Do you know how many of Gods people have suffered for their faith in times gone by?

Salvation is the same for everyone. The same rules of salvation apply to the man that suffers lots for his faith and to the man that suffers little for his faith.

Are you listing to yourself?

There is one Christian NOT two.

There is one salvation NOT two.

There is one resurrection of the just NOT two.

You made them up from your own mind to help with your pre-trib delusion.

Are you listing to yourself still?

Everyone has to endureth to the end, endureth to the end of there lives.

Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Notes this its not Matt24.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Are you listing to yourself still?

eternally-gratefull · Jul 28, 2011

peterT said:

Talk about someone being delusioned.

Hebrews actually states it is IMPOSSIBLE TO FALL AWAY. Saying it is possible is to mock Christ. because Christ would be forced to come back and be crucified again for the sin that caused them to lose their salvation. Thus this false belief that one could fall away puts christ to open shame because the false belief states his work on the cross was not efficient or complete.

Matt 10: 22 talks about those in the final days of tribulation. It is not talking about spiritual life, but physical life. If you endure to the end without being killed, Executed, or whatever, You will be saved, and enter the kingdom. All others will be killed when Christ returns at the final battle.

4runner · Jul 28, 2011

eternally-gratefull said:

Umm not it doesnt. ''If'' they fall away, certainly doesnt mean ''it is impossible'' to fall away

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