problem related to praying in tongues
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"Is a person allowed to present their reasons why they do not think God is a Trinity?"
Many have and do. However, to tell those it is "Idolatry" to believe the concept of the Trinity seen in the Bible does not present reasons. It is attacking those who see it in the word of God, known as the "Eternal Godhead", in which the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible but is a biblical concept that is seen in scripture. There are many teaching where the word for it is not mentioned in the bible. they are Theological terms such as :
Rapture
Trinity
Kenosis
Christology
Pneumatology
Soteriology
Ecclesiology
Just to name a few
Many have and do. However, to tell those it is "Idolatry" to believe the concept of the Trinity seen in the Bible does not present reasons. It is attacking those who see it in the word of God, known as the "Eternal Godhead", in which the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible but is a biblical concept that is seen in scripture. There are many teaching where the word for it is not mentioned in the bible. they are Theological terms such as :
Rapture
Trinity
Kenosis
Christology
Pneumatology
Soteriology
Ecclesiology
Just to name a few
Sorry, there was a typo:
Again, Jesus Christ himself said that his God, the God he has and the God he ascended to (John 20:17) was "the only true God" (John 17:3).
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee [Father] the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Again, Jesus Christ himself said that his God, the God he has and the God he ascended to (John 20:17) was "the only true God" (John 17:3).
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee [Father] the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
we don't think God is a Trinity.
The doctrine of the Trinity means that there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons — the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Stated differently, God is one in essence and three in person. These definitions express three crucial truths: (1) the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons, (2) each Person is fully God, (3) there is only one God.
There are many scriptures to support this understanding.
The doctrine of the Trinity means that there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons — the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Stated differently, God is one in essence and three in person. These definitions express three crucial truths: (1) the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons, (2) each Person is fully God, (3) there is only one God.
There are many scriptures to support this understanding.
Where is that in the Bible?
Where?
There is no reason to associate Jesus' words ego eimi with Exodus 3:14. The formerly blind man used the exact same words just a few verses later:
John 9:9 Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am [ego eimi] he.
They are simply words of self-identification. Jesus Christ was saying he was the guy, he was the Messiah promised since before Abraham. If we do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, we cannot be saved.
"For example, since the Father sent the Son into the world (John 3:16), he cannot be the same person as the Son. Likewise, after the Son returned to the Father (John 16:10), the Father and the Son sent the Holy Spirit into the world (John 14:26; Acts 2:33). Therefore, the Holy Spirit must be distinct from the Father and the Son." (desiring God.org2006)
You don't?
Right. That's what you believe, right?
Again, that's the Trinity. That's what you think God is, right?
It seems to me that you think God is a Trinity...
So Trinitarians say... They may support it, but do they TEACH it?
Again, I believe the doctrine of the Trinity is read INTO the Bible, it does not come FROM the Bible.
Right. That's what you believe, right?
Again, that's the Trinity. That's what you think God is, right?
It seems to me that you think God is a Trinity...
So Trinitarians say... They may support it, but do they TEACH it?
Again, I believe the doctrine of the Trinity is read INTO the Bible, it does not come FROM the Bible.
A finger wrote it did not speak. the words written were as we see it in Daniel.
DANIEL 5
5 In the same hour the fingers of a man’s hand appeared and wrote opposite the lampstand on the plaster of the wall of the king’s palace; and the king saw the part of the hand that wrote. 6 Then the king’s countenance changed, and his thoughts troubled him, so that the joints of his hips were loosened and his knees knocked against each other. 7 The king cried [b]aloud to bring in the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers. The king spoke, saying to the wise men of Babylon, “Whoever reads this writing, and tells me its interpretation, shall be clothed with purple and have a chain of gold around his neck; and he shall be the third ruler in the kingdom.” 8 Now all the king’s wise men came, but they could not read the writing, or make known to the king its interpretation.
11 There is a man in your kingdom in whom is the Spirit of the Holy God. And in the days of your [d]father, light and understanding and wisdom, like the wisdom of the gods, were found in him; and King Nebuchadnezzar your father—your father the king—made him chief of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans, and soothsayers. 12 Inasmuch as an excellent spirit, knowledge, understanding, interpreting dreams, solving riddles, and explaining enigmas were found in this Daniel, whom the king named Belteshazzar, now let Daniel be called, and he will give the interpretation.”
Now if you can read the writing and make known to me its interpretation, you shall be clothed with purple and have a chain of gold around your neck, and shall be the third ruler in the kingdom.”
17 Then Daniel answered, and said before the king, “Let your gifts be for yourself, and give your rewards to another; yet I will read the writing to the king, and make known to him the interpretation. (Translation)
25 “And this is the inscription that was written:
MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.
DANIEL 5
5 In the same hour the fingers of a man’s hand appeared and wrote opposite the lampstand on the plaster of the wall of the king’s palace; and the king saw the part of the hand that wrote. 6 Then the king’s countenance changed, and his thoughts troubled him, so that the joints of his hips were loosened and his knees knocked against each other. 7 The king cried [b]aloud to bring in the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers. The king spoke, saying to the wise men of Babylon, “Whoever reads this writing, and tells me its interpretation, shall be clothed with purple and have a chain of gold around his neck; and he shall be the third ruler in the kingdom.” 8 Now all the king’s wise men came, but they could not read the writing, or make known to the king its interpretation.
11 There is a man in your kingdom in whom is the Spirit of the Holy God. And in the days of your [d]father, light and understanding and wisdom, like the wisdom of the gods, were found in him; and King Nebuchadnezzar your father—your father the king—made him chief of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans, and soothsayers. 12 Inasmuch as an excellent spirit, knowledge, understanding, interpreting dreams, solving riddles, and explaining enigmas were found in this Daniel, whom the king named Belteshazzar, now let Daniel be called, and he will give the interpretation.”
Now if you can read the writing and make known to me its interpretation, you shall be clothed with purple and have a chain of gold around your neck, and shall be the third ruler in the kingdom.”
17 Then Daniel answered, and said before the king, “Let your gifts be for yourself, and give your rewards to another; yet I will read the writing to the king, and make known to him the interpretation. (Translation)
25 “And this is the inscription that was written:
MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.
Correct. But you're assuming the Son is God. The Father is God, the Son is Jesus Christ, God's anointed.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
I do not see "returned" there.
After Jesus' ascension, he received from God the promised gift of holy spirit, and the day of Pentecost was the first time it was "poured out" to people.
Absolutely.
God, the Father, is God.
Jesus Christ is the Son of God, His human Messiah.
The gift of holy spirit was received by Jesus Christ from God, and is being given to people who choose to believe the gospel.
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
I do not see "returned" there.
After Jesus' ascension, he received from God the promised gift of holy spirit, and the day of Pentecost was the first time it was "poured out" to people.
Absolutely.
God, the Father, is God.
Jesus Christ is the Son of God, His human Messiah.
The gift of holy spirit was received by Jesus Christ from God, and is being given to people who choose to believe the gospel.
No, there is no debate. The Jews in John 8 are debating with Jesus about who He claims to be. The Jews know who God is, they know who Abraham is, but they are not understanding who Jesus is.
31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.[b]”
39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.
“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[c] do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”
“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
Jesus’ Claims About Himself
48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”
49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”
52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”
54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
I AM = Jesus claiming to be God!! THAT is why they tried to stone Him.
I and the Father are one.”
31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. 32But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”
33“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”
The Jesus you say you believe in claimed to be God! Just proven right here in the Word, nothing added or taken away. You either believe Jesus or you're saying He's a liar. Period.
20 Then David said to the whole assembly, “Praise the Lord your God.” So they all praised the Lord, the God of their fathers; they bowed down, prostrating themselves before the Lord and the king.
“And David went on to say to all the congregation: “Bless, now, Jehovah YOUR God.” And all the congregation proceeded to bless Jehovah the God of their forefathers and bow low and prostrate themselves to Jehovah and to the king,” (1 Chron, 29:20, NWT).
No, David was not worshiped. David, the same as Paul would not have accepted worship which belongs to God alone.
The very name is God with us. Jesus claimed to be God, He accepted worship due only to God.
I'm assuming you read the Bible for yourself? I have stated Scripture above that says exactly what I said. So either you're denying the Word, you haven't read it for yourself, or you're part of a cult that denies the Word. Either way, the verses are above. Either you believe the Bible is true or you don't there is no in between. And this is where error and heresy come in, when people deny the plain black and red words of the Bible. You cannot call yourself a Christian and deny the deity of Christ.
31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.[b]”
39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.
“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[c] do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”
“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”
Jesus’ Claims About Himself
48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”
49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”
52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”
54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
I AM = Jesus claiming to be God!! THAT is why they tried to stone Him.
I and the Father are one.”
31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him. 32But Jesus responded, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone Me?”
33“We are not stoning You for any good work,” said the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because You, who are a man, declare Yourself to be God.”
The Jesus you say you believe in claimed to be God! Just proven right here in the Word, nothing added or taken away. You either believe Jesus or you're saying He's a liar. Period.
20 Then David said to the whole assembly, “Praise the Lord your God.” So they all praised the Lord, the God of their fathers; they bowed down, prostrating themselves before the Lord and the king.
“And David went on to say to all the congregation: “Bless, now, Jehovah YOUR God.” And all the congregation proceeded to bless Jehovah the God of their forefathers and bow low and prostrate themselves to Jehovah and to the king,” (1 Chron, 29:20, NWT).
No, David was not worshiped. David, the same as Paul would not have accepted worship which belongs to God alone.
The very name is God with us. Jesus claimed to be God, He accepted worship due only to God.
I'm assuming you read the Bible for yourself? I have stated Scripture above that says exactly what I said. So either you're denying the Word, you haven't read it for yourself, or you're part of a cult that denies the Word. Either way, the verses are above. Either you believe the Bible is true or you don't there is no in between. And this is where error and heresy come in, when people deny the plain black and red words of the Bible. You cannot call yourself a Christian and deny the deity of Christ.