probably the greatest weakness of Hebrew Roots

[MacBestus]

Interesting idea
Reminds me of

JOHN 8:58 Jesus told them, "I can guarantee this truth: Before Abraham was ever born, I am."

Exactly. He has been involved in shaping our faith and its tenents since long before his walk.Of course he wouldnt say "X" is okay today tomorrow its not but the next day it will be again. That is crazy.

 

[Dan_473]

Really.... Are you still trying to find a way to make the law of our Creator cumbersome, silly, or impossible to follow? Do you feel you might be smarter than He? "The verse said :you shall have a place outside the camp." designated by the leaders. If the leaders have set up a place that is where you are to go. It will not be in the mess if its a dug latrine and it will be ocf to a side or seperated by distance buffers in large camps. If not you are to go away from camp with a shovel. Every boy scout knows this. What are you trying to say?

here's what I'm saying

the idea that the place is designated by the leaders... are you relying on a leader to research and make that decision for you? or are you appealing to tradition?

or, did you do your own research and study, and reach that conclusion on your own?

 

[Dan_473]

One half of the Golden Rule. A distillation of the ten Commandments by Messiah. The Commandments themselves a distillation of the law. This is exactly what Peter was getting at with this verse:
14 So then, beloved ones, looking forward to this, do your utmost to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless,
15 and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him,
16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures.
17 You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless,
18 but grow in the favour and knowledge of our Master and Saviour יהושע Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Amĕn.
Paul stated over and over that he kept the law and that we should as well.
But since you REALLY want to put words into his mouth, as Peter warned a certain kind of person might, lets go over his head and see what Messiah had to say about it. Let's look a Matthew 5.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Ok, we have all heard this verse. And we have heard it from those who believe those Messiah Saved through his Grace so we should keep Torah. As well as those who say the law was up to Messiah then it goes away till he comes back, since the bible makes it plain we will follow it in the millennium. So in order to understand it we will look at it closer and then read on so it is not taken out of context.
Let us look at the word the King Jimmy translates as fulfill.
“G4137
Original: πληρόω
Transliteration: plēroō
Phonetic: play-ro'-o
Thayer Definition:
to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
I abound, I am liberally supplied
That’s Thayer…. What about Strongs?
Origin: from G4134
TDNT entry: 10:46,9
Part(s) of speech: Verb
Strong's Definition: From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: X after, (be), fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

Okay. Seems like he is going to make the law MORE complete not less valid. So let us read the verse in context with the verses that follow now that we have a better understanding of the Greek word from the two most respected witnesses in theology. Strong and Thayer.
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.note
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
Oh dear teachers of lawlessness. The Master not only said he came to fill is up with the law. That we could be super righteous. He also TOUGHENED the law. So we have removed Romans as teaching lawlessness and in all actuality using Peter we have removed ALL of Pauls writings. So where do you get that the law is no longer the measure of sin? Sin we are supposed to go all out to remove from our lives to be a fitting dwelling place for His Spirit.
I do not see where you get what Peter calls the delusion of lawlessness…
Notice Messiah does not say keep the law to be saved… Salvation is of Grace. But he does say those who do not keep His law and teach others this lie will not be well respected in His kingdom.
Salvation is by Grace and Reward by Merit. This is from the Master Himself.

It's not lawlessness

GALATIANS 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

 

[MacBestus]

here's what I'm saying

the idea that the place is designated by the leaders... are you relying on a leader to research and make that decision for you? or are you appealing to tradition?

or, did you do your own research and study, and reach that conclusion on your own?

It is plainly stated in the torah we are commanded to study and show ourselves approved. That we are to reflect on upon waking at going to sleep. That we are to pull apart as the bereans did. That we are to bear read in assembly every sabbath. So following the command of our Fatber to Study the. Law of our father is not a tradition..

 

[Dan_473]

did you do your own research and study, and reach that conclusion (about restrooms) on your own?

 

[MacBestus]

It's not lawlessness

GALATIANS 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

so when you read Peters warning about trying to read Paul to prove the Torah is not to be followed, you find Peter wrong and yourself right because a spirit is leading you? And that over rules the Messiahs words. Thats about it, right?

 

[Dan_473]

so when you read Peters warning about trying to read Paul to prove the Torah is not to be followed, you find Peter wrong and yourself right because a spirit is leading you? And that over rules the Messiahs words. Thats about it, right?

not a spirit, the spirit

ROMANS 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God

I am as certain that the spirit leads me as I am that I am a Christian.

 

[MacBestus]

did you do your own research and study, and reach that conclusion (about restrooms) on your own?

My study and thousands of years of others study as well as a plain reading f the text. . And not even the most leagalistic Hascidic. Holds your view... So what are you trying to say

 

[MacBestus]

The Spirit does not lead us away from Messiahs teaching... I wwill pray for your deliverance.

 

[Dan_473]

My study and thousands of years of others study as well as a plain reading f the text. . And not even the most leagalistic Hascidic. Holds your view... So what are you trying to say

if you are appealing to thousands of years of others study, then you are different the roots folks I've interacted with on this forum.

is the phrase ' designated by the leaders' in one of the common translations?

 

[MacBestus]

dan. I must thank you. You have illustrated the absurdity of lawlessness completely. I have presented you with text that was whole and in context. You have replied with out of context lines. I gave you proof that you were mistaking Pauls words from his own and Peters writings. You ignore the apostles and double down on the very twisting talked about. I have given you the Messiahs own words and you have ignored them. Anyone reading this later will know you preach a non biblical Messiah.

 

[MacBestus]

if you are appealing to thousands of years of others study, then you are different the roots folks I've interacted with on this forum.

is the phrase ' designated by the leaders' in one of the common translations?

I do not know who you interacted with, but every HRM person I have ever met relies on the researchers that have come before (unless they are fluent in paleo hebrew, ancient Hebrew, aramaic, and koine greek.

Lets look at the verse in the King James

12 Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad:

13 And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:

There is a designated place. It is plain especially in an Army. And since we know this was directed at the folks iin the Exodus and we also know there wete a great many leaders. And a Great many people it is apparent. In addition. Yhere are no Jewish groups who run outside with a shovel. And they love to add hedge laws as we have seen... And they have been studying this book forever.

 

[MacBestus]

Wecan also tell this is a temporary camp by the use of the term abroad. When you have to ease yourself while traveling.

 

[MacBestus]

I posted this before.. You should watch this video on you tube. It is eye opening to people who have never read the whole bible. I am not getting anything from him and the videos arent slick. But the pure verse and research are wonderful. The kind of plain talk we would expect from thenapostlea as they were mostly blue collar folk

Watch it no matter which way you come down on the HRM

https://youtu.be/vxiRmWqMIeE

 

[Dan_473]

The Spirit does not lead us away from Messiahs teaching... I wwill pray for your deliverance.

I like prayers about me for any reason. Thank you!

 

[Yonah]

I've asked you a few short, direct questions.

If you feel pain when considering them, it's probably because you realize on some level that your beliefs don't hold together, and that you can't really discuss them openly.


I don't think Christians trying to keep the Law is a "let's just all get along" situation.

GALATIANS 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
GALATIANS 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

"and you feel pain when considering them" that is presumptous to say the least , tell me exactly how can you know what I feel do you have some ability apart from anyone else? you claim to know how I feel yet you have NEVER met me, either your extremely prideful or extremely foolish , either way you AND OTHERS WHOI SEEM TO THINK THEY CAN DESCERN THE HEARTS OF OTHERS ARE BEING THE PHARISEES YOU SO OFTEN CLAIM NOT TO BE.

 

[Dan_473]

"and you feel pain when considering them" that is presumptous to say the least , tell me exactly how can you know what I feel do you have some ability apart from anyone else? you claim to know how I feel yet you have NEVER met me, either your extremely prideful or extremely foolish , either way you AND OTHERS WHOI SEEM TO THINK THEY CAN DESCERN THE HEARTS OF OTHERS ARE BEING THE PHARISEES YOU SO OFTEN CLAIM NOT TO BE.

what I wrote was

'If you feel pain when considering them'

it was If not And

 

[Dan_473]

I do not know who you interacted with, but every HRM person I have ever met relies on the researchers that have come before (unless they are fluent in paleo hebrew, ancient Hebrew, aramaic, and koine greek.

Lets look at the verse in the King James

12 Thou shalt have a place also without the camp, whither thou shalt go forth abroad:

13 And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee:

There is a designated place. It is plain especially in an Army. And since we know this was directed at the folks iin the Exodus and we also know there wete a great many leaders. And a Great many people it is apparent. In addition. Yhere are no Jewish groups who run outside with a shovel. And they love to add hedge laws as we have seen... And they have been studying this book forever.

My impressions
The roots folks I've met here use researchers only to get definitions of words.

They want to do exactly what the scriptures say, nothing beyond.

 

[Yonah]

what I wrote was

'If you feel pain when considering them'

it was If not And

sorry I misread and so you know I'm not in the Hebrew roots camp either, however just because the majority interpret text in scripture a certain way does not make it correct, and to think those who chose to obey certain commands are all in the same group , or all believe the same way is a short sighted and limited way of seeing it. somehow there seems to be this mistaken impression that just because one chooses to obey the direct commands given are somehow denying the Savior or trying to effect their own salvation, is equally short sighted. I realize that tragically some attempt to do this but not all, and anothers walk with the Almighty cannot be properly or exclusively assessed by what they believe without knowing that person and what they DO and who they are. each has a personal and intimate relationship with our beloved Savior when we truly walk with Him in humble submission to His authority in response to His matchless love, we all express our love back to him in personal ways and to judge someones walk without all the information is counterproductive to peaceful exchange of beliefs and the fostering of unity in the bond of peace, this requires humility which many times I am lacking, so please accept my apology and know I meant no malice but rather was responding without more carefully reading what you posted. shalom.

 

[MacBestus]

My impressions
The roots folks I've met here use researchers only to get definitions of words.

They want to do exactly what the scriptures say, nothing beyond.

I am not sure what the problem is in following scripture... Or what we should be doing beyond scripture. Please tell me more. I don't understand what your issue is here.