PROPHETS: A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE

[posthuman]

I find the humility of AMOS telling as opposed to those who boast of being a prophet....

Amos...I was no prophet nor the son of a prophet..........Amos 7:14

Those who boast of being a prophet are suspect in the very minimum.....

Amos' attitude speaks volumes. also nowhere in the text of Jonah does he ever call himself a prophet, but he only said

"I am a Hebrew and I worship the LORD, the God of heaven, who made the sea and the dry land."
(Jonah 1:9)​

the other thing about Amos is that he was rejected & told to go prophesy somewhere else because he was bothering the nobles. we need to work to not find ourselves having that attitude as well as to be humbly considering ourselves nothing but the least of servants.
at the same time, it is good and right for us to be vigilant because even in the 1st century there were 'many' false prophets, and those have only multiplied. even a true man of God can be led astray by them! (( in re: 1 Kings 13 ))

this story in 1 Kings 13 may be especially poignant, as the one that the word of the Lord really came is called a "man of God" but the liar was called "prophet." this man who prophesied truly didn't claim a title for himself; he simply spoke what the Lord had given him to say - so the scripture calls him a man of God.

it seems like a very pertinent question to ask, whether it is right for us to claim titles for ourselves, or vain. i know Paul called himself a slave and bondservant of Christ more often than anything else, but in other writings, defending those who said he wasn't called by God, he reminded them of the sign gifts he had from God that demonstrated his calling, and how that the other apostles all accepted and vouched for him. even there though, he says the ones calling themselves great made him make a fool of himself by giving him cause to boast, and calls himself "nothing"

I have made a fool of myself, but you drove me to it. I ought to have been commended by you, for I am not in the least inferior to the "super-apostles," even though I am nothing.
(2 Corinthians 12:11)​

so where in the scripture can we justify calling ourselves by some title that commands authority? anywhere?
serious question.

 

[posthuman]

In this self-confident boasting I am not talking as the Lord would, but as a fool.
(2 Corinthians 11:17)​

 

[convallaria]

Convallaria and I have not boasted about anything. We have not demanded that people should listen to us. Yet there are those who are either threatened, fearful, or jealous and see us as prophets who need to be killed. We have not spoken curses against these people as they have cursed us. Anyone can check all the thread we have posted on and see that we have been maligned just because of who we are. We have not launched these vicious attacks. People have created straw men from their imagination and placed lying words in our mouth we didn't say. What kind of person does this? If people want to disagree with us, that's just fine. However, disagreeing with us is not where it stops and they seek to slur our character. Instead of allowing peace to prevail they spit venom. We have stood up against the bulling and false allegations in self defense. We are not going to lay down and let them slay us. Paul stated his office was not accepted by others even in his time, so it would not be surprising that people today would have the same rejections of the Apostles and Prophets of God.

So we match the biblical perspective about prophets, because we are hated without cause just like all before us.
.

Amen Russell.

The posts are all here for others to see. If they feel they are being swayed by someone with an "agenda", it would be a good plan to line up all their posts together from each source and read them...then it will become clear just who DOES have an agenda and who IS manipulating.

The body of Christ works together and the prophets have a particular role in that working. If we see something is wrong, it has to be said as clearly as possible so that things can be corrected. If we have people fighting against that process constantly and making the prophets the bad guys in the process, we have the added worry that they aren't as safe as they think they are, no matter how much they claim otherwise.

Luke 6:45
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

jb brought a good resource to read, as he has done on other threads, praise God. It should not make us angry when someone adds something to the discussion that helps people, it should make us glad. What we do here is not about building our own little empires and beating everyone who doesn't agree with the OP: we have a collective command to speak the same thing, and that can only happen if we know the truth that God speaks, as opposed to private perception and interpretation.

 

[prodigal]

[h=2]1 Corinthians 4:15[/h][h=3]King James Version (KJV)[/h] For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

 

[pottersclay]

I'm just a simple man of God. I know only the simple things and have come for fellowship and instructions on the things that I yet do not understand.
I am told by the word of God not to lay hands suddenly on any man but to test all spirits.
I don't fear the Lord's rebuke on this matter as I am obedient to his word.
If one says he holds the office of a prophet let him speak of something that will pass quickly for all to see, or speak something that is known only by the Lord and that person.
If this is done then you will be received as the Lord has sent you.
I test not God but the spirit that says it is sent by God.
With my eyes and ears I have not seen any fruits thus far so I humble myself in obedience and ask a simple thing as I am to guard myself from a false thing.

 

[ember]

The ministry of the prophet (and apostle) is still in effect today. But the New Testament prophet is different from the Old Testament prophet. This is where people get confused. Nobody today is saying "90 days and New York will be destroyed!". Nobody today is giving revelation in the sense that Paul, Peter, James, John, and Jude did in writing epistles to the church. But people can still receive revelation that is relevant to the hearer and speak forth prophetically as the Spirit wills. Read Prophets and Prophesying for more insight.

and...sir Lancelot...that is where you are regretfully wrong!

there are literally hundreds, if not several thousand propets, right now, prophesying the destruction of the eastern North American seaboard...and I don't think that is going to happen and I am not a prophet

Otherwise I agree with your post

But people can still receive revelation that is relevant to the hearer and speak forth prophetically as the Spirit wills

I agree...I've had it happen...but with the distinction that I think words of knowledge sometimes are mistaken for prophecy...

 

[ember]

following is a quote from the link supplied by Lancelot...please pay attention to the first sentence all you OT prophet types, because this sentence actually agrees with scripture

The prophet’s ministry in the New Testament is not a continuation of the ministry of the Old Testament prophet.

It began along with all of the other ministry gifts given by Jesus after His resurrection and ascension. Between the Old and New Covenants there were 400 silent years. The only prophet during that time was John the Baptist, and his ministry consisted almost exclusively of preaching repentance and baptizing the repentant. He never made any prophecies that we know of other than proclaiming the coming of Messiah. This signaled a break from the prophet’s ministry under the Old Covenant.

I would just add that no prophecy that is recorded...there may or may not have been silence from heaven IMO

 

[ember]

convallaria

This comes up time and time again. Someone who made an unkind remark to Russ (who also is constantly trying to help others on here) said that it was the pot calling the kettle black, meaning I am the unkind one. Again, please show me where I have been unkind without the noise of others' accusations ringing in your ears? Just bring the evidence.

that was not even said in this thread...I know which thread that was said in...

you tell others to go back to where they were offended and repent...when are you going to take your own advice?

 

[ember]

Some may have a 'word' for someone in order to help them see either the error of their ways before they fall flat on their face or to encourage them on the path that the Lord has set their feet on by giving them sort of a 'word' of encouragement. Being verified in your walk is so helpful and encouraging.

I agree...but I do not think that fits the biblical def of prophecy...I believe it is a word of knowedge...

 

[dcontroversal]

Amos' attitude speaks volumes. also nowhere in the text of Jonah does he ever call himself a prophet, but he only said

"I am a Hebrew and I worship the LORD, the God of heaven, who made the sea and the dry land."
(Jonah 1:9)​

the other thing about Amos is that he was rejected & told to go prophesy somewhere else because he was bothering the nobles. we need to work to not find ourselves having that attitude as well as to be humbly considering ourselves nothing but the least of servants.
at the same time, it is good and right for us to be vigilant because even in the 1st century there were 'many' false prophets, and those have only multiplied. even a true man of God can be led astray by them! (( in re: 1 Kings 13 ))

this story in 1 Kings 13 may be especially poignant, as the one that the word of the Lord really came is called a "man of God" but the liar was called "prophet." this man who prophesied truly didn't claim a title for himself; he simply spoke what the Lord had given him to say - so the scripture calls him a man of God.

it seems like a very pertinent question to ask, whether it is right for us to claim titles for ourselves, or vain. i know Paul called himself a slave and bondservant of Christ more often than anything else, but in other writings, defending those who said he wasn't called by God, he reminded them of the sign gifts he had from God that demonstrated his calling, and how that the other apostles all accepted and vouched for him. even there though, he says the ones calling themselves great made him make a fool of himself by giving him cause to boast, and calls himself "nothing"

I have made a fool of myself, but you drove me to it. I ought to have been commended by you, for I am not in the least inferior to the "super-apostles," even though I am nothing.
(2 Corinthians 12:11)​

so where in the scripture can we justify calling ourselves by some title that commands authority? anywhere?
serious question.

I agree for sure.......and like I said...those who call themselves a prophet or claim such a title are suspect in the very minimum......

 

[dcontroversal]

I find the humility of AMOS telling as opposed to those who boast of being a prophet....

Amos...I was no prophet nor the son of a prophet..........Amos 7:14

Those who boast of being a prophet are suspect in the very minimum.....

I have noticed that no one on here who claims to be a prophet has addressed this biblical proof of humility.....

 

[ember]

a la russell:

So we match the biblical perspective about prophets, because we are hated without cause just like all before us.

I see. People do not support your unbiblical claims and so you pull the 'it's happening just like the Bible says' card

The thing is, you are not a biblical prophet and you do not operate according to biblical NT references and you are not an exception wherein God suddenly decided to give you free rein to curse others who disagree with you

You know, the Bible says we are to humble ourselves before the Almighty...you are not the Almighty but, and this I say in all seriousness and with the facts of your posts staring us all in the face...you do seem to have a God complex

without exception, all self proclaiming prophets appear to believe they are an exception and operate in a jurisdiction outside of the laws of God...that, is called fantasy

 

[ember]

absolutely. Paul does say that speaking in a unknown tongue edifies the one speaking - but not the listener, unless it's interpreted. but he also explains that what edification is never separate from understanding - if you are proud to be speaking in a way that even you do not understand, how can you say that you're edifying yourself? so when he says 'unknown' here, isn't it unknown to the hearer, not the speaker? the Spirit groans in us with words that can't be spoken, but we understand, even though we can't express it. this is not the same as purposefully being unintelligible, and i do sincerely hope that no one here who claims to speak in tongues is talking about the "method" outlined in all those links, which is nothing more than sowing confusion, because we will reap what we sow.

So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding;
I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.
(1 Corinthians 14:15)
​

haven't checked out the links but I am somewhat irritated by their continued appearance...exception of Lancelots which I find I can agree with pretty much...

people need to dig for the truth themself hence the title of this op...God WANTS us to question Him! It's allowed!

and I'm not patting you on the back here, but this is a really great post IMO!

 

[ember]

POSTHUMAN:

it seems like a very pertinent question to ask, whether it is right for us to claim titles for ourselves, or vain. i know Paul called himself a slave and bondservant of Christ more often than anything else, but in other writings, defending those who said he wasn't called by God, he reminded them of the sign gifts he had from God that demonstrated his calling, and how that the other apostles all accepted and vouched for him. even there though, he says the ones calling themselves great made him make a fool of himself by giving him cause to boast, and calls himself "nothing"

I have made a fool of myself, but you drove me to it. I ought to have been commended by you, for I am not in the least inferior to the "super-apostles," even though I am nothing.
(2 Corinthians 12:11)

so where in the scripture can we justify calling ourselves by some title that commands authority? anywhere?
serious question.

You know, even if it was OK to toot your own horn? a prophet would have to be proven first...and the danger in tooting, is going to be pride and a build up of exhaust fumes that nobody wants to hang with

 

[ember]

Amen Russell.

The posts are all here for others to see. If they feel they are being swayed by someone with an "agenda", it would be a good plan to line up all their posts together from each source and read them...then it will become clear just who DOES have an agenda and who IS manipulating.

The body of Christ works together and the prophets have a particular role in that working. If we see something is wrong, it has to be said as clearly as possible so that things can be corrected. If we have people fighting against that process constantly and making the prophets the bad guys in the process, we have the added worry that they aren't as safe as they think they are, no matter how much they claim otherwise.

Luke 6:45
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

jb brought a good resource to read, as he has done on other threads, praise God. It should not make us angry when someone adds something to the discussion that helps people, it should make us glad. What we do here is not about building our own little empires and beating everyone who doesn't agree with the OP: we have a collective command to speak the same thing, and that can only happen if we know the truth that God speaks, as opposed to private perception and interpretation.

apparently we have some unproclaimed prophets here...in the NT sense...and they have wisely allowed God to demonstrate that fact by speaking from the word and proving you words false in the simplicity of the presentation of that which is true

not speaking of myself...but God sure does speak to me...always in His word, deep into my spirit, and He leads in ways no boasting would give credence to

convallaria...I don't know who follows you back in Wales? but we are not impressed

I don't know jb...and nothing personal? but why is it you folks just cannot allow the word to speak for itself? why is it that you appear to have to control everything? control is not a gift of the Holy Spirit...it is rather the sign of an insecure person who absolutley MUST have others constantly reassure them that they are great...in their own eyes it would seem

you are basically putting out adds here...you have not joined the conversation because it does not agree with you...actually you do not seem to agree with it..and yet it is based on scripture...not all your russells notes or your link notes or your own conva must be right all the time notes

honestly! you might be helped if you would just accept what others here constantly say to you...no one wants to hurt you but you constantly accuse us of lying and russell appears to think we reject him...maybe it is the other way round?

we just reject your unbiblical teaching and I for one do not apologize for that

did you come here with the idea to teach? wrong format...this is a DISCUSSION forum..and there have been some pretty good things noted in this thread...but you just keep advertising yourself...that's kind of selfish, don't you think?

 

[convallaria]

a la russell:


I see. People do not support your unbiblical claims and so you pull the 'it's happening just like the Bible says' card

The thing is, you are not a biblical prophet and you do not operate according to biblical NT references and you are not an exception wherein God suddenly decided to give you free rein to curse others who disagree with you

You know, the Bible says we are to humble ourselves before the Almighty...you are not the Almighty but, and this I say in all seriousness and with the facts of your posts staring us all in the face...you do seem to have a God complex

without exception, all self proclaiming prophets appear to believe they are an exception and operate in a jurisdiction outside of the laws of God...that, is called fantasy

OK ember please listen. You have said that you are NOT a prophet, correct? So that means you do not have the authority to speak on prophets since authority is given to prophets and apostles in the church, and you do not have first hand experience of such. But however, you do believe in prophets I think, so by whose authority do you say who is a false prophet and who is true?


1 Cor 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

 

[pottersclay]

well the proof is in the pudding........popcorn anyone?......

 

[ember]

OK ember please listen. You have said that you are NOT a prophet, correct? So that means you do not have the authority to speak on prophets since authority is given to prophets and apostles in the church, and you do not have first hand experience of such. But however, you do believe in prophets I think, so by whose authority do you say who is a false prophet and who is true?


1 Cor 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

uh, no offence, but haven't I made it clear enough I am not listening?

Jesus said:

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;


BAAAAAA!

 

[prodigal]

...

galations 6:1

1Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.

 

[convallaria]

uh, no offence, but haven't I made it clear enough I am not listening?

YES that is precisely the problem.